Why is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

alastair

Again - this bag of guff is cookie-cutter US-inspired wingnuttery, just in this case presented by a particularly inept messenger.

Islamophobia - check
Anti-immigrant rhetoric - check
Anti multi-culturalism - check
Accusations of 'moral relativism' - check
Swedish rape stats offered as part of anti-Islamic pitch - check (Swedish rape reporting and categorisation works differently to all other nations - and when treated within the same terms, shows pretty much typical European levels of sexual assault) - check.
Offence at supports for the developing world - check
'Liberal agenda' - check

It's cartoon xenophobia, with the aforementioned twist of Ayn Rand. See the conveniently linked Pamela Geller for the mother load.

Cedrus

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Egypt which is run by mostly muslim mysoginistic psychopathic brainwashed allah loving men,have recently voted in a ''farewell law''....You know after killing your wife or whatever you can have sex with her corpse up to six hours after her death...But guys whos counting :rolleyes:


And heres the link you so desperately want: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2135434/Egypts-plans-farewell-intercourse-law-husbands-sex-DEAD-wives-branded-completely

Of course because its from the daily mail you are going to rag on about that arent ya

Stick to the handbag and fascion* shopping chickapoo, forget about the real world you're not up to it (*or should that be fashion, or even fascism?). Of course your fancy handbag will probably have been made by a durty pig hating mooslim. Enjoy it.

Scofflaw

Cedrus wrote: »

Stick to the handbag and fascion* shopping chickapoo, forget about the real world you're not up to it (*or should that be fashion, or even fascism?). Of course your fancy handbag will probably have been made by a durty pig hating mooslim. Enjoy it.

Do not respond to objectionable posts with posts that are themselves objectionable, because it's not an excuse.

1 week ban.

moderately,
Scofflaw

mikemorano

infosys wrote: »

The figure for Ireland does not tally with CSO figures. Also the Irish figures includes NI born resident in the Republic, excluding UK nationals the Irish figure is less than 10%. The figure quoted for UK at under 9% is from 2001 the current figure is 12%.

The welfare argument does not tally. UK immigration has remaind static to Ireland. EU members have no right to SW I will say it again "Habitial residence". A EU national cannot just arrive and claim unemployment, they can come looking for work but can not claim unemployment.

If you also look at the nationmaster figure for immigration % in ireland you will discover its source is Wikipedia. I think I'll stick with the CSO rather than a wiki page. So in fact our % is less than USA, UK and Germany.

The reason I am quoting these figures is to show the difference that exists. The link below I believ shows a more true result.
You take traditional immigrant countries like UK,Germany and the USA now have a lower immigrant population than Ireland . They also have lower unemployment .

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_imm_pop_imm_as_per_of_sta_pop-immigrant-population-immigrants-percentage-state

Immigration CSO stats
http://cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2013/

Immigration Eurostat
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics#Further_Eurostat_information

PPS numbers issued Welfare.ie
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Statistics-on-Numbers-Issued.aspx

Whay are they still coming to Ireland ? To work . :cool:

Pro Hoc Vice

mikemorano wrote: »

The reason I am quoting these figures is to show the difference that exists. The link below I believ shows a more true result.
You take traditional immigrant countries like UK,Germany and the USA now have a lower immigrant population than Ireland . They also have lower unemployment .

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_imm_pop_imm_as_per_of_sta_pop-immigrant-population-immigrants-percentage-state

Immigration
http://cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2013/
CSO stats

PPS numbers issued Welfare.ie
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Statistics-on-Numbers-Issued.aspx

Whay are they still coming to Ireland ? To work . :cool:

Wikipedia is never a good source they give the figure for total number of immigrants which is higher than CSO. But even accepting the figure of excess of 13% we still have more people working in the economy than ever before. The migration figures show people coming for two reasons within Europe we are in recession but low paid jobs are available and funny at the other end in Tech jobs their is a skills shortage.

PPS numbers mean nothing, it gives no right to work and are given to non economically active people. A person arrives here to work as a doctor, her husband and 3 children come that's 5 PPS numbers only one worker.

If you believe there is an issue how do you intend to stop the inflow. Are you going to restrict UK movement, EU movement both of which make up the bulk.

I have just double checked OECD the source for the % figure in Nationmaster it gives a figure of over 15% including irish born abroad and 11.2% for foregin nationals.

