Lack of new routes at Cork airport

JCX BXC

Just to clarify, I am in favour of a debt wipe of Cork Airport. The debt was caused under the mismanagement of the DAA and should be wiped.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Outkast_IRE

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Is that you MOL

JCX BXC

draiochtanois wrote: »

Actually no, it was created by building a 120 million terminal when an upgrade of 20 million to the old one would have done.

It is a stupid white elephant.

Is that not mismanagement?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

j8wk2feszrnpao

rebs23 wrote: »

It's very obvious from this thread that you wish to defend Shannon airport and everything to do with it including the blatantly unfair competitive advantage handed to it by the deal it got (100 million wiped off its debt and the ongoing rent roll from former Shannon development properties)

How many times are you going to repeat this in the thread?

JCX BXC

Also to clarify, Shannon Airport will not get any use of the Shannon development rents. It's just rolling rumour to benefit corks agenda.

roundymac

munstermagic11 wrote: »

How many times are you going to repeat this in the thread?

As often as needed, it is the truth, it seems to me that the SNN lobby are scared that Cork will get debt relief, well don't worry lads, as long as Cork has ministers like Simom Coveny and meps like like Deridre "clown" Clune SNN is quite safe.

rebs23

munstermagic11 wrote: »

How many times are you going to repeat this in the thread?

As often as necessary especially when others drag it off topic or make ridiculous claims about Shannon and the reason for "the lack of new routes at Cork airport" which is the title of this thread. Amazing the amount of posters on here from the Shannon lobby.

JCX BXC

rebs23 wrote: »

As often as necessary especially when others drag it off topic or make ridiculous claims about Shannon and the reason for "the lack of new routes at Cork airport" which is the title of this thread. Amazing the amount of posters on here from the Shannon lobby.

Your comments were in fact, incorrect. You really cannot use the words -"when others make riduclous claims about Shannon"

rebs23

Carnacalla wrote: »

Your comments were in fact, incorrect. You really cannot use the words -"when others make riduclous claims about Shannon"

What comments? The ones about Cork losing routes to Shannon I presume after the deal? Did you actually read the comments from the Chairman of the DAA in the links above? Or should we believe a spokesperson for Shannon posting anon on an Internet forum?

JCX BXC

rebs23 wrote: »

What comments? The ones about Cork losing routes to Shannon I presume after the deal? Did you actually read the comments from the Chairman of the DAA in the links above? Or should we believe a spokesperson for Shannon posting anon on an Internet forum?

A spokesperson for Shannon? Ha! That's rich.

No, the comments about the Shannon Development rents. I actually commented on it already, did you read that one?

rebs23

Carnacalla wrote: »

A spokesperson for Shannon? Ha! That's rich.

No, the comments about the Shannon Development rents. I actually commented on it already, did you read that one?

It's pretty simple really the holding company in charge of Shannon Airport get an annual ten roll from the former Shannon Development properties? What is there not to understand or disagree with or how is incorrect to state that this hand over of state property to a company running an Airport gives it a competitive advantage over other Airports?
What is the annual rent roll from these?

There has been plenty of links in this thread from a lot of different sources talking about this point and the unfair competitive advantage handed to Shannon by this government which is resulting in Cork losing flights to Shannon and not being able to offer the same deals. Maybe you should have a read of them?

JCX BXC

Are you suggesting misconduct on behalf of Shannon Airport? That's a very serious claim, would you like to show evidence?


Also, before making all them uneducated claims, read my recent position on Cork Airport.

rebs23

Carnacalla wrote: »

Are you suggesting misconduct on behalf of Shannon Airport? That's a very serious claim, would you like to show evidence?


Also, before making all them uneducated claims, read my recent position on Cork Airport.

Read the following;
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/no-state-funding-lifeline-for-cork-airport-315271.html
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/cork-airport-passenger-numbers-1930643-Feb2015/
They include the following paragraph;
Mr Ó Ríordáin also said Cork Airport was at a disadvantage compared to other airports, pointing out that, during the separation of Shannon Airport from DAA (formerly Dublin Airport Authority), Shannon had €100m in debts written off and now had properties that generated substantial rent.

Misconduct? Uneducated claims? Interesting that someone from the Shannon Region is posting on the Cork City forum in a thread about cork airport so much.

JCX BXC

Mr O Riordan is mistaken, he has not done his research. I have cited this article before for being incorrect.

Also, who are you to tell me where I can post? It seems to be the opinion of you that unless I am 100% supportive of cork airport I should f**k off and not post. Is that not your opinion?

Its fairly obvious that the hostility of your posting shows how you have little points to make so reverting to petty insults fills up the spaces missing by lack of evidence/meaningful points.

I'm behind cork Airport and think it should get a debt wipe, but such myths and hostility spread by the above post do not help anything.

Rhys Essien

Carnacalla wrote: »

Mr O Riordan is mistaken, he has not done his research. I have cited this article before for being incorrect.

