Saorview Connect

Tony

Of course and if that's your preference then you should have this choice, again though many people don't like an extra remote and source selection so they go with combos which are also cheaper than two boxes (less so obviously with a saorview enabled tv) albeit with the sacrifice of some features.

As far as I can tell Saorview connect combo is aimed squarely at those who currently have combos and will benefit from auto update and backwards saorview EPG, two features they currently do not have.

gsmith- wrote: »

There's plenty of us happy enough with having separate boxes for freesat and saorview also.

FRIENDO

It will most definitely be an Attraction:

If the new saorview combo box comes with a roll back function on the epg for Saorview/Saorsat channels.

Player apps like Rte, TV3, Utv Ireland, TG4 and Netflix.

Serial link and a recording function similar to a freesat hdr.

A seven day epg for freesat channels, (which has already been achieved on Walker Saorview/Saorsat approved stb's.)

Auto updating of channel's

Yamanoto

FRIENDO wrote: »

Serial link and a recording function similar to a freesat hdr.

Only on the terrestrial side.

FRIENDO wrote: »

A seven day epg for freesat channels..

Won't be available on the Saorview connect boxes.

Sam Russell

Yamanoto wrote: »

Only on the terrestrial side.



Won't be available on the Saorview connect boxes.

As I predicted - disappointment - yet again.

Tony

I guess we'll see whether the buying public will share your disappointment or not.

Sam Russell wrote: »

As I predicted - disappointment - yet again.

givecredit

Tony wrote: »

I guess we'll see whether the buying public will share your disappointment or not.

Hopefully, somehow they will come up with a way for now and next info to appear for satellite channels without having to actually tune into each transponder. Nothing worse than looking at a blank TV guide for satellite.

Tony

That's definitely possible as the EIT data could be collated centrally and then sent via the existing datastream.

givecredit wrote: »

Hopefully, somehow they will come up with a way for now and next info to appear for satellite channels without having to actually tune into each transponder. Nothing worse than looking at a blank TV guide for satellite.

Johnboy1951

givecredit wrote: »

Hopefully, somehow they will come up with a way for now and next info to appear for satellite channels without having to actually tune into each transponder. Nothing worse than looking at a blank TV guide for satellite.

I dunno why they could not get the 7 day epg data for the majority of the Sat channels.

Tigerandahalf

If they don't have the 7 day epg for freesat the box will be a huge letdown but I wasn't expecting them to bring a proper box to the market anyway. Many people just watch catchup tv on their tablets so the Connect service may not appeal.

A big draw would be the previous 7 days on catchup. I think a lot of people might like that. But with broadband speeds being very poor outside urban areas the product may not work out well.

Most people will go down the bundle route with one of the broadband providers.

The Cush

Metaphor, the commercialized and marketed version of Freesat's Freetime HBBtv solution for international users and already licensed to Saorview and Tivùsat in Italy is to debut at the TV Connect show in London (26-28 April).

I'm guessing this is where we'll see the first Saorview Connect receiver on display. No better way to display a software product than have a working model on display.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2016/04/13/freesat-takes-metaphor-to-tv-connect/
http://www.digitaltveurope.net/525592/freesat-to-showcase-smart-tv-guide-for-third-party-operators/

Tony

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I dunno why they could not get the 7 day epg data for the majority of the Sat channels.

Because Saorview do not own or control the freesat EPG data.

corm500

Tony wrote: »

Because Saorview do not own or control the freesat EPG data.

However Freesat, the company who won the contract to develop the connect box, do.

Tony

Correct and up to this point in time they (Freesat) have not granted permission for its use as far as I'm aware.

corm500 wrote: »

However Freesat, the company who won the contract to develop the connect box, do.

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

Correct and up to this point in time they (Freesat) have not granted permission for its use as far as I'm aware.

So it seems that the 'Saorview' box is tied to Freesat presentation of the data, but that is not available for use?

The point is that the data is available without the need for any Freesat involvement, and if it is not made available then it is a huge 'FAIL' on the part of the designers of the STB.

If the Freesat version of the data is not incorporated in the box then the only(?) important thing from Freesat in the box is the auto tune of the channels.

