Ireland v. New Zealand build-up thread

Swiwi.

Well, as the rugby year nears its end, one of the final tests sees my homeland take on my home land. It's been fun following the ABs this year, as always they produce great backplay, but I've been happy with the character of the team that saw them resist ferocious challenges from France & England in recent weeks (that English forward pack is something else...).

Much of this thread will of course be debating Irish selections, but I'm going to kick it off by selecting my AB team for next week. I know a fair number of you have watched NZ play at various times this year, and I'd be genuinely interested in your views. I await thomond2006's preview with interest...

Before this, I'd just say that I believe currently there is only one way to beat the ABs, and that is to bash them up front. Possible exceptions might be Australia or Wales with their backs, and SA have made great progress in this regard too, but really it is the SA/French/English/Argentinian packs that have troubled NZ the most this season. So, if you are debating Irish selections, I suggest keeping that in mind eg ?Tuohy ahead of Toner for example.

1. Tony Woodcook has been an excellent LH for NZ over the years, but IMO he is now about 4 years past his best, and on the wane. Wyatt Crockett, his deputy, is an excellent prop in all areas, except the most crucial of all: the scrum - he has a tendancy to drop his bind/fold in, and concede penalties. Joe Moody is apparently very promising - he's an ex-wrestler - but was cruelly injured on the eve of the tour. Woodcock is injured, so I expect Crockett to start.

2. Andrew Hore is certain to start this test - his last - with Dane Coles on the bench. Hansen & co will select 1 if not 2 brand spanking new hookers next year, so anyone who watches the SXV should keep an eye on this battle.

3. A couple of seasons back Owen Franks looked to be the new Carl Hayman. Then he plateaued. Where he remains stuck. Faumuina is on the rise, but the selectors prefer his impact off the bench. Perhaps NZ's two most unlucky THs are the Chiefs duo of Afeaki and Tameifuna. The selectors reckon Tamefuina is too unfit for international rugby, but if he can do a job for 50 minutes, I'd take him. The scrum vs Argentina this year was embarrassing, with Figallo in rampant form. I hope Faumuina starts, I suspect Franks will get the nod.

4. With the injury to Romano, Retallick has come on in leaps & bounds. I don't know a lock in world rugby with a higher work rate. However, him & Whitelock are a bit same-y, and Whitelock is probably better at the kickoffs and lineouts. I reckon Romano might get the nod, especially given NZ's scrum travails, he's more a lock in the Brad Thorn mould.

5. Whitelock (or Retallick). NZ's lineout was a shambles in the early noughties, but has been immaculate this year, including several vital steals against England yesterday.

6. I didn't rate Messam. Then he had a stormer at Ellis Park, and I changed my mind. But then he went missing again yesterday. Time for Luatua please.

7. McCaw. But Cane on the bench, not Messam.

8. Reid. NZ's best player, and utterly irreplaceable. The quietly spoken and humble 8 has been amazing this season, and is a joy to watch.

9. Smith but please PLEASE TJ Perenara on the bench. Perenara is the future, not the stodgy Kerr-Barlow.

10. Carter is likely out. Again. Cruden with Barrett on the bench.

11. Savea. Justified his selection v England, and then some.

12. Nonu. Still produces for NZ, won't be challenged until 2015 when SBW returns to rugby.

13. Smith. I'd like to see Piutau get a run there, but he needs to do this for the Blues first of all. Smith is getting better, England found no holes down his channel yesterday, although with Tomkins that's no real surprise.

14. Jane I'd spell Piutau (or at least move him to the bench). He's a great find, but I'd like to see Jane get another shot.

15. Dagg. Still the most complete FB in world rugby (despite the English raptures about Brown), but Folau just gets better & better.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Fitzpatrick/Archer
4 Toner
5 POC
6 POM
7 SOB
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Jackson
11 Fitzgerald
12 Marshall
13 BOD
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

Tox56

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Fitzpatrick/Archer
4 Toner
5 POC
6 POM
7 SOB
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Jackson
11 Fitzgerald
12 Marshall
13 BOD
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

Ross may have had a bad game yesterday but throwing Archer in here would be insane, I doubt Fitzpatrick is fit

Dropping McFadden isn't the answer

McGrath struggled just as much as Healy, and even then I think most of the problems were on Ross's side

bilston

McFadden was pretty good yesterday (one particularly bizarre restart aside) so I would keep him.

