Ireland v. New Zealand build-up thread

Tox56 · 17-11-2013 02:30PM

Swiwi. wrote: »

I would go with Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy, POC, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Jackson, McFadden, Marshall, BOD, Bowe, Kearney.

There are not really too many other options.

I can never understand why neither Leinster nor Ireland have given McFadden much of a run at 12. He's not a winger, despite his best efforts. He's fine there, but when you compare him to North, Savea, Habana, Bowe (when on form) etc it's a no-contest.

Because the need has been at wing more than 12, it's not necessarily a reflection of his ability in each position. We had Nacewa who took up 1 back three position, but Fitzgerald was always injured and Kearney has missed massive chunks of the last couple of seasons with injuries (and when he's not injured he's away with Ireland/Lions). There was usually always 1 spot on the wing up for grabs, and it was a better use of resources to play Ferg on the wing than move D'Arcy away from 12 and have nobody to play wing.

He still played a lot at 12 and looked very good nearly every time, but there was always an injury somewhere that forced him to move. Think of the H Cup final 2012, Fitzgerald was injured and if we didn't play McF on the wing it would have been a very raw Dave Kearney.

EOM and McFadden played a couple of times together at 12/13 and they looked very slick, it's a crying shame we won't get to see that partnership again

bilston · 17-11-2013 02:33PM

Hype710 wrote: »

Olding and Moore to the 23 please.

Sadly Olding did his knee playing for the Ulster Ravens on Friday night so I doubt we will be seeing him for a while. Massive shame.

jacothelad · 17-11-2013 02:45PM

Risteard wrote: »

Having Jackson and Marshall together wouldn't be a problem, they've played a lot of games together. And considering Jackson should start and D'arcy should not, Jackson and Marshall should be the 10/12.

Moore should be brought in and so should either Wilson or Coughlan.

I'd like to see Fitzgerald play (potentially at 13) or play Cave there and Fitz. on the wing.

Marmion to the bench and Murray to start.

Touhy to start, Toner to bench.

Healy to keep his place, was probably our best performer out there yesterday, the scrum problems being on Ross' side rather than his.

Wilson has a broken toe and really isn't the answer even if he was fit. neither id Coughlin.

Hype710 wrote: »

Olding and Moore to the 23 please.

Olding is out for the rest of the season. Wrecked his knee in the last minute of the A game on Friday. He played 10 superbly, nailing conversions from the touchline. The guy is a superb talent. let's hope he recovers quickly.

thebaz · 17-11-2013 02:55PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Fitzpatrick/Archer
4 Toner
5 POC
6 POM
7 SOB
8 Heaslip
9 Murray
10 Jackson
11 Fitzgerald
12 Marshall
13 BOD
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

that team would get destroyed - Archer and McGrath were awful when they came on (Archer in particular) , healy and ross must start . Tuouhy needs to replace Toner - Fitzgerald form is poor

Hagz · 17-11-2013 03:03PM

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell ©
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Fergus McFadden
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Rory Best
17. Jack McGrath
18. Deccie Fitzpatrick
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Shane Jennings
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Dave Kearney

molloyjh · 17-11-2013 03:03PM

jacothelad wrote: »

Olding is out for the rest of the season. Wrecked his knee in the last minute of the A game on Friday. He played 10 superbly, nailing conversions from the touchline. The guy is a superb talent. let's hope he recovers quickly.

That is really awful news.

thebaz wrote: »

that team would get destroyed - Archer and McGrath were awful when they came on (Archer in particular) , healy and ross must start . Tuouhy needs to replace Toner - Fitzgerald form is poor

How was McGrath poor when he was on? And how is Fitzys form poor exactly?

thebaz · 17-11-2013 03:07PM

molloyjh wrote: »

That is really awful news.