Koch

Immigration is good for big business. That the taxpayer has to pick up the tab from the fall-out is irrelevant to the beneficiaries of immigration.

Koch

mikemorano wrote: »

Whay are they still coming to Ireland ? To work . :cool:

Landing in Ireland is like winning the Lotto to some people.

I was queueing up to buy stamps before Christmas and there was about three momas in front of me holding up the whole place because they were filling out Western Union forms.

Social Welfare recipients should be given a Visa card that can only be used for certain items. That would soon put a stop to this welfare-induced migration.

Phoebas

Koch wrote: »

Landing in Ireland is like winning the Lotto to some people.

I was queueing up to buy stamps before Christmas and there was about three momas in front of me holding up the whole place because they were filling out Western Union forms.

Social Welfare recipients should be given a Visa card that can only be used for certain items. That would soon put a stop to this welfare-induced migration.

What the hell has that got to do with anything? Some other people were once in front of you in the queue at the post office, therefore social welfare recipients need to be given visa cards ... how has any of that got anything to do with immigration?

Pro Hoc Vice

Koch wrote: »

Landing in Ireland is like winning the Lotto to some people.

I was queueing up to buy stamps before Christmas and there was about three momas in front of me holding up the whole place because they were filling out Western Union forms.

Social Welfare recipients should be given a Visa card that can only be used for certain items. That would soon put a stop to this welfare-induced migration.

I'm self employed and have used western union so.

kidneyfan

Koch wrote: »

Social Welfare recipients should be given a Visa card that can only be used for certain items. That would soon put a stop to this welfare-induced migration.

Cash should be eliminated entirely. All transactions should be traceable chip and pin.
Cash enables crime.

Nodin

Koch wrote: »

Landing in Ireland is like winning the Lotto to some people.

I was queueing up to buy stamps before Christmas and there was about three momas in front of me holding up the whole place because they were filling out Western Union forms.

Social Welfare recipients should be given a Visa card that can only be used for certain items. That would soon put a stop to this welfare-induced migration.

You can't arrive and claim as has been pointed out before.

mikemorano

infosys wrote: »

Wikipedia is never a good source they give the figure for total number of immigrants which is higher than CSO. But even accepting the figure of excess of 13% we still have more people working in the economy than ever before. The migration figures show people coming for two reasons within Europe we are in recession but low paid jobs are available and funny at the other end in Tech jobs their is a skills shortage.

PPS numbers mean nothing, it gives no right to work and are given to non economically active people. A person arrives here to work as a doctor, her husband and 3 children come that's 5 PPS numbers only one worker.

Taken for Citizenship Information website.http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

But, if you were born outside Ireland, and your parent was an Irish citizen who was also born outside Ireland, you'll have to register with the Department of Foreign Affairs or an Irish embassy to become a citizen.
You can claim Irish citizenship if one Grandparent or Great Grandparent is an Irish citizen. In the UK and Germany this extends to parents only !!!!!
I did see a detailed breakdown for this but are these people actually living here or just get the passport for convenience .


If you believe there is an issue how do you intend to stop the inflow. Are you going to restrict UK movement, EU movement both of which make up the bulk.

I have just double checked OECD the source for the % figure in Nationmaster it gives a figure of over 15% including irish born abroad and 11.2% for foregin nationals.

I am not sure of your agends on this . I assume you want a free movement of all nationalities and see no problem with the disparity between immigration and emigration in Ireland. We have seen on TV emigrats returning here for Christmas and wanting to stay but no jobs.
I think if it was put to a referendum a true picure of Irish feeling would emerge.

The undisputed figure for non Irish is 556000 CSO . The population is 4.589 million CSO.
The non Irish percentage is 12.3 %

Taken for Citizenship Information website.
If you had an Irish-born grandparent, you may still become a citizen. But, you'll have to provide proof of direct kinship.

But, if you were born outside Ireland, and your parent was an Irish citizen who was also born outside Ireland, you'll have to register with the Department of Foreign Affairs or an Irish embassy to become a citizen.


PPS numbers mean nothing to you perhaps but it means more people in the country put simply. For every one more will follow.

Immigration is not harmful but when is the limit ? Welfare can be claimed by dependents of EU nationals.Eg you can bring your mama here for a better pension rate.Then after time just move home and still claim it.Not checked .

This country still has the highest birth rate in Europe compared to other EU who see a decline. The reason they want immigration.