I'm not sure there will be that many changes but Id expect us to revert to Murray and Jackson at half back, I hope that doesn't mean Marshall is sacrificed as I though he played well yesterday (Cooper try aside and even then I couldn't say whether he was Marshall or Madiagns man).

Unless Earls is fit I guess Bowe keeps his place, he did have some bright moments in fairness but defensively was all at sea.

If he is fit Id bring Fitzpatrick in at 3 and I would promote either Trimble or Fitzgerald to the bench.

Finally if I was a heartless feller Id bring Cave in at 13 but actually I don't think any coach in the world (bar one) would drop BOD for this. The 6Ns may be a different matter though.

Richard Hillman

I hear the New Zealand team will be wearing black out of respect of the massacre that will ensue next Sunday.

phog

We don't need wholesale changes and we haven't the players if we did.

Murray and Jackson to start, Earls if fit but needs to 100% fit and keep Marshall and the rest to use yesterday as a wake up call.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Finally if I was a heartless feller Id bring Cave in at 13 but actually I don't think any coach in the world (bar one) would drop BOD for this. The 6Ns may be a different matter though.

Maybe the 6Ns but really that call would be very premature, he still has the potential to perform to a much higher standard than Cave and he is insanely experienced, the New Zealand backline is not the backline for a 13 to face on their first start. I think he and Bowe are in the same boat, they are off form and they're making very uncharacteristic mistakes, but they need to be persisted with for now. The lack of viable alternatives is the other thing, if we had Jonathan Davies I would actually agree with dropping BOD this time, and if we had Zebo or Gilroy then Bowe could be facing the axe, I think they're safe for now though

.ak

I think we'll see Murray and Darce brought back into the starting 15 for this. Fitz to the 23 jersey.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

.ak wrote: »

I think we'll see Murray and Darce brought back into the starting 15 for this. Fitz to the 23 jersey.

I'll be pretty pissed if Darcy gets back into the side, Marshall was rock solid yesterday in defense outside of the Cooper try, and I'd lay the majority of the blame for that with Madigan

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

I think we'll see Murray and Darce brought back into the starting 15 for this. Fitz to the 23 jersey.

I hope we don't see Darce, Marshall will only improve with game time and he really wasn't that bad last night, Nonu would be a great test for him.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

I think we'll see Murray and Darce brought back into the starting 15 for this. Fitz to the 23 jersey.

I hope you are wrong about D'Arcy but suspect you could be right.

Marshall played pretty well, particularly at the end he made three or four clean line breaks and offered us a threat from midfield that has been lacking for some time.

However irrespective of who was culpable for Coopers try I think Joe may look at that and think that's what happens when you have two inexperienced players at 10 and 12.

sydneybound

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I hear the New Zealand team will be wearing black out of respect of the massacre that will ensue next Sunday.

Surely this should win a prize for post of the day?

sullivlo

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
Poc
Toner
Pom
Sob
Heaslip

Murray
Jackson
McFadden
Marshall
Bod
Trimble
Kearney*

Cronin
McGrath
Moore
Tuohy
Jennings
Boss
Madigan
Kearney

*kearney doesn't deserve to be there but no other options with earls gilroy Zebo injured

Bod and Poc can't be that bad two weeks in a row.

Would consider:
7 Jennings
20 Sob
... given the opposition (& the impact they will have on the bench). Have Jennings as a groundhog with Heaslip as the impact runner.

Healy put in a great defensive display yesterday. Best needs to work on darts but offers more around the field (I think) than Cronin. Cronin looked sprightly when he came on. Ross needs a break. Fitz if he's fit and a call up for Moore - Archer would be mullered and could break his back if he persists in scramming like a pretzel.

Poc and toner: toner did well yesterday bar one line out.

Murray: (with boss) two similar players but boss deserves his chance. And although reddan wasn't all bad yesterday, Murray needs to start.

Jackson deserves his spot. Madigan as impact sub.

McFadden did very well yesterday. Needs to play like a winger and back himself tho - he takes it into contact like a 12!

Marshall deserves his spot. Nice line breaks yesterday and solid defensively.

Bod

Trimble because Bowe had a bad game and Andy deserves a shot

Kearney because there is nobody else.

