Ireland v. New Zealand build-up thread

thebaz

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

And ROG is our most capped player. Why not play him too sure?

BOD and D'Arcy have been simply class for Ireland , and hardly deserve such stupidity

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thebaz wrote: »

not sure if dropped is the right word - but against NZ I'd want as much experience as poss - D'Arcy and BOD have been the best Irish partnership ever in Irish rugby , and I'd play them

That's a terrible reason to pick a centre partnership

BOD and Darcy just aren't anything close to the attacking force they once were

Marshall is much more threatening

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thebaz wrote: »

BOD and D'Arcy have been simply class for Ireland , and hardly deserve such stupidity

When was the last time they've both been class?

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

When was the last time they've both been class?

only , every single time they have played together - thats all

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thebaz wrote: »

only , every single time they have played together - thats all

well that's just nonsense

corny

.ak wrote: »

BOD is still our best 13 and there's no other options available. BOD will play the rest of the season and rightly so. One bad game doesn't mean anything really. Consider how much rugby he's payed since the lions.

I think thats the point.

mohawk

thebaz wrote: »

not sure if dropped is the right word - but against NZ I'd want as much experience as poss - D'Arcy and BOD have been the best Irish partnership ever in Irish rugby , and I'd play them

If you look at the 6N would Marshall not benefit from the experience of playing against the all blacks.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

mohawk wrote: »

If you look at the 6N would Marshall not benefit from the experience of playing against the all blacks.

Not to mention that he's a better player than Darcy now

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

well that's just nonsense

well i believe you are spouting nonsense too, so ther you go - droping Ross for Archer ffs

.ak

corny wrote: »

I think thats the point.

BOD always takes a few games to to get to his usual standard.

It's one of these things that annoys me about people's reaction to international rugby - there's no give, or understanding, or logic - a couple of games into a 'new look' Ireland and people are already sharpening the knives for players and coaches alike.

They had an off day, and are still finding their feet. Bit of perspective people.

The way some people are going on we should show Heaslip, Kearney, BOD, Bowe, Darce, POC the door. When infact some of the people I've mentioned are in the top 5 of their position in the world.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thebaz wrote: »

well i believe you are spouting nonsense too, so ther you go - droping Ross for Archer fffs

I said Fitzpatrick/Archer. And tbh that was reactionary, if Fitz was fit I'd def start him ahead of Ross in a hearbeat though, Moore too.

The notion that Darcy and BOD have been class every time they've taken the field for Ireland is just pure nonsense and you know it

Howard Juneau

I would make some changes, keep some of the young guys, Marshall etc, let them have the experience of playing the AB's, we're going to get beaten, but this experience will stand to them in the 6 nations

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Not to mention that he's a better player than Darcy now

I'm not convinced. I'd start him, but not for that reason - he had an awful day against Australia.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

.ak wrote: »

I'm not convinced. I'd start him, but not for that reason - he had an awful day against Australia.

I thought he was one of our best players tbh, now I haven't watched it back but what did he do that was awful?

He seemed to be one of the few players we had threatening the Australian line in the second half , I can't remember the last time Darcy has made a clean break at international level

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I thought he was one of our best players tbh, now I haven't watched it back but what did he do that was awful?

I certainly didnt think he was awful , I thought he did reasonably well and is a very talented player and the future - but for the all black i'd go with the tried and tested - bod/ darcy axis


btw I thought mcfadden looked our most dangerous back for the past 2 tests.

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I thought he was one of our best players tbh, now I haven't watched it back but what did he do that was awful?

He seemed to be one of the few players we had threatening the Australian line in the second half , I can't remember the last time Darcy has made a clean break at international level

Did you watch the game on TV or at home? I think he turns a lot of people's heads because he was one of the few players who could break the gain line, or make a clean break, but his distribution was poor (read: not his pass, his distribution), and in the rush defence he was poor from the start - but that's because it's his first game under Schmidt. He'll get better and over take Darce, but right now I wouldn't say he's better.

UnitedWeStand

For the next test, I don't know whether Joe will just go "screw it, only one game left, lets just play the regulars and then after it'll be time for a 'night of the long knives'" and the cutting and changing will start then ahead of the 6N. Would it be better to give some of the older faces one last game at the end of an international season instead of just chopping them away midway through? How much would be learnt anyway from one game with new players, surely you have to have a string of games for this type of transition to have any merit? Fielding a new player against this All Black team could strike a huge dent in confidence to say the least if they end up getting brutally exposed by Nonu et al.

Things are going to take time, but from that Australia game I can see positives. The fact that we had no grunt is good in a sense, as the old Ireland seemed to rely on that one game out of three where we would just rely on passion to homer the opposition, and you can't build a future on that. I'd rather we break the whole hallmark of our game down to the very bottom, and build everything back up again. Everything has to change as nothing has been good about the past three years of our international rugby.

Joe Schmidt will be trying to end that "one big passionate game" mentality and put in technical efficiency. Ireland is brimming with talent, and in no disrespectful way I believe that our players our more skilled and refined than a lot of those in the Welsh and English squads (not all). Joe Schmidt will know that and if he can finally rid us of the grunt, passionate play, and instead instill us with the Leinster like instincts of razor sharp passing and technical know how, then I fully believe this team will achieve its potential.

Lets face facts, were in transition, lets not expect anything from this game, and by doing that we may just help the players adjust better in the JS format of playing, and get something out of this all.

mohawk

Being totally irrational here but it's feckin frustrating that NZ lose Carter and they have a top class replacement in Cruden. It's sickening*






*may possibly be over reacting.