Also, who are you to tell me where I can post? It seems to be the opinion of you that unless I am 100% supportive of cork airport I should f**k off and not post. Is that not your opinion?

Its fairly obvious that the hostility of your posting shows how you have little points to make so reverting to petty insults fills up the spaces missing by lack of evidence/meaningful points.

I'm behind cork Airport and think it should get a debt wipe, but such myths and hostility spread by the above post do not help anything.

Why do you continue to spell Cork wrong??.You cant be forgetting the Capital C.:)

leahyl

Guys, to be honest it's a getting a bit annoying all this stupid arguing and reporting posts for the least thing. Can you all please just discuss this civilly and stop resorting to petty comments. Please also remember that the title of the thread is "Lack of new routes at CORK airport" so please keep on topic.

Dannyboy83

This will probably be my last post in this thread, so I intend to sum up my views as follows;

The length of this thread and passion of the posters, regardless of their position, serves as an indictment of the government's refusal to even discuss the issue, nevermind find a resolution. Forums such as boards.ie contine to demonstrate the disconnect between government and the taxpayer/electorate, in a way which was never possible previously.

I don't know how the people of Limerick/Shannon feel on the matter, but the Examiner has commented on the perception of the ongoing neglect of South-West on an increasing basis recently, and the Irish Times are even getting in on the act now.

The Buchanan report on regional development way back in 1968, proposed designating both Cork and Limerick/Shannon as “national growth centres”, to counterbalance the development of Dublin, and that was a feature of the 2002 National Spatial Strategy, all largely ignored by government until, along with the National Development plan, they were scrapped in 2013.

I already made some reference to it way back here, but the government don't have a vision for either Airport beyond Tourism, (and the regional in general apparently), especially not since the development of T2 in Dublin.

The National Planning Framework is supposed to serve as a replacement for the NSS, and is supposed to be available in the next few weeks, for many months now.

Despite this, the South-West is economically outperforming the rest of the country

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpubl.../#.VF5yAPmsV8E

• In Ireland in 2011 the South-West region accounted for 36.2% or €36.7 billion of Irish industrial output. Dublin as a region produced 18.9% or €19.2 billion worth of industrial gross output in 2011.
• South-West, West and Mid-West regions had more persons engaged in foreign owned industrial units than Irish owned in 2011
• Wages and salaries per person engaged in the Industry sector in Ireland in 2011 was highest in the South-West region at €44,800, while the Dublin region was next highest at €44,700.
• Almost €7.9 billion was spent on wages and salaries by industrial units in Ireland in 2011. The South-West region had the highest total spend at €1.5 billion while the Dublin region spent €1.4 billion.
• In 2011, County Cork had the highest value of gross output per person engaged in Ireland at €1.18 million. Mayo and Roscommon combined was the next highest at €0.78 million, while County Dublin was third in the rankings with €0.62 million per person.

The Examiner have been promoting the redevelopment of Cork, but this comes with a caveat - Cork City Developments: Investment in infrastructure is critical...everyone knows a lot of these projects are destined to fail unless the government demonstrate even a modicum of faith in the city/region's future, by at least planning to address the infrastructural problems.

I was opposed to the retrofitting of cycling lanes in the city due to the glaring lack of an orbital road (but they are here now, so we may as well make the best of them), but to the best of my knowledge, even the development of the cycling infrastructure came from majority EU funding and it was a 'use it or lose it' scenario.
Now with the increased congestion in the city and growing population, some breakthrough on the inadequate public transport and parking are more necessary than ever before. I'm not even sure how some of these new developments in the city got the green light given the congestion, but I digress.

I don't know the specifics with regard to Limerick/Shannon, but I'm sure similar comments could be made in that respect. It's never a good sign when foreigners are surprised at the fact that there isn't even a motorway connecting the 2nd and 3rd cities in 2015, lol! ( 'National' Development Plan my hole! )

Shannon are fortunate to have broken free from the government paralysis, but more importantly in my honest opinion they have very clearly demonstrated the inadequacy of the government and the DAA by rapidly turning a misery into a success story.

Cork is still immobilized and will remain so indefinitely, so I feel there is really nothing more to discuss in this thread until that situation changes. My best guess is that Cork will have to suffer much more before it will even be discussed. The core reason being, I feel this specific situation is merely symptomatic (a critical symptom nevertheless) of the overall indifference of yet another Dublin-centric government toward hub strategy and regional development.

I would never expect the regions, or the hubs, to receive the same level of investment or planning, anymore than a London-centric UK government do, and I was fully aware of that reality when I bought a house here, but it increasingly feels the government are divesting themselves of the regions and it's difficult to believe they have a vision, until they at least have a formal plan.
It may seem preposterous to a naturally left leaning population here, but I feel there is a growing understanding that we will, in turn, have to heavily divest ourselves of reliance on national government to facilitate our future growth, and engage heavily in PPP schemes & we will also need stronger (and much more competent) local government.