Would consider finding space for Luke Fitz but not at the expense of McFadden.

Risteard

bilston wrote: »

I hope you are wrong about D'Arcy but suspect you could be right.

Marshall played pretty well, particularly at the end he made three or four clean line breaks and offered us a threat from midfield that has been lacking for some time.

However irrespective of who was culpable for Coopers try I think Joe may look at that and think that's what happens when you have two inexperienced players at 10 and 12.

Having Jackson and Marshall together wouldn't be a problem, they've played a lot of games together. And considering Jackson should start and D'arcy should not, Jackson and Marshall should be the 10/12.

Moore should be brought in and so should either Wilson or Coughlan.

I'd like to see Fitzgerald play (potentially at 13) or play Cave there and Fitz. on the wing.

Marmion to the bench and Murray to start.

Touhy to start, Toner to bench.

Healy to keep his place, was probably our best performer out there yesterday, the scrum problems being on Ross' side rather than his.

Hype710

Olding and Moore to the 23 please.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Hype710 wrote: »

Olding and Moore to the 23 please.

Not gonna happen , neither are training with the squad.

I'm pretty miffed at Moore's exclusion tbh. From what I can see I think he'll oust Ross by the end of the season for Leinster

its_phil

bilston wrote: »

Finally if I was a heartless feller Id bring Cave in at 13 but actually I don't think any coach in the world (bar one) would drop BOD for this. The 6Ns may be a different matter though.

IIRC Cave isn't in the squad. The All Blacks will pick on Cave like they did Wallace when he was parachuted into 12 for the 60-0 drubbing.

OldRio

Off to Mass.
Serious praying at the bidding prayers to be done.

sydthebeat

Hopefully:

Healy
Cronin
Ross
POC
Dev
PoM
SOB
Heaslip
Murray
Jackson
Bowe
Marshall
Bod
Mcfadden
Kearney

Mcgrath
Best
Moore
Touhy
Jennings
Reddan
Madigan
Henshaw (earls if fit enough)

The thought process here being slight changes to build squad, and no need for panic slate wiping.
I think the nugget deserves a starting place to see how he copes, his open play skills are a fantastic weapon of we can employ them.
Darcy simply doesn't have the attacking prowess anymore so marshall more than deserves to retain the 12. I realise that the vast majority of this game will be defending so it will be good experience for him, and also i know who id prefer to have to create and assist in a clean line break.
Most viewers would be agreed that of the locks toner was better yesterday but at this stage its hard to call for poc to be replaced. Id stick with the selection but give touhy at least 30.
A lot of the replacement selection depends on earls. If rk isn't fit there's an argument to start him at 15. I really don't want to see a partnership of Marshall / earls being introduced v nonu / smith

padser

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'll be pretty pissed if Darcy gets back into the side, Marshall was rock solid yesterday in defense outside of the Cooper try, and I'd lay the majority of the blame for that with Madigan

I'm not arguing for Darcy to start, but the notion that Marshall was rock solid in defence yesterday is crazy.

The defence (particular the backs) were incredibly poor yesterday. Defence is about patterns and working as a unit. Yes you can sometimes pick out individual missed tackles but the primary factor in how solid a defence is remains how everyone works together.

Picking out one person in the middle of a defensive as poor as yesterday as being "rock solid" really misses the point. At best, it's not possible unless you have for through a video analysis of each play of the game. The fact tries didn't come directly through his channel doesn't mean he was rock solid in defence.

Put it another way, if the sole objective next week was having the most solid defence we can in that specific game only, I'm pretty sure 100% of rugby coaches would back Darcy hands down.

.ak

padser wrote: »

I'm not arguing for Darcy to start, but the notion that Marshall was rock solid in defence yesterday is crazy.

The defence (particular the backs) were incredibly poor yesterday. Defence is about patterns and working as a unit. Yes you can sometimes pick out individual missed tackles but the primary factor in how solid a defence is remains how everyone works together.

Picking out one person in the middle of a defensive as poor as yesterday as being "rock solid" really misses the point. At best, it's not possible unless you have for through a video analysis of each play of the game. The fact tries didn't come directly through his channel doesn't mean he was rock solid in defence.

Put it another way, if the sole objective next week was having the most solid defence we can in that specific game only, I'm pretty sure 100% of rugby coaches would back Darcy hands down.

