Lack of new routes at Cork airport

imurdaddy

kub wrote: »

Interesting that T2 in Dublin is so busy and it only opened recently.

I have to wonder are DAA just concentrating on keeping that place busy and proving to everyone it is a success than to be bothered about a small rural airport like Cork?

Of course the boss of DAA is going to blame Shannon, he is hardly going to say that they themselves are too busy promoting Dublin even to Cork people.

After 81 pages the nail has been hit!

kub

Carnacalla wrote: »

If I had to continued to argue, that would have been my point. The DAA chairman knows well what happened, but he's one of the few, so he can effectively tell the media what he wants.

Also may I ask, is there any real need for Cork to be open overnight during the winter? Its not a diversion airport, nor does it get any flights between 12am and 6am. If you were to close the Airport from 12-4am would it save a bit in flight costs?

I once worked for a man that worked in Cork airport back in the 1960's, during that time there were very little flights operating there.
He told me that, they went up in the morning to open the place for a few hours as the Aer Lingus flight used to arrive from London, when it took off again, they locked the place up and closed the farm gate out at the main road on the way out.
I fear the future might be like that again.

Just on your query about it been open through the night, i fail to see why as you have pointed out it is not a diversion airport, considering of course the length of the runway at Shannon.
I wonder has it more to do with the refueling of Coast Guard helicopters that may be operating in the South West and also as a place where those same helicopters can land in order to transfer patients to ambulances as there is no place for them to land at one of the few level 1 trauma hospitals in this country.
However that is a whole other issue.

kub

imurdaddy wrote: »

After 81 pages the nail has been hit!

Might I add, afaik that same gentleman is from Cork.

JCX BXC

Its not really a diversion airport, I have not yet heard of a diversion to Cork in 2015.

Even if I'm mistaken and there has been one, how many diversions take place between 12-6am?

kub

Carnacalla wrote: »

Its not really a diversion airport, I have not yet heard of a diversion to Cork in 2015.

Even if I'm mistaken and there has been one, how many diversions take place between 12-6am?

But it is a diversion airport.........but the other way around when its foggy .

imurdaddy

Alot of regionals in the uk close overnight probably more due to noise abatement etc, I dont see anything wrong in closing at night if theres no flights! it would surely help reduce overheads? But maybe theres a reason ORK stays open at night?

I live close to SNN under RW24 approach and some nights after 9/10pm theres nothing going in or out, its only the fact it's a diversion airport that keeps it open 24hrs, if ORK or SNN could do the pax numbers they have atm on a reduced working day it would be a good outcome I think.

kub

Surely ATC and Rescue crews must be available to The Coast Guard helicopter that operates from SNN.
Also isn't SNN a recognised diversion airport for planes flying over Ireland?

imurdaddy

kub wrote: »

Surely ATC and Rescue crews must be available to The Coast Guard helicopter that operates from SNN.
Also isn't SNN a recognised diversion airport for planes flying over Ireland?

It is thats what keeps it open 24hr, the main air traffic control is in Ballycasey not the airport it's self, so with no traffic at night the tower wouldn't need to be open and I presume the coastguard can work with Ballycasey Atc, Another thing I suppose is the maintenance and overhaul businesses would probably prefer 24hr opening. The rescue service would be definitely needed for the coastguard allright, there are a fair amount of diversions to SNN every year, one day last week there was 3, I wonder is there much to be made from them?

rebs23

kub wrote: »

Interesting that T2 in Dublin is so busy and it only opened recently.

I have to wonder are DAA just concentrating on keeping that place busy and proving to everyone it is a success than to be bothered about a small rural airport like Cork?

Of course the boss of DAA is going to blame Shannon, he is hardly going to say that they themselves are too busy promoting Dublin even to Cork people.

First of all Cork is not a "rural" Airport.
Secondly Cork's main and nearest competitor is Shannon hence all the talk about the Shannon deal which many feel hands our nearest competitor an unfair competitive advantage.