.ak

Sexton vs Carter would've been immense. Madigan vs Cruden could result in some entertainment though! :P

UnitedWeStand

.ak wrote: »

Sexton vs Carter would've been immense. Madigan vs Cruden could result in some entertainment though! :P

I've always thought Sexton was a mould of Carter in many ways. Both have a level of distribution that is a level above any other 10 on the planet right now. I would argue Sexton has a slightly stronger/faster and more accurate pass than Carter, whereas Carter is slightly better at cutting through the oppositions defense. But either way, both of them are on the same wavelength and know how to move their backs.

I don't fear Cruden as much if we have a solid defense. I'm not convinced of his distribution just yet, but he has thunder thighs and has such a powerful step that if our defense is anything like how it was against the Aussies, we will be dealing with another Cooper in essense.

Swiwi.

Anyone have any thoughts on which NZ 15 should front, or are ye all happy to take my selection as gospel...

Glass Prison 1214

Swiwi. wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on which NZ 15 should front, or are ye all happy to take my selection as gospel...

Most of your selections seem spot on, however from an Ireland point of view I really hope Crockett is starting, I have seen him a few times and always seems to be giving away penalties in the scrum. If he is starting he would be the chink in New Zealand's armor IMO.

Swiwi.

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Most of your selections seem spot on, however from an Ireland point of view I really hope Crockett is starting, I have seen him a few times and always seems to be giving away penalties in the scrum. If he is starting he would be the chink in New Zealand's armor IMO.

Yeah, I agree. Although after yesterday, I'm not at all convinced Ross is the man to do it. I would actually drop Ross, his time is up, promote Marty Moore to the bench and give Fitzpatrick another start.

Super XV 2014 will be "Operation Find New AB Front Row" as far as I'm concerned.

Tox56

Declan Fitz is more than good enough but is made of chocolate. Crockett looked like he added a lot in open play so I don't really mind which LH NZ go for.

Honestly this game is about performance, any chance we had to win was vaporised when Sexton was injured, it's about how certain individuals but more importantly the team as a whole perform

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

Declan Fitz is more than good enough but is made of chocolate. Crockett looked like he added a lot in open play so I don't really mind which LH NZ go for.

Honestly this game is about performance, any chance we had to win was vaporised when Sexton was injured, it's about how certain individuals but more importantly the team as a whole perform

Schmidt has a choice: damage limitation, or take a punt but give a few players earmarked for the future a chance. Hence why I'd give Marshall a run, but I suspect he will revert to Darcy to shore up the defence.

As an aside, if Earls & Zebo were fit, I'd go Earls 11, Bowe 14 and Zebo 15, Rob Kearney is a shadow of his 2009 form.

sydthebeat

Swiwi. wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on which NZ 15 should front, or are ye all happy to take my selection as gospel...

Did ardie saveau travel? Is love to see him play.
But on a whole I think we will see much the same as yesterday apart from enforced injuries. I wouldn't be disappointed to see retallick not start as i think he's a class player who will only get better.

Heaslip v read will be intriguing. ...

Tox56

sydthebeat wrote: »

Did ardie saveau travel? Is love to see him play.
But on a whole I think we will see much the same as yesterday apart from enforced injuries. I wouldn't be disappointed to see retallick not start as i think he's a class player who will only get better.

Heaslip v read will be intriguing. ...

Heaslip needs a kick up the arse, short of dropping him playing directly opposite the best player in the world might be the only way to do that, when he was seriously motivated to make the Lions tour he was playing out of his skin

shuffol

Mcfaddens a likeable player, he's plucky and committed but can be a bit headless. There were a few instances in the first half yesterday that I noticed. The mix up with Reddan at a restart, him and Kearney running straight past Folau when chasing a high ball, his chip kick to no mans land which led to Hoopers try. The main one that summed him up for me though was when he got free down the left in the first half, all he had to do was stay wide, pull the defender across and pass inside to the support runner, instead he cut in and ran straight across the other runners path. In fairness to him he's well down the pecking order of wings and would be more comfortable in the right side.

Thats depressing news about Olding, with a run of games for Ulster he'd have walked into the Irish side.

Journeyman_1

Swiwi. wrote: »

Anyone have any thoughts on which NZ 15 should front, or are ye all happy to take my selection as gospel...

I was just about to post a team :-P

Crockett
Hore (last test)
Faumuina
Whitelock/retallick (one deserves a break, and ireland have to be considered the easiest game ofthe series)
Romano
Luatua
Cane
Read
Smith
Cruden
Savea
Nonu
Piutau
Jane
Dagg

There are a few strange calls there i guess, but most are due to rotation and giving some guys a game. Luatua started the season well, but had some poor displaysagainst good opposition (argentina at home and SA if i recall correctly). I think some of that was down to trying to do too much off the bench. Messam has been good but can disappear. Overall he proved he was right for the bigger games, but Luatua is more exciting and needs international game time.

It could be argued that cane should be there on merit this season at 7. I think he deserves another game, and making sure ritchie doesnt get injured in the last game of the season cant hurt.

Cruden is going to start unless carter is absolutely 100% and maybe anyway. I wanted to pick barrett, but he can just come on with 20 to go and pick the pace up.

Piutau at 13 is as a trial. I dont know who else NZ have after c. Smith and b. Smith, but ben isnt a 13 imo. He has been largely anonymous outside the times he shows up 2nd from the wing or last man out. I think piutau running hard and fast at the line and getting some offloads could be very dangerous. Continuity for ben may help him though and i expect him to start.

Jane is in for a chance to show the management staff what he can do atm, and try to make the wing selection even more disgustingly tough.

ScissorPaperRock

Really disappointed to hear that about Olding. He was fast becoming my favourite upcoming player. Very disappointing if he can't be involved in the Six Nations.