This. Marshall was unfortunately at sea for a lot of the game yesterday. He turned a lot of heads with his breaks but defensively he was very naive. If Schmidt wants to win the game he'll go with Darce. If he wants to continue with his mission to get a broaden the squad experience he'll stick with Marshall.

phog

.ak wrote: »

This. Marshall was unfortunately at sea for a lot of the game yesterday. He turned a lot of heads with his breaks but defensively he was very naive. If Schmidt wants to win the game he'll go with Darce. If he wants to continue with his mission to get a broaden the squad experience he'll stick with Marshall.

Darcy was hardly the pillar of defence last week. He was good in defending at a tackle/ruck but iirc he was poor in the defensive line itself.

Do you honestly believe we have a chance of beating the ABs?

molloyjh

Am I the only one who thinks Bowe has been getting off lightly when the criticism is being doled out?

My side for next week:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. POC
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

9. Murray
10. Sexton/Jackson (I really hope Jonny is fit!)
11. Fitzgerald
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. McFadden
15. R Kearney

16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Moore
19. Tuohy
20. McLaughlin
21. Reddan
22. Jackson/Madigan
23. D Kearney

I'd cut Ross a break as he suffered due to the constant early pushing from the Aussie scrum, which seems to have gone unnoticed by most. But the front row need to be told that they have a lot of pride to earn back. Moore deserves a spot on the bench I reckon. He slotted fairly seamlessly into HEC action. Let's see if he can do the same at international level.

Second row is straight forward. There's always going to be a bit of Toner-hate but he works his arse off and is far better than most give him credit for. I was also happy to see POC distributing ball more than usual yesterday even if it wasn't all effective. He's buying into the new set-up which is good to see. Tuohy deserves a spot too and given that McCarthy hasn't set the world alight I think the Ulsterman should take his spot. Our second rows need to be right on the tails of strike runners as often as possible though to clear out defenders and give us quick ball.

We haven't really used our back row that effectively yet, but if I were Joe I'd be telling them that if they are presenting themselves as strike runners they need to have people with them. If that's not a second row then it's one of the other back rows jobs to support. We can use Healy as a strike runner if SOB isn't available. We didn't see enough support going into the contact or variation in this area yesterday.

The half-backs are fairly obvious . I'd retain Reddan on the bench though because he really wasn't anywhere near as bad as some made out. His kicking was, for the most part, as good as it could have been. We just lost the aerial battle. We need to reign the kicking in against NZ as they will really tear us a new one if we give them so much possession. Sexton looked good yesterday but if he's not fit Jackson is the obvious choice.

There would be a temptation to bring Darce back in at centre but it would be the wrong move in my book. Marshall did little wrong yesterday and should be kept on. Drico needs a big performance. He needs to be told as much. I was really pissed off with his refusal to come off the pitch yesterday. The call came in and he should be doing what he is told, not fecking off to the far side of the pitch and telling the coaches to go away from him. He is not bigger than the team and he is not in charge. I really hope Joe has/had a serious chat with him about that.

On the wings McFadden was a consistent bright spot in the side yesterday. He's not really a winger even still but he's been making breaks and putting himself in good positions over the 2 games. I'd love to see him move into 12 for a spell at Leinster but I doubt that'll happen at this stage. Bowe hasn't done a whole lot to warrant a start I don't think and if he doesn't start he's not in the 23. As a result I'd drop him (which should send also a signal that nobody is above losing out) and move Ferg to 14 and put Fitz on the left wing. I really hope Earls, Gilroy and Zebo are all fit for the 6Ns though as the competition for back 3 places will hopefully push everyone. Rob is really our only FB option right now and he was good against Oz without being great.

On the bench Jackson if Sexton is fit (unlikely) otherwise Madigan who can cover 10 and 12. I'd include D Kearney as he can cover wing and FB and it may not be a bad idea to see how he goes at 15 if we can manage that for the last 10-15 mins.

.ak

phog wrote: »

Darcy was hardly the pillar of defence last week. He was good in defending at a tackle/ruck but iirc he was poor in the defensive line itself.

Do you honestly believe we have a chance of beating the ABs?

No. I'm just saying what Schmidt will pick depending on how he wants to target the game.