JCX BXC

rebs23 wrote: »

First of all Cork is not a "rural" Airport.
Secondly Cork's main and nearest competitor is Shannon hence all the talk about the Shannon deal which many feel hands our nearest competitor an unfair competitive advantage.

What about Kerry and Waterford?

munchkin_utd

I think a lot of the problem with cork airport is that it has a market to fill planes in the busy peak summer season but during the winter theres just not enough traffic to keep flights going.

Or better way of putting it, city destinations like Munich are very busy in the Summer but not all that busy in the Winter.
In comparison Aer Lingus can put on 2 flights a day from Dublin all year round and they are full thanks to business travellers even in the depths of Winter, along with Lufthansa with a daily flight and Ryanair operating to "Munich West" from Dublin.

So, the catchment of Dublin can fill 28 dublin departures to Munich in a week, and Cork barely manages 2.

Shannon to "Munich West" has 3 flights a week, and aside from peak of summer school holidays, they appear to be very slack and even for oktoberfest theres insanely low prices (probably the only cheap flights to Munich from anywhere in the world for that time of year!)

That's sort of telling.
There's so much you can blame the DAA for, but if Cork (/ the south west in general) cannot fill planes then the services and resources won't be allocated.

Ludo

munchkin_utd wrote: »

In comparison Aer Lingus can put on 2 flights a day from Dublin all year round and they are full thanks to business travellers even in the depths of Winter, along with Lufthansa with a daily flight and Ryanair operating to "Munich West" from Dublin.

So, the catchment of Dublin can fill 28 dublin departures to Munich in a week, and Cork barely manages 2.

The flights are Saturday and Tuesday (from next month). Those are not ideal in fairness and dont make it an enticing trip for a weekend break. Now I know planes are not available at all times but I would imagine thursday or friday and sunday would do a lot better. A gang of us are discussing a trip to europe for a weekend at the moment. Munich was first choice until we saw the days available. They are useless.

highlydebased

In what is bound to be unpopular news, Cork-Newcastle being pruned from 4 to 2 per week and Cork-Glasgow from 5 to 4 per week to accommodate SNN-Birmingham

kub

rebs23 wrote: »

First of all Cork is not a "rural" Airport.
Secondly Cork's main and nearest competitor is Shannon hence all the talk about the Shannon deal which many feel hands our nearest competitor an unfair competitive advantage.

It is when you look at it from Dublin Airport.

JCX BXC

highlydebased wrote: »

In what is bound to be unpopular news, Cork-Newcastle being pruned from 4 to 2 per week and Cork-Glasgow from 5 to 4 per week to accommodate SNN-Birmingham

For the record, Shannon suffered a FAR larger loss.

rebs23

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/flights-to-newcastle-and-glasgow-to-be-reduced/

"The Deputy Lord Mayor of Cork Cllr Kenneth O’Flynn said it was time for all Cork TDs to put together a final decision with regard to the €200m debt attached to the airport. “Management at the airport are doing their best but they have their hands tied behind their backs,” he said. “Cork Airport will not survive until that elephant in the room is dealt with. We are not operating on a level playing field.”

paulhardman

highlydebased wrote: »

In what is bound to be unpopular news, Cork-Newcastle being pruned from 4 to 2 per week and Cork-Glasgow from 5 to 4 per week to accommodate SNN-Birmingham

But gaining Cork-Rennes and Cork-Jersey - although not sure on the frequency.

JCX BXC

paulhardman wrote: »

But gaining Cork-Rennes and Cork-Jersey - although not sure on the frequency.

No gain, its the same as last summer, at 2pw.

