Ireland v. New Zealand build-up thread

BoardsMember

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I'd drop Bowe and bring in Trimble personally.

Good Lord, there's been some hysterical stuff here but that just about takes the biscuit

Utah_Saint

BoardsMember wrote: »

Good Lord, there's been some hysterical stuff here but that just about takes the biscuit

I think its a fair comment re: Trimble for Bowe....Bowe has been poor and nothing suggests that will change against the AB's. Trimble and McF will put in a proper shift - but i would agree they offer a little less going forward.

Artful_Badger

BoardsMember wrote: »

Good Lord, there's been some hysterical stuff here but that just about takes the biscuit

Well McFadden is one of the few who is playing well so I think he should start at 11. Bowe hasnt been performing, he didnt perform against Samoa or Aus and we should be past the need to keep starting players hoping they come good when we have viable options in the squad, I think a change needs to be made and I think Fitz or Trimble would offer more than Bowe currently is. I also think Trimble is ahead of Fitz in the reckoning so I'd start Trimble ahead of Bowe.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BoardsMember wrote: »

Good Lord, there's been some hysterical stuff here but that just about takes the biscuit

Really? Bowe is top class but he has been far from that in the last two games. He was at sea defensively the other night, he certainly could have no complaints if he was dropped

Tox56

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I think its a fair comment re: Trimble for Bowe....Bowe has been poor and nothing suggests that will change against the AB's. Trimble and McF will put in a proper shift - but i would agree they offer a little less going forward.

I think a little less is an understatement if Bowe plays anywhere near his best, and although Trimble offers physicality in defence his decision making is suspect, and NZ would ruthlessly exploit that. We have to keep faith with Bowe for now

durkadurka

Except Ferg has a broken bone in his hand.

We're rightly fecked for wingers.

phog

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Really? Bowe is top class but he has been far from that in the last two games. He was at sea defensively the other night, he certainly could have no complaints if he was dropped

The same could be said for almost the entire squad over the two games, new game plan aside none have really played at their peak.

ssaye2

durkadurka wrote: »

Except Ferg has a broken bone in his hand.

We're rightly fecked for wingers.

b********************

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

Except Ferg has a broken bone in his hand.

We're rightly fecked for wingers.

Ah here. Any word on Keith?

phog

Tox56 wrote: »

I think a little less is an understatement if Bowe plays anywhere near his best, and although Trimble offers physicality in defence his decision making is suspect, and NZ would ruthlessly exploit that. We have to keep faith with Bowe for now

This is the 3rd of a series of three games, he's been poor in two. If he's not to be dropped for the remaining game when should a player with poor form be dropped?

.ak

bilston wrote: »

You've been saying this quite a bit since Saturday and I think you are really wrong. Saying that his 4 line breaks have clouded people's judgement is a bit strange given that obviously making four line breaks and making the second higheat nunber of metres of anyone in the team is bound to get people saying he played well...because he did...!

Singling him out for his defence when the entire backline were a disgrace defensively is also a bit odd. Maybe I do you a disservice ak by saying you have singled him out but I have noticed you labouring this point quite a bit since Sat.

Personally I blame the system not the individuals. A drift defence usually works on defenders moving up and pushing out, on Sat they just pushed out and gave Australia too much time on the ball. Not just Marshall but the whole team.

Marshall himself said afterwards it was a system he wasnt used to, so I say given he gave us an attacking.outlet in the midfield that has been missing for a couple of years let him have time to get used to the system.

Still you are probably right, D'Arcy will most likely come back in on Sat but.not because Marshall.played badly but because Schmidt will want more experience in the 10/12 axis with Jackson or Madigan at 10.

Not at all. I think as a team we were poor defensively, but yet I see the reasoning behind that; the team is playing to a new defensive system they wouldn't be used to. Some players will adapt to that quicker, but the newer guys like Marshall and Henshaw and the guys that aren't used to Schmidt like Bowe and POM had lapses in defence.

This is no sleight on Marshall and I apologise if you think I'm 'labouring a point' against him. I simply made the exact same point you did; He's not used to the system.

He's our future 12, and possibly could be the fulcrum of our attack come 2014, but let's not get misty eyed yet. I'd like to think I can play devil's advocate without being attached to players - he's not up to speed with Schmidt's defensive system and probably won't be for a few games, hence why if Schmidt wants to target the NZ game for a win he'll select Darce outside of Jackson.

For what it's worth I'd start Marshall, but I'd be more interested in getting players experience as a win is off the cards now with Sexton out.

Tox56

phog wrote: »

This is the 3rd of a series of three games, he's been poor in two. If he's not to be dropped for the remaining game when should a player with poor form be dropped?