The Immigration and Asylum still need to close loopholes .
To end the Asylum system is the ideal but a single procedure does need to be adopted.
The leave to remain is given to few but if you apply for it a decision can take many years especially if you leave the asylum system .A convenient way to remain.
There is no Freedom to Marry Cert required for Marriage or Civil Partnership in Ireland.
An exit stamp should be put on visa applicants leaving Ireland.

mikemorano

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

To gain Citizenship in Ireland extends to even one Grandparent being an Irish citizen. !!!!

In Germany and the UK the parent or parents need to be citizens it does not extend to granparents or great grandparents !!!! .

Nodin

mikemorano wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

To gain Citizenship in Ireland extends to even one Grandparent being an Irish citizen. !!!!

In Germany and the UK the parent or parents need to be citizens it does not extend to granparents or great grandparents !!!! .

....and your point.....

Pro Hoc Vice

mikemorano wrote: »

I am not sure of your agends on this . I assume you want a free movement of all nationalities and see no problem with the disparity between immigration and emigration in Ireland. We have seen on TV emigrats returning here for Christmas and wanting to stay but no jobs.
I think if it was put to a referendum a true picure of Irish feeling would emerge.

The undisputed figure for non Irish is 556000 CSO . The population is 4.589 million CSO.
The non Irish percentage is 12.3 %

Taken for Citizenship Information website.
If you had an Irish-born grandparent, you may still become a citizen. But, you'll have to provide proof of direct kinship.

But, if you were born outside Ireland, and your parent was an Irish citizen who was also born outside Ireland, you'll have to register with the Department of Foreign Affairs or an Irish embassy to become a citizen.


PPS numbers mean nothing to you perhaps but it means more people in the country put simply. For every one more will follow.

Immigration is not harmful but when is the limit ? Welfare can be claimed by dependents of EU nationals.Eg you can bring your mama here for a better pension rate.Then after time just move home and still claim it.Not checked .

This country still has the highest birth rate in Europe compared to other EU who see a decline. The reason they want immigration.

The Immigration and Asylum still need to close loopholes .
To end the Asylum system is the ideal but a single procedure does need to be adopted.
The leave to remain is given to few but if you apply for it a decision can take many years especially if you leave the asylum system .A convenient way to remain.
There is no Freedom to Marry Cert required for Marriage or Civil Partnership in Ireland.
An exit stamp should be put on visa applicants leaving Ireland.

I have been saying 12%. The right of a EU citizen to enter and reside is a working right. A retired person can only come and reside if independent and maintains private health care.

I agree with the Common Travel Area we have 112,000 people here from the UK. I agree with free movement of workers and same should be kept as free movement of workers, remember the treaties do not say people they say workers.

In relation to other immigration the system is aimed at high skilled workers.

Don't see the problem with grandparent citizenship in fact as long as each generation registers then for generation after generation they can maintain citizenship.

alastair

mikemorano wrote: »

Immigration is not harmful but when is the limit ? Welfare can be claimed by dependents of EU nationals.Eg you can bring your mama here for a better pension rate.Then after time just move home and still claim it.Not checked .

Firstly, anyone entitled to a pension here has to adhere to the normal habitual residency rules. Secondly any pension entitlement is either based on PRSI stamps paid (no problem there) or on a non-contributory basis, determined by existing welfare coverage. Any pension that a non-national is entitled to on that basis is paid for by the countries that they were resident in, and on the basis of period of residence - so any recent arrivals would essentially just get their home pension paid to them here, funded by their home state. If there was an Irish contribution, it would only be for the percentage of their residency in Ireland - not the whole thing. And yes - they can move that pension abroad with them, but it's certainly checked, as you have to explicitly arrange it's payment abroad.

There's simply no room for abusing the pension system as it's currently operated. People are only paid their entitlement - nothing more.

woodoo

alastair wrote: »

Islamophobia - check.

Read the comments in this piece. Maybe the people aren't all on your side and have genuine concerns.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/islam-to-become-irelands-second-religion-by-2043-29874239.html

Nodin

woodoo wrote: »

Read the comments in this piece. Maybe the people aren't all on your side and have genuine concerns.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/islam-to-become-irelands-second-religion-by-2043-29874239.html

Like the comment that goes

"Mary Robinson, that great beacon of privileged self-important anti-Catholic bigotry started the rot when she refused to cover her head during a Papal audience in the 90s. "

or maybe

"Gilmore would gladly hand the country over to the Mullahs if he could get rid of the Catholic Church at the same time. Time will tell how very wrong he was."