Darcy made mistakes last week, but once he got up to speed he was one of our best defenders - including BOD. Marshall never really got up to speed in our defensive line.

dodderangler

Number 10 spot. Who would you prefer though if johnny isn't fit to play?
Neither of the replacement 10 have much or no experience against the all blacks and you know carter will tear them apart because he knows it.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

Maybe the 6Ns but really that call would be very premature, he still has the potential to perform to a much higher standard than Cave and he is insanely experienced, the New Zealand backline is not the backline for a 13 to face on their first start. I think he and Bowe are in the same boat, they are off form and they're making very uncharacteristic mistakes, but they need to be persisted with for now. The lack of viable alternatives is the other thing, if we had Jonathan Davies I would actually agree with dropping BOD this time, and if we had Zebo or Gilroy then Bowe could be facing the axe, I think they're safe for now though

Is Gilroy a bit of a flash in the pan? I haven't seen much of note since the Argentinian game either for Ireland or Ulster. He had a very quiet 6Ns. Now whether that is down to his carrying a injury or something, I don't know, but I wouldn't be pinning a lot of hope on him at the moment.

I don't think Bowe has been right since his op when at the Ospreys and seems to be picking up a lot of injuries now. He was definitely picked on reputation for the Lions anyway.

Zebo's form hasn't been great either since he got injured in the 6 Nations.

phog

.ak wrote: »

No. I'm just saying what Schmidt will pick depending on how he wants to target the game.

Darcy made mistakes last week, but once he got up to speed he was one of our best defenders - including BOD. Marshall never really got up to speed in our defensive line.

I think every coach and player has to think they'll win their next game but as this is the ABs the result is a foregone conclusion so why not stick with Marshall and give him the game time.

Swiwi.

I would go with Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy, POC, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Jackson, McFadden, Marshall, BOD, Bowe, Kearney.

There are not really too many other options.

I can never understand why neither Leinster nor Ireland have given McFadden much of a run at 12. He's not a winger, despite his best efforts. He's fine there, but when you compare him to North, Savea, Habana, Bowe (when on form) etc it's a no-contest.

.ak

phog wrote: »

I think every coach and player has to think they'll win their next game but as this is the ABs the result is a foregone conclusion so why not stick with Marshall and give him the game time.

Yep, which is why I'd go with Marshall. Think he'll learn a lot more from Marshall's mistakes rather than Darce's reliability.

Clegg

Our form wing is Mc Fadden. He may not be as gifted as his provincial counterparts, but he gives 100% every game and he can never be faulted for his effort. I'd go as far to say that he has looked better in attack than Bowe.

If Sexton is can't play next week then Jackson should start. He already has a full start under his belt and did quite well against Samoa. I'm not going to have a go at Madigan, which some seem to be doing, as I think he did as well as could be expected of him. Our game was crumbling around him and he was left with little option but to kick. However that doesn't excuse the fact that his kicking from hand was poor. Neither does it excuse the tackle he missed on Cooper for his try. Much more blame needs to be placed on some senior players who underperformed; Heaslip, BOD, O'Connell, Ross were all terrible.

As for the AB game, we've already lost, we all know this. It's just a case of by how badly and with what players. My worry is that with Sexton possibly missing, Schmidt will revert to D'arcy in midfield to give a hand to Madigan/Jackson. This would be completely the wrong approach. Gordon has been a great player for Ireland in the past, but it's clear as day that he's past it now. Marshall should be stuck with as he is the future at 12. Dunno what we'll do at 13. I think BOD is past it, but there is nobody else who has actually ready to take his place for Ireland. Tight head is a problem too. Don't know what we'll do there either. Ross probably shouldn't start after his abject display against OZ and neither should Archer. That leaves us with Deccie Fitz as a starter, but one of Ross or Archer as a sub to come on. That's not exactly a great situation to be in.

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

I would go with Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy, POC, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Jackson, McFadden, Marshall, BOD, Bowe, Kearney.

There are not really too many other options.

I can never understand why neither Leinster nor Ireland have given McFadden much of a run at 12. He's not a winger, despite his best efforts. He's fine there, but when you compare him to North, Savea, Habana, Bowe (when on form) etc it's a no-contest.

Needs and wants. He's been required to play on the wing for Leinster and Ireland as 12 has been fairly well covered already and our back three have had consistency issues regarding injuries.

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

I would go with Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy, POC, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Jackson, McFadden, Marshall, BOD, Bowe, Kearney.