When there are alternatives. Obviously not everyone will agree with me on this but I don't think dropping Bowe and bringing in Trimble is worth the problems it could cause, if it was Zebo/Earls or maybe Fitzgerald or Gilroy replacing him then I could get behind it, but in the apparent absence of those players I would keep Bowe, McFadden/Trimble on the wings just doesn't inspire at all

.ak

Bowe's in the same boat here - he's a little out of water with a new attack coach and probably was holding a bit of an injury. I'd start him again, he showed decent flashes against Oz especially when roaming into midfield.

BoardsMember

Last time I saw Bowe playing, think it was for the A's or something, can't remember, but I think it was shortly after Schmidt replaced DK and I think Schmidt was there...he was truly awful. Literally could not catch the ball, and horrendous kicking. I can see why people are not impressed with Bowe's play, but I don't understand why Trimble is being called for, I just don't think he is near good enough for this level.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ah here. Any word on Keith?

I don't know what training Earls has being doing but he hasn't played in over a month, we're carrying BOD, POC and now possibly Earls back from injuries, grim reading when facing the All Blacks.

.ak

durkadurka wrote: »

Except Ferg has a broken bone in his hand.

We're rightly fecked for wingers.

Really? Jesus first I've heard of it.

Fitz and Bowe to start, Kearney on at FB, Henshaw or DK to 23 and five hail mary's.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Not at all. I think as a team we were poor defensively, but yet I see the reasoning behind that; the team is playing to a new defensive system they wouldn't be used to. Some players will adapt to that quicker, but the newer guys like Marshall and Henshaw and the guys that aren't used to Schmidt like Bowe and POM had lapses in defence.

This is no sleight on Marshall and I apologise if you think I'm 'labouring a point' against him. I simply made the exact same point you did; He's not used to the system.

He's our future 12, and possibly could be the fulcrum of our attack come 2014, but let's not get misty eyed yet. I'd like to think I can play devil's advocate without being attached to players - he's not up to speed with Schmidt's defensive system and probably won't be for a few games, hence why if Schmidt wants to target the NZ game for a win he'll select Darce outside of Jackson.

For what it's worth I'd start Marshall, but I'd be more interested in getting players experience as a win is off the cards now with Sexton out.

'labouring the point' was probably a poor choice of words. Its a fair critique to make even if I dont agree with it.

phog

Tox56 wrote: »

When there are alternatives. Obviously not everyone will agree with me on this but I don't think dropping Bowe and bringing in Trimble is worth the problems it could cause, if it was Zebo/Earls or maybe Fitzgerald or Gilroy replacing him then I could get behind it, but in the apparent absence of those players I would keep Bowe, McFadden/Trimble on the wings just doesn't inspire at all

That's slightly different and I'd probably agree with you but I've been less than impressed with Bowe this autumn.

evil_seed

awec wrote: »

There is no chance of BOD being dropped IMO.

Nor should he be - given it's the last time he will play the ABs, as well as Saturday's debacle he will have a point to prove and should be well up for it.

IMHO he shouldn't even be in the squad anymore. He's fading fast.

In relation to the bit I've bolded, there's no room for sentiment in professional sports anymore. That's the way it's going and it has to be. You have to be ruthless anymore. Ruthless compassion is the bs term for it I believe

former legend

Well I just hope to f**k that Rob Kearney's ribs are OK...

Very interesting call as to who will replace McFadden (assuming the broken bone in his hand keeps him out); my preference would be for Luke Fitz. There hasn't been a dicky bird about Earls in any injury updates and he hasn't been training so I can't imagine he'll be back.

bilston

Crap just heard about McFadden. Hope Kearney is ok.

Mahatma Geansai

You’d imagine that Trimble should be straight in for McFadden.

Utah_Saint

I know this is should be in the Ulster forum but a tweeted pic of Stuart Oldings knee

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

You’d imagine that Trimble should be straight in for McFadden.

I'd imagine Fitzgerald will be as he's been with the squad and Trimble hasn't (IIRC).

.ak

evil_seed wrote: »

IMHO he shouldn't even be in the squad anymore. He's fading fast.

In relation to the bit I've bolded, there's no room for sentiment in professional sports anymore. That's the way it's going and it has to be. You have to be ruthless anymore. Ruthless compassion is the bs term for it I believe

Who would you play instead of BOD out of interest?

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

I'd imagine Fitzgerald will be as he's been with the squad and Trimble hasn't (IIRC).

I'm almost certain Trimble has been training with the squad

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

I'm almost certain Trimble has been training with the squad

He was called up but released for the Scarlets game, not sure if he returned to Ireland camp?

Utah_Saint

Tox56 wrote: »

I'm almost certain Trimble has been training with the squad

he has...i seen him in a news report from Carton House last week.

If BoD is out do we go for Cave? or bring Fitz to cover there?

.ak

Ah if Trimble has been with the squad he'll probably be next in line, although I'd prefer Fitz there tbh.

former legend

Utah_Saint wrote: »

he has...i seen him in a news report from Carton House last week.

If BoD is out do we go for Cave? or bring Fitz to cover there?

Why would he be out? Or do you mean dropped?