Ireland v. New Zealand build-up thread

bilston

Wheeker wrote: »

Just read about McFadden's injury in the IT http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/mcfadden-hand-fracture-adds-to-ireland-s-tale-of-injury-woe-1.1599211. Very bad luck, he was one of the few players to at least make a go of it last Sat.

So, have I got this right- Ireland's wingers in order of preference are: Bowe, Zebo, Earls, Gilroy, McFadden, D. Kearney, Fitzgerald.... and now Jones(?!). Can someone please tell me what Andrew Trimble has done wrong to not even make Ireland's 8th best winger? This season already I have seen him play 2 or 3 potential MOTM displays for Ulster. Has he upset Joe Schmidt (& Gerry Thornley?) or something?

I'm a huge fan of Trimble's but I assure you that you haven't seen 2 or 3 potential MOTM displays from Trimble this season, maybe you are thinking of last season, but not this season. His form for Ulster hasn't been all that good, against Leciester he was terrible. I don't like saying that because as I say I'm a big fan but he has been off form.

That said given we're down to our sixth (?) winger now I'd still look to give him a run this weekend irrespective of form.

former legend

Wheeker wrote: »

Just read about McFadden's injury in the IT http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/mcfadden-hand-fracture-adds-to-ireland-s-tale-of-injury-woe-1.1599211. Very bad luck, he was one of the few players to at least make a go of it last Sat.

So, have I got this right- Ireland's wingers in order of preference are: Bowe, Zebo, Earls, Gilroy, McFadden, D. Kearney, Fitzgerald.... and now Jones(?!).

I think Jones was mentioned as potential cover for Rob Kearney rather than as a winger. Personally I'd play Henshaw at 15 or even Dave Kearney rather than Jones, if Kearney was injured.

Would they be allowed to call up Niall Morris? Isn't there some rule that if a player isn't going to be in the 23, he has to be released back to his club by the Thursday?

.ak

Fitz and Trimble can cover Kearney and McFadden. I wouldn't have too much worry about them stepping up as they're proven internationals, but I'd be worried about Fitz at FB as he could be badly exposed again. Out of all the players I'll be hoping Kearney is fit for sunday.

its_phil

The only fear I have with playing Henshaw at FB is he hasn't played there much this season and he's going against Dagg. But then again it was the same with Zebo last year IIRC

Edit: this is in the case Kearney is not fit

.ak

I'd probably prefer Henshaw to 15 than Fitz or DK anyway. Solid player if he can make his tackles and good under high ball, hopefully wouldn't be exposed.

So, best case scenario back 3 for Sunday? Fitz, Kearney, Bowe (actually those 3 did allright wearing red in south africa 4 years ago...) Worst case? Fitz, Henshaw, Bowe. Trimble on the bnech.

former legend

its_phil wrote: »

The only fear I have with playing Henshaw at FB is he hasn't played there much this season and he's going against Dagg. But then again it was the same with Zebo last year IIRC

But Zebo got nothing like the test against SA or Argentina that whoever plays at 15 is going to get this Sunday.

For all the stick Kearney gets on boards, we should all be praying he's fit for the weekend. It is not a game for throwing someone in and hoping for the best.

danthefan

its_phil wrote: »

The only fear I have with playing Henshaw at FB is he hasn't played there much this season and he's going against Dagg. But then again it was the same with Zebo last year IIRC

This is meaningless really, it's not as if the fullbacks chase each other around the pitch for 80 minutes. It's probably the least adversarial (in the context of your opposite number) position in rugby.

.ak

danthefan wrote: »

This is meaningless really, it's not as if the fullbacks chase each other around the pitch for 80 minutes. It's probably the least adversarial (in the context of your opposite number) position in rugby.

Unless they're kicking to each other for territory. In which case Dagg will win every time anyway.

Journeyman_1

danthefan wrote: »

This is meaningless really, it's not as if the fullbacks chase each other around the pitch for 80 minutes. It's probably the least adversarial (in the context of your opposite number) position in rugby.

ya, id be more worried about the likes of piutau, savea, read running hard at an inexperienced FB taking a high ball i think.

its_phil

former legend wrote: »

But Zebo got nothing like the test against SA or Argentina that whoever plays at 15 is going to get this Sunday.