There are not really too many other options.

I can never understand why neither Leinster nor Ireland have given McFadden much of a run at 12. He's not a winger, despite his best efforts. He's fine there, but when you compare him to North, Savea, Habana, Bowe (when on form) etc it's a no-contest.

Because the need has been at wing more than 12, it's not necessarily a reflection of his ability in each position. We had Nacewa who took up 1 back three position, but Fitzgerald was always injured and Kearney has missed massive chunks of the last couple of seasons with injuries (and when he's not injured he's away with Ireland/Lions). There was usually always 1 spot on the wing up for grabs, and it was a better use of resources to play Ferg on the wing than move D'Arcy away from 12 and have nobody to play wing.

He still played a lot at 12 and looked very good nearly every time, but there was always an injury somewhere that forced him to move. Think of the H Cup final 2012, Fitzgerald was injured and if we didn't play McF on the wing it would have been a very raw Dave Kearney.

EOM and McFadden played a couple of times together at 12/13 and they looked very slick, it's a crying shame we won't get to see that partnership again

bilston

Hype710 wrote: »

Olding and Moore to the 23 please.

Sadly Olding did his knee playing for the Ulster Ravens on Friday night so I doubt we will be seeing him for a while. Massive shame.

jacothelad

Risteard wrote: »

Having Jackson and Marshall together wouldn't be a problem, they've played a lot of games together. And considering Jackson should start and D'arcy should not, Jackson and Marshall should be the 10/12.

Moore should be brought in and so should either Wilson or Coughlan.

I'd like to see Fitzgerald play (potentially at 13) or play Cave there and Fitz. on the wing.

Marmion to the bench and Murray to start.

Touhy to start, Toner to bench.

Healy to keep his place, was probably our best performer out there yesterday, the scrum problems being on Ross' side rather than his.

Wilson has a broken toe and really isn't the answer even if he was fit. neither id Coughlin.

Hype710 wrote: »

Olding and Moore to the 23 please.

Olding is out for the rest of the season. Wrecked his knee in the last minute of the A game on Friday. He played 10 superbly, nailing conversions from the touchline. The guy is a superb talent. let's hope he recovers quickly.

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Fitzpatrick/Archer
4 Toner
5 POC
6 POM
7 SOB
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Jackson
11 Fitzgerald
12 Marshall
13 BOD
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

that team would get destroyed - Archer and McGrath were awful when they came on (Archer in particular) , healy and ross must start . Tuouhy needs to replace Toner - Fitzgerald form is poor

Hagz

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell ©
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Fergus McFadden
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Rory Best
17. Jack McGrath
18. Deccie Fitzpatrick
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Shane Jennings
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Dave Kearney

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

Olding is out for the rest of the season. Wrecked his knee in the last minute of the A game on Friday. He played 10 superbly, nailing conversions from the touchline. The guy is a superb talent. let's hope he recovers quickly.

That is really awful news.

thebaz wrote: »

that team would get destroyed - Archer and McGrath were awful when they came on (Archer in particular) , healy and ross must start . Tuouhy needs to replace Toner - Fitzgerald form is poor

How was McGrath poor when he was on? And how is Fitzys form poor exactly?

thebaz

molloyjh wrote: »

That is really awful news.



How was McGrath poor when he was on? And how is Fitzys form poor exactly?

i blamed Archer mainly , but believe healy is the far better prop right now - fitzgerald hasn't well for quite a long time , since his injury -

kearney
trimble
BOD
D'Arcy
McFadden
Jackson
Murray
Healy
Best
Ross
POC (c)
Touhy
Jennings
O'Brien
Heaslip

molloyjh

thebaz wrote: »

i blamed Archer mainly , but believe healy is the far better prop right now - fitzgerald hasn't well for quite a long time , since his injury -

kearney
trimble
BOD
Marshall
McFadden
Jackson
Murray
Healy
Best
Ross
POC (c)
Touhy
Jennings
O'Brien
Heaslip

Healy does have a few years international experience over McGrath so I'd expect him to be (and agree he is) better. That doesn't mean McGrath is poor.

Fitzy has looked like he has a bit o the old spark about him for Leinster, unfortunately having him at 13 in a side that isn't playing well doesn't exactly advertise that. Bowe hasn't delivered at all and his defensive mistake for one of their tries (he was sucked in too narrow and then tried to tackle high) was very poor.