How was McGrath poor when he was on? And how is Fitzys form poor exactly?

i blamed Archer mainly , but believe healy is the far better prop right now - fitzgerald hasn't well for quite a long time , since his injury -

kearney
trimble
BOD
D'Arcy
McFadden
Jackson
Murray
Healy
Best
Ross
POC (c)
Touhy
Jennings
O'Brien
Heaslip

molloyjh · 17-11-2013 03:12PM

thebaz wrote: »

i blamed Archer mainly , but believe healy is the far better prop right now - fitzgerald hasn't well for quite a long time , since his injury -

kearney
trimble
BOD
Marshall
McFadden
Jackson
Murray
Healy
Best
Ross
POC (c)
Touhy
Jennings
O'Brien
Heaslip

Healy does have a few years international experience over McGrath so I'd expect him to be (and agree he is) better. That doesn't mean McGrath is poor.

Fitzy has looked like he has a bit o the old spark about him for Leinster, unfortunately having him at 13 in a side that isn't playing well doesn't exactly advertise that. Bowe hasn't delivered at all and his defensive mistake for one of their tries (he was sucked in too narrow and then tried to tackle high) was very poor.

Has Trimble been training with the squad?

Clegg · 17-11-2013 03:15PM

I think this means D'arcy will start against New Zealand

Schmidt added: "One of the things is the number of Tests they've played.
"Aaron Cruden's accumulated almost 30 Tests (whereas) Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan have a handful each.
"That's a very big gap in terms of learning, experience and opportunity to maybe make some errors and learn from them.
"And they will be surrounded by some experienced players.
"So it's important for us to try to get the right players around the 10 if it's not Johnny."

thebaz · 17-11-2013 03:20PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Has Trimble been training with the squad?

don't think so , but after yesterdays non performance , that shouldn't really matter - one change to my team - my centre parnership would be BOD & D'Arcy - that partnership needed for NZ

siltirocker · 17-11-2013 03:25PM

Henshaw has played all but about 4 of his games at 15. I reckon he should slip in there for Kearney.

thebaz · 17-11-2013 03:30PM

siltirocker wrote: »

Henshaw has played all but about 4 of his games at 15. I reckon he should slip in there for Kearney.

neither played well yesterday - not a chance I'd pick henshaw over kearney against the all blacks

Hagz · 17-11-2013 03:32PM

I'd be disappointed if D'Arcy is selected against NZ. Marshall had a good game and he provides more of an attacking threat that Gordon. Of course experience will be used as a reason as it looks likely that Jackson will start, but the flip side to that is that Jackson and Marshall know each other very well.

corny · 17-11-2013 03:51PM

I'd love to have a bigger talent pool to choose from because really whats needed is a good kick up the arse for a lot of the senior players. They went through the motions on Saturday aware that no matter what happened they'd start against the NZ'ers.

This might seem reckless but i'd pick a perhaps inferior, younger alternative at this stage with an eye on the future (Henshaw for Kearney for eg). This malaise thats infected this team for too long has to be addressed. We can't blame Kidney anymore.

MBolgia · 17-11-2013 04:01PM

corny wrote: »

I'd love to have a bigger talent pool to choose from because really whats needed is a good kick up the arse for a lot of the senior players. They went through the motions on Saturday aware that no matter what happened they'd start against the NZ'ers.

This might seem reckless but i'd pick a perhaps inferior, younger alternative at this stage with an eye on the future (Henshaw for Kearney for eg). This malaise thats infected this team for too long has to be addressed. We can't blame Kidney anymore.

100% agree. Look at what Wales did. Get the kids on; they're learning from this match is more important than the result.

gally74 · 17-11-2013 04:06PM

The selections here are hilarious.....

People pickink teams based on 3~4 yrs history.

Let's pick on Rabo / Heineken 2013/2014 season.

McGrath,
Cronin,
Ross, only because I have too,
McCarthy,
Toner,
Pom,
Ch,
Sob,
Marmion,
Jackson,
McFadden,
Marshall,
Henshaw,
Kearney,
Madrigal,

It's nuts playing so many folks that have so little game time, poc, Healy, bod, etc.

bilston · 17-11-2013 04:28PM

thebaz wrote: »

don't think so , but after yesterdays non performance , that shouldn't really matter - one change to my team - my centre parnership would be BOD & D'Arcy - that partnership needed for NZ

Marshall would be one of the last people who should be dropped after yesterday!