KCAccidental

kub wrote: »

It is when you look at it from Dublin Airport.

and therein lies the problem!

corkonion

DAA chairman designate Pádraig Ó Ríordáin told an Oireachtas Transport Committee that the southern hub was now in danger of being overtaken as Ireland’s second-busiest airport, and said it is a ”world-class product” that was faced with the “challenging situation” of terminally-declining traffic figures.,
He revealed passenger numbers last year fell nearly 5% to 2.1 million. That figure is about 15% down on the 2.43 million passengers who used the airport in 2010.
In contrast, Shannon Airport’s total passenger numbers last year grew 17% to 1.64 million.
Ó Ríordáin said much of the drop had come because Ryanair had re-routed many of its eastern European flights to Shannon, which was made independent of the DAA in 2013.
Traffic at Cork has continued to decline despite the fact that airport charges at Cork have not increased in more than 10 years and are highly competitive when compared to Cork’s peers in Britain and central Europe,” he said.

Bacchus

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I think a lot of the problem with cork airport is that it has a market to fill planes in the busy peak summer season but during the winter theres just not enough traffic to keep flights going.

Or better way of putting it, city destinations like Munich are very busy in the Summer but not all that busy in the Winter.
In comparison Aer Lingus can put on 2 flights a day from Dublin all year round and they are full thanks to business travellers even in the depths of Winter, along with Lufthansa with a daily flight and Ryanair operating to "Munich West" from Dublin.

Not that I disagree with your point entirely but Cork has a booming IT sector at the moment with a lot of businesses adding staff or opening new offices here. There should be plenty of "business travelers" that would make good use of routes from Cork. Keeping the current routes open and adding new ones is important in terms of attracting new businesses to Cork. Instead we're seeing routes being dropped.

The problem is the debt on the airport. Having to pay that off is keeping costs high which are passed on to airlines. I'm sure there are politics at play too but writing off the debt would go a long way to bringing back some routes to Cork.

draiochtanois

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Bacchus

draiochtanois wrote: »

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UK, many parts of Europe, middle east & Asia are also important routes. For the middle east and Asia, there are other hubs you can fly to directly from Cork that will service those destinations. Those routes are there at the moment but it is a bit unsettling to see routes getting dropped. One affects the other, fewer routes potentially diminishes the appeal of Cork as a location to set up shop. Fewer businesses mean no increase in demand for routes... etc.

The infrastructure should be in place to attract business, not the other way around.

draiochtanois

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keithclancy

draiochtanois wrote: »

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The runway is too small for that distance and you'd need to be a major hub to make it financially feasible.

Bacchus

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Well both of the last two companies I've worked with do (on a regular basis). I'm not going naming names but they are two big IT companies in Cork. It's not just people going out either, it's customers and partners coming in. I've worked for UCC too and the European routes serviced by Cork airport have been a great resource.

My point is that it is important for continued growth and attraction of new businesses to the Cork region to have a airport that services as many destinations as possible. It just looks at the moment that the trend is that Cork is losing routes. That cannot continue.

Whatever you want to pin down as THE reason for the lack of routes, it is not a positive thing for attracting business to be cutting routes.

draiochtanois

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Bacchus

Yup, Shannon had their debt removed when numbers were dwindling and now it's on track to outpace Cork airport only a few years later. Something similar for Cork airport would make it more competitive.

keithclancy

draiochtanois wrote: »

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I would guess since a few companies have their European Offices here e.g.
Apple, EMC, VMware, ABEC, Redhat, Adecco, Boston Scientific, Stryker, Pfizer, Matrox, Avery Dennison, SolarWinds to name a few.

I know VMware/EMC have offices all over the EMEA region. for one.
Apple would be another big one.

Bacchus

keithclancy wrote: »

I would guess since a few companies have their European Offices here e.g.
Apple, EMC, VMware, ABEC, Redhat, Adecco, Boston Scientific, Stryker, Pfizer, Matrox, Avery Dennison, SolarWinds to name a few.

I know VMware/EMC have offices all over the EMEA region. for one.
Apple would be another big one.

Dell, Tyco, VCE, Trend Micro, Intel Security (aka McAfee), Amazon & Qualcomm to name a few more.