For all the stick Kearney gets on boards, we should all be praying he's fit for the weekend. It is not a game for throwing someone in and hoping for the best.

I should have added if Kearney is not fit to my original post

its_phil

danthefan wrote: »

This is meaningless really, it's not as if the fullbacks chase each other around the pitch for 80 minutes. It's probably the least adversarial (in the context of your opposite number) position in rugby.

If the All Blacks decide to start bombing on someone who isn't Kearney I'm fairly confident Dagg will be sending and chasing some of those kicks.

.ak

TBH the more I think about the more I'm eager for Sunday. There is a chance we may play well and up our game from last week, our execution may be bang on and Jackson/Madigan may just have the game of their lives... But even if none of this happens, I'm very excited to see this AB team in the flesh.

b.gud

Hey guys. I'm gonna be going to the match on Sunday with my girlfriend.
This will be the first international match, and match at the Aviva, that both of us have gone to.

Just wondering if you guys have any suggestions on things that we def should do or things to avoid, any tips wil be greatly appreciated.

fitz

b.gud wrote: »

Hey guys. I'm gonna be going to the match on Sunday with my girlfriend.
This will be the first international match, and match at the Aviva, that both of us have gone to.

Just wondering if you guys have any suggestions on things that we def should do or things to avoid, any tips wil be greatly appreciated.

Cheer the team on.
Be in your seat 10 minutes before kickoff.

Wheeker

bilston wrote: »

I'm a huge fan of Trimble's but I assure you that you haven't seen 2 or 3 potential MOTM displays from Trimble this season, maybe you are thinking of last season, but not this season. His form for Ulster hasn't been all that good, against Leciester he was terrible. I don't like saying that because as I say I'm a big fan but he has been off form.

That said given we're down to our sixth (?) winger now I'd still look to give him a run this weekend irrespective of form.

OK- saying Trimble has had "2 or 3 potential MOTM displays" is pushing it. However I would disagree with you that Trimble is off-form. He scored a great try against Montpelier & played really well against Cardiff. He's only played 6 games this season so far & Ulster have been hot & cold. I just think he is a good strong winger with great finishing. It just irks me that Thornley doesn't even mention him. I mean:

• Bowe- off form, had a v.poor match v Aus
• Zebo- injured
• Earls- injured
• Gilroy- injured
• McFadden- injured
• D. Kearney- v. little international experience
• Fitzgerald- just returning from another injury

Surely by now he should at least be in the running for a place in the squad?

shamco

eire_lad wrote: »

only way ireland will ever beat the AB's is by playin the match in thomond. Been up in the Aviva every year for a 6 nations and atmosphere is always dead, really crap....and that has to feed through to the players... crowd will probably end up cheering during the haka and going quiet for the rest of de game on sunday.think silence for the haka is best!! the only thing the aviva is good for is lame mexican waves....

You're right about the atmosphere in the Aviva and they need to get rid of the idiot making announcements after every score

eire_lad

fitz wrote: »

Cheer the team on.
Be in your seat 10 minutes before kickoff.

Go for a smoke at half time and miss the first 10mins of 2nd half

bilston

Wheeker wrote: »

OK- saying Trimble has had "2 or 3 potential MOTM displays" is pushing it. However I would disagree with you that Trimble is off-form. He scored a great try against Montpelier & played really well against Cardiff. He's only played 6 games this season so far & Ulster have been hot & cold. I just think he is a good strong winger with great finishing. It just irks me that Thornley doesn't even mention him. I mean:

• Bowe- off form, had a v.poor match v Aus
• Zebo- injured
• Earls- injured
• Gilroy- injured
• McFadden- injured
• D. Kearney- v. little international experience
• Fitzgerald- just returning from another injury

Surely by now he should at least be in the running for a place in the squad?

Yeah, he played well in Montpellier. I agree he should be in the squad, in fact there are a couple of players in that list who I would have him ahead of.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Anyone know what exactly the story is with Sexton?

Teferi

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Anyone know what exactly the story is with Sexton?

The latest is that his hamstring injury isn't as bad as first thought so he'll be given every opportunity to prove himself for Saturday. I'd imagine it's very, very unlikely he will play.

molloyjh

Teferi wrote: »

The latest is that his hamstring injury isn't as bad as first thought so he'll be given every opportunity to prove himself for Saturday. I'd imagine it's very, very unlikely he will play.