Mahatma Geansai · 17-11-2013 04:43PM

So we need to look at shipping BOD out to pasture. He hasn't been a force in attack for years, but his exceptional defense has more than made up for that. At present, he offers nothing with ball in hand, he is making silly errors by forcing his game, and his defense isn't near where we need it to be.

It's only sentimentality that has me wanting to see him line out next week to have one last crack at the All Blacks, but we need to have a look at other options during the 6N. Give him a game next week and one cameo during the 6N to get the caps record, then its time to move on. If Joe is serious about developing a squad, we need to get a couple of viable options at 13.

A few other general thoughts:
Marshall should be cemented at 12 going forward. Reddan should have played his last game for Ireland and its time to blood Marmionn. Moore needs to jump ahead of Ross for Leinster. We are in bad need of a tight carrier in the backrow, but there don't appear to be any on the horizon. We are looking good in the backrow with POM/SOB/Heaslip/Henry/TOD though. Henderson needs to break into the Ulster secondrow. We should be in good stead in the back three, but we need someone to put some pressure on Kearney to regain form.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 17-11-2013 04:45PM

I'd love to see Olding given a chance at 13

Mahatma Geansai · 17-11-2013 04:47PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'd love to see Olding given a chance at 13

He'll have to wait until next year's November internationals, because he is out for the season with a knee injury.

Hagz · 17-11-2013 04:48PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'd love to see Olding given a chance at 13

Now that's something I would be screaming for. Such a shame he's injured.

Hopefully MOC doesn't look to shift Fitz or McFadden in when BOD retires, or fill the gap with an NIQ. We have good young centres in Ireland and they deserve a shot.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 17-11-2013 04:49PM

Hagz wrote: »

Now that's something I would be screaming for. Such a shame he's injured.

Hopefully MOC doesn't look to shift Fitz or McFadden in when BOD retires, or fill the gap with an NIQ. We have good young centres in Ireland and they deserve a shot.

Is he? I thought he was playing ten for the Ravens this week?

Hagz · 17-11-2013 04:50PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Is he? I thought he was playing ten for the Ravens this week?

Twisted his knee bad. Sounds like it's the end of his season.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 17-11-2013 04:51PM

Hagz wrote: »

Twisted his knee bad. Sounds like it's the end of his season.

ah ****

former legend · 17-11-2013 04:56PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

So we need to look at shipping BOD out to pasture. He hasn't been a force in attack for years, but his exceptional defense has more than made up for that. At present, he offers nothing with ball in hand, he is making silly errors by forcing his game, and his defense isn't near where we need it to be.

Ah you're not even trying any more.

Clegg · 17-11-2013 05:08PM

former legend wrote: »

Ah you're not even trying any more.

He ain't wrong though.

thebaz · 17-11-2013 05:11PM

bilston wrote: »

Marshall would be one of the last people who should be dropped after yesterday!

not sure if dropped is the right word - but against NZ I'd want as much experience as poss - D'Arcy and BOD have been the best Irish partnership ever in Irish rugby , and I'd play them

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 17-11-2013 05:11PM

former legend wrote: »

Ah you're not even trying any more.

He's dead right tbh ( bar the part about not being a force in attack for years)

Mahatma Geansai · 17-11-2013 05:12PM

thebaz wrote: »

not sure if dropped is the right word - but against NZ I'd want as much experience as poss - D'Arcy and BOD have been the best Irish partnership ever in Irish rugby , and I'd play them

And ROG is our most capped player. Why not play him too sure?

.ak · 17-11-2013 05:17PM

BOD is still our best 13 and there's no other options available. BOD will play the rest of the season and rightly so. One bad game doesn't mean anything really. Consider how much rugby he's payed since the lions.

Ireland v. New Zealand build-up thread

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