Outkast_IRE

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Shannon are fortunate to have broken free from the government paralysis, but more importantly in my honest opinion they have very clearly demonstrated the inadequacy of the government and the DAA by rapidly turning a misery into a success story.
.

I agree with quite a lot of your post, and to an extent Shannon can be considered a recent success story, however Shannon is now very tightly under the thumb of Ryanair. It is only a matter of time before Ryanair start turning the screws and demanding further cost reductions etc. etc.

Unfortunately i think that Shannon will end up backing themselves into a corner, however i think it will be many years before we see the full effect.

JCX BXC

So Shannon is strangling Cork while ruining itself?

Outkast_IRE

Carnacalla wrote: »

So Shannon is strangling Cork while ruining itself?

Ryanair, are well known to achieve a dominant position in airports and when the next negotiations for service charges or airport access charges come about, they basically keep demanding lower charges or they will pull out. Its a position too many regional airports find themselves in due to ryanairs antics.

I dont believe Shannon is strangling Cork, to me Cork is not promoting itself adequately.

Just this week i was comparing flights to alicante from Cork with aer lingus and alicante from shannon with ryanair.

The shannon flights were €100 cheaper for 2 people, but by the time you pay for petrol & parking and account for the extra time driving there and back again from cork, the difference is non existant.

To me i think Cork need to step up their game and be given a little more leeway in what their service charges/ airport access charges.

j8wk2feszrnpao

rebs23 wrote: »

As often as necessary especially when others drag it off topic or make ridiculous claims about Shannon and the reason for "the lack of new routes at Cork airport" which is the title of this thread. Amazing the amount of posters on here from the Shannon lobby.

I'm not lobbying Shannon (I'd prefer to see a healthy and thriving Cork airport as it'd benefit me more). Although I do find it funny that you've an issue with Shannon 'lobbyists', and yet you come across as a staunch Cork 'lobbyist'.

Just repeating the same thing over and over, just weakens your argument. I'm not attacking/defending your claim, but do we need to have it regurgitated so often?

rebs23

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I'm not lobbying Shannon (I'd prefer to see a healthy and thriving Cork airport as it'd benefit me more). Although I do find it funny that you've an issue with Shannon 'lobbyists', and yet you come across as a staunch Cork 'lobbyist'.

Just repeating the same thing over and over, just weakens your argument. I'm not attacking/defending your claim, but do we need to have it regurgitated so often?

Well it is a Cork City forum so by it's very nature people on the forum would probably be lobbyists for Cork, especially on this issue which is so serious for the area.
It is worth repeating over and over when the chairman on the DAA says the Shannon deal is a significant problem for the airport and causing "a lack of new routes". So if people claim no routes have been lost to Shannon or claiming thAt elements of the deal are not having an impact on Cork it is worth replying.

rebs23

Carnacalla wrote: »

Mr O Riordan is mistaken, he has not done his research. I have cited this article before for being incorrect.

Also, who are you to tell me where I can post? It seems to be the opinion of you that unless I am 100% supportive of cork airport I should f**k off and not post. Is that not your opinion?

Its fairly obvious that the hostility of your posting shows how you have little points to make so reverting to petty insults fills up the spaces missing by lack of evidence/meaningful points.

I'm behind cork Airport and think it should get a debt wipe, but such myths and hostility spread by the above post do not help anything.

So in summary the Chairman of the DAA is wrong about the impact of the deal. You somehow know more than him about the deal and you are not at all biased because of where you are from.
And you accuse me of insults, being uneducated, hostility, myths, etc.

corkonion

This thread has become like a childish squabble between Cork and Shannon with plenty of personal attacks. Are the moderators on strike here?

JCX BXC

corkonion wrote: »

This thread has become like a childish squabble between Cork and Shannon with plenty of personal attacks. Are the moderators on strike here?

I agree, Shannon shouldn't enter the equation here in the Cork City fourm (Except for vital comparison reasons). It seems some users here can't handle the fact that Cork is having a few bad years and other airports aren't.

JCX BXC

To start a new Issue, I have read on PPRuNe that a carrier is thinking of starting a new weeklu charter to Venice for summer 2016, that'd be interesting.

kub

Interesting that T2 in Dublin is so busy and it only opened recently.

I have to wonder are DAA just concentrating on keeping that place busy and proving to everyone it is a success than to be bothered about a small rural airport like Cork?

Of course the boss of DAA is going to blame Shannon, he is hardly going to say that they themselves are too busy promoting Dublin even to Cork people.

JCX BXC

kub wrote: »

Of course the boss of DAA is going to blame Shannon, he is hardly going to say that they themselves are too busy promoting Dublin even to Cork people.

If I had to continued to argue, that would have been my point. The DAA chairman knows well what happened, but he's one of the few, so he can effectively tell the media what he wants.

Also may I ask, is there any real need for Cork to be open overnight during the winter? Its not a diversion airport, nor does it get any flights between 12am and 6am. If you were to close the Airport from 12-4am would it save a bit in flight costs?