"Given the opportunity" is a phrase we've seen a few times this season at Leinster and Ireland that, in every case I can remember, has meant the player will not be back. It's this seasons "a week too soon".

Berticus

When Rob Kearney was at his best, the number of kicks per game was considerably higher than the current average number of kicks per game in Super Rugby and 6nations. Think of the lions tour in South Africa in 2009 or the 07 World Cup compared to today's game. The newest law changes/interpretations basically ensured this.

As I see it, the current full back has 4 core duties - catching, counter-attacking by taking into tackle, returning a kick with a kick, and acting as a last line of defence.

Given the way the game has changed - more running and less kicking - the two previous strengths of Kearney - catching and kicking are now less important. Currently what has increased in importance is the fullbacks ability to counter-attack by running and also to act as a last line of defence.

So in a way, it's not necessarily that Kearney has disimproved massively but rather that the game has moved away from his strengths ( I don't think his kicking is up to scratch though either)

I think therefore giving a player with better counter attacking abilities in the Six nations, perhaps Zebo, might be worth trying.

danthefan

Berticus wrote: »

When Rob Kearney was at his best, the number of kicks per game was considerably higher than the current average number of kicks per game in Super Rugby and 6nations. Think of the lions tour in South Africa in 2009 or the 07 World Cup compared to today's game. The newest law changes/interpretations basically ensured this.

As I see it, the current full back has 4 core duties - catching, counter-attacking by taking into tackle, returning a kick with a kick, and acting as a last line of defence.

Given the way the game has changed - more running and less kicking - the two previous strengths of Kearney - catching and kicking are now less important. Currently what has increased in importance is the fullbacks ability to counter-attack by running and also to act as a last line of defence.

So in a way, it's not necessarily that Kearney has disimproved massively but rather that the game has moved away from his strengths ( I don't think his kicking is up to scratch though either)

I think therefore giving a player with better counter attacking abilities in the Six nations, perhaps Zebo, might be worth trying.

And yet, in 2011/12 he was deemed the best player in the HEC (whether or not anyone agrees whether he was the best player in Europe or not, you'd have to be blind to think he wasn't in superb form), when rugby was the exact same as it is now. What a conundrum.

evil_seed

danthefan wrote: »

And yet, in 2011/12 he was deemed the best player in the HEC (whether or not anyone agrees whether he was the best player in Europe or not, you'd have to be blind to think he wasn't in superb form), when rugby was the exact same as it is now. What a conundrum.

He's gone backwards, whether that's down to bad player development or just poor form lasting too long it's hard to say. Either way he's not performing well enough since then

former legend

Berticus wrote: »

I think therefore giving a player with better counter attacking abilities in the Six nations, perhaps Zebo, might be worth trying.

Simon Zebo has played 2 games at full-back in his entire life and will play zero between now and the 6N. He's not an option there.

CGD

My prediction is that by next season and possibly sooner than that Kearney will be our 15 but not Rob!

GBXI

danthefan wrote: »

And yet, in 2011/12 he was deemed the best player in the HEC (whether or not anyone agrees whether he was the best player in Europe or not, you'd have to be blind to think he wasn't in superb form), when rugby was the exact same as it is now. What a conundrum.

Kearney's problem (and I do hope he is fit for Sunday) is that he is a very average counter-attacker/open-field runner.

Brilliant catcher and defender - he's just not inventive enough, like say Fitzgerald.

former legend

evil_seed wrote: »

He's gone backwards, whether that's down to bad player development or just poor form lasting too long it's hard to say. Either way he's not performing well enough since then

Spot on. It's not like he was picked for a Lions tour in the interim. Or won any medals or anything.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

Simon Zebo has played 2 games at full-back in his entire life and will play zero between now and the 6N. He's not an option there.

Don't buy this for a second. He played a test match there against SA and didn't look out of place. He has the skillset to play 15 and is definitely and option there for Ireland

If he was fit now I'd like to see him tried this weekend instead of Kearney

jamiedav2011

David Wallace advocating starting SOB at 8 and Heaslip at 7 this weekend.

Seriously?!