Has Trimble been training with the squad?

Clegg

I think this means D'arcy will start against New Zealand

Schmidt added: "One of the things is the number of Tests they've played.
"Aaron Cruden's accumulated almost 30 Tests (whereas) Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan have a handful each.
"That's a very big gap in terms of learning, experience and opportunity to maybe make some errors and learn from them.
"And they will be surrounded by some experienced players.
"So it's important for us to try to get the right players around the 10 if it's not Johnny."

thebaz

molloyjh wrote: »

Has Trimble been training with the squad?

don't think so , but after yesterdays non performance , that shouldn't really matter - one change to my team - my centre parnership would be BOD & D'Arcy - that partnership needed for NZ

siltirocker

Henshaw has played all but about 4 of his games at 15. I reckon he should slip in there for Kearney.

thebaz

siltirocker wrote: »

Henshaw has played all but about 4 of his games at 15. I reckon he should slip in there for Kearney.

neither played well yesterday - not a chance I'd pick henshaw over kearney against the all blacks

Hagz

I'd be disappointed if D'Arcy is selected against NZ. Marshall had a good game and he provides more of an attacking threat that Gordon. Of course experience will be used as a reason as it looks likely that Jackson will start, but the flip side to that is that Jackson and Marshall know each other very well.

corny

I'd love to have a bigger talent pool to choose from because really whats needed is a good kick up the arse for a lot of the senior players. They went through the motions on Saturday aware that no matter what happened they'd start against the NZ'ers.

This might seem reckless but i'd pick a perhaps inferior, younger alternative at this stage with an eye on the future (Henshaw for Kearney for eg). This malaise thats infected this team for too long has to be addressed. We can't blame Kidney anymore.

MBolgia

corny wrote: »

I'd love to have a bigger talent pool to choose from because really whats needed is a good kick up the arse for a lot of the senior players. They went through the motions on Saturday aware that no matter what happened they'd start against the NZ'ers.

This might seem reckless but i'd pick a perhaps inferior, younger alternative at this stage with an eye on the future (Henshaw for Kearney for eg). This malaise thats infected this team for too long has to be addressed. We can't blame Kidney anymore.

100% agree. Look at what Wales did. Get the kids on; they're learning from this match is more important than the result.

gally74

The selections here are hilarious.....

People pickink teams based on 3~4 yrs history.

Let's pick on Rabo / Heineken 2013/2014 season.

McGrath,
Cronin,
Ross, only because I have too,
McCarthy,
Toner,
Pom,
Ch,
Sob,
Marmion,
Jackson,
McFadden,
Marshall,
Henshaw,
Kearney,
Madrigal,

It's nuts playing so many folks that have so little game time, poc, Healy, bod, etc.

bilston

thebaz wrote: »

don't think so , but after yesterdays non performance , that shouldn't really matter - one change to my team - my centre parnership would be BOD & D'Arcy - that partnership needed for NZ

Marshall would be one of the last people who should be dropped after yesterday!

Mahatma Geansai

So we need to look at shipping BOD out to pasture. He hasn't been a force in attack for years, but his exceptional defense has more than made up for that. At present, he offers nothing with ball in hand, he is making silly errors by forcing his game, and his defense isn't near where we need it to be.

It's only sentimentality that has me wanting to see him line out next week to have one last crack at the All Blacks, but we need to have a look at other options during the 6N. Give him a game next week and one cameo during the 6N to get the caps record, then its time to move on. If Joe is serious about developing a squad, we need to get a couple of viable options at 13.

A few other general thoughts:
Marshall should be cemented at 12 going forward. Reddan should have played his last game for Ireland and its time to blood Marmionn. Moore needs to jump ahead of Ross for Leinster. We are in bad need of a tight carrier in the backrow, but there don't appear to be any on the horizon. We are looking good in the backrow with POM/SOB/Heaslip/Henry/TOD though. Henderson needs to break into the Ulster secondrow. We should be in good stead in the back three, but we need someone to put some pressure on Kearney to regain form.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I'd love to see Olding given a chance at 13

Mahatma Geansai

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'd love to see Olding given a chance at 13

He'll have to wait until next year's November internationals, because he is out for the season with a knee injury.