It might be that your notion of what constitutes 'genuine concern' and other peoples are not one in the same.

O, and we don't have mass immigration from muslim states, btw.

alastair

woodoo wrote: »

Read the comments in this piece. Maybe the people aren't all on your side and have genuine concerns.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/islam-to-become-irelands-second-religion-by-2043-29874239.html

Oh no! Atheism is growing in popularity in Ireland!

Oh wait...

Oh no! Islam is growing in popularity in Ireland!

Now that's a reason for 'genuine concern'. Just 'cause.

woodoo

alastair wrote: »

Now that's a reason for 'genuine concern'. Just 'cause.

Look at the amount of people who agree with the posts. If the majority of people disagreed with them you would see a large minus number. It is clear how the people feel about mass immigration and the growth of Islam here.

alastair

woodoo wrote: »

Look at the amount of people who agree with the posts. If the majority of people disagreed with them you would see a large minus number. It is clear how the people feel about mass immigration and the growth of Islam here.

It's clear how a few dozen self-selecting readers feel about an idiotic comments thread all right. I won't worry myself about it unduly. I particularly like how one poster pointed out the inaccuracy of the Indo headline and core claim of the article though.

Nodin

woodoo wrote: »

Look at the amount of people who agree with the posts. If the majority of people disagreed with them you would see a large minus number. It is clear how the people feel about mass immigration and the growth of Islam here.

There are people who have strong feelings about trees that move when people aren't watching as well.

mikemorano

Nodin wrote: »

....and your point.....

Its a loophole that is easily exploited.

mikemorano

Reply to INFOSYS post below.
PPS numbers mean nothing, it gives no right to work and are given to non economically active people. A person arrives here to work as a doctor, her husband and 3 children come that's 5 PPS numbers only one worker.




You give just one example and do not show detailed statistics .

Frank Grimes

mikemorano wrote: »

Its a loophole that is easily exploited.

It's not a loophole, it's one of the criteria for Irish citizenship. How is it "easily exploited"?

Frank Grimes

mikemorano wrote: »

You give just one example and do not show detailed statistics .

What detailed statistics are you looking for exactly?

mikemorano

alastair wrote: »

Firstly, anyone entitled to a pension here has to adhere to the normal habitual residency rules. Secondly any pension entitlement is either based on PRSI stamps paid (no problem there) or on a non-contributory basis, determined by existing welfare coverage. Any pension that a non-national is entitled to on that basis is paid for by the countries that they were resident in, and on the basis of period of residence - so any recent arrivals would essentially just get their home pension paid to them here, funded by their home state. If there was an Irish contribution, it would only be for the percentage of their residency in Ireland - not the whole thing. And yes - they can move that pension abroad with them, but it's certainly checked, as you have to explicitly arrange it's payment abroad.

There's simply no room for abusing the pension system as it's currently operated. People are only paid their entitlement - nothing more.

So there is no fraud in the welfare pension system . !

The woman is from Latvia lived and worked here for 5 years ,became unemployed got JSA.
Then she claimed her mother was living alone in Latvia without anyone to care for her . The mother came here and for the HRC but still moved back to Latvia during the 2 years . The mother now gets a non contributory pension and lives for 6 months in Latvia with her daughter at present.

mikemorano

Frank Grimes wrote: »

What detailed statistics are you looking for exactly?

Logic would suggest there are many not living here with Irish Passports .
The Habitual Residence is not a barrier for someone to get welfare and is easily overcome should they decide to do so..
Details of those who are granted passports from great grand parents and grandparents and living abroad .

Frank Grimes

mikemorano wrote: »

So there is no fraud in the welfare pension system . !

The woman is from Latvia lived and worked here for 5 years ,became unemployed got JSA.
Then she claimed her mother was living alone in Latvia without anyone to care for her . The mother came here and for the HRC but still moved back to Latvia during the 2 years . The mother now gets a non contributory pension and lives for 6 months in Latvia with her daughter at present.

If you suspect fraud then report it to the DSP and let them decide and take action if necessary.

Frank Grimes

mikemorano wrote: »

Logic would suggest there are many not living here with Irish Passports .
The Habitual Residence is not a barrier for someone to get welfare and is easily overcome should they decide to do so..

What does this have to do with PPS numbers and what detailed statistics are you looking for exactly?