I cannot see why such a half-assed scheme would be attempted.
Why hook up with Freesat if some important elements of their service is not going to be made available?

Does not make sense to me.

corm500

I would like it to going to the best restaurant in Dublin but they will only sell you a starter. It's all a bit bizarre tbh. Someone in Saorview has questions to answer if this is the deal they brokered.

Johnboy1951

Just read the links posted by The Cush and it seems the only Freesat involvement mentioned there for RTÉ, is the provision of Methaphor, which is specifically for a video on demand type service, and nothing at all to do with Freesat Satellite service

---

IF I READ IT CORRECTLY.

IF that is the case it should leave it open to Saorview to provide its own version of a 7 day EPG for Sat channels.

BUT it would also mean the box would not be self tuning when channels change transponder (unless RTE does their own version which is highly unlikely I think).


Is it clear to anyone how much involvement Freesat have in this new Saorview STB?

Is it only Methaphor or are other elements of Freesat services also included?

Tony

As far as I can tell the 7 day epg was not made part of the tender for saorview and honestly its hard to see how it could be as Saorview were seeking help in developing their own platform and had to be open to many companies competing for the work . The data is available its using it without permission of the owner that is the problem. Its nothing to do with the design of the STB. Its hardly half assed if Saorview achieve their objective which is to move forward from generic boxes. Freesat won the contract that was put out to tender, this does not place any obligation on them to share their EPG.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So it seems that the 'Saorview' box is tied to Freesat presentation of the data, but that is not available for use?

The point is that the data is available without the need for any Freesat involvement, and if it is not made available then it is a huge 'FAIL' on the part of the designers of the STB.

If the Freesat version of the data is not incorporated in the box then the only(?) important thing from Freesat in the box is the auto tune of the channels.

I cannot see why such a half-assed scheme would be attempted.
Why hook up with Freesat if some important elements of their service is not going to be made available?

Does not make sense to me.

Tony

No deal was brokered it was a contract put out to tender.

corm500 wrote: »

I would like it to going to the best restaurant in Dublin but they will only sell you a starter. It's all a bit bizarre tbh. Someone in Saorview has questions to answer if this is the deal they brokered.

Tony

As far as I know only metaphor is part of the contract. The channel update will come from saorview by way of a database contained in a datastream to my knowledge.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is it only Methaphor or are other elements of Freesat services also included?

The Cush

Tony wrote: »

As far as I know only metaphor is part of the contract.

That was my understanding also with a sat combi an added feature/option by Saorview.

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

As far as I know only metaphor is part of the contract. The channel update will come from saorview by way of a database contained in a datastream to my knowledge.

I guess you mean the Sat channels tuning changes will be covered by this arrangement.
That sounds great.

Thanks for the confirmation that Methaphor for the video on demand service is the only Freesat involvement in the new STB.

The data is available its using it without permission of the owner that is the problem.

You reckon the 'data owners' ..... who would be the individual channel owners as I understand it ...... would not make their EPG available to all users?
While I understand that the Freesat method of presenting that data to the user is copyrighted and not made available to others, the data it displays can be presented to the user in another form without hindrance, I believe.
In which case a 7 day SAT EPG could be available on the box.

Tony

It could be with agreement from the owners . I think earlier in the thread someone mentioned the idea of licensing the information in a similar way to RTE guide and other magazines of the time.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

While I understand that the Freesat method of presenting that data to the user is copyrighted and not made available to others, the data it displays can be presented to the user in another form without hindrance, I believe.
In which case a 7 day SAT EPG could be available on the box.

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

It could be with agreement from the owners . I think earlier in the thread someone mentioned the idea of licensing the information in a similar way to RTE guide and other magazines of the time.

Indeed, and this is the point I wished to make ...... if the new STB does not do this then it is going to be sadly lacking in a very important area.

I am unsure if this data requires a licence from most channels or not, or if it is freely available.
I haven't read anything to convince me either way.
It appears to be freely available ......

Tony

Again and not to labour the point its the use of the information thats the impediment, the stb can do anything you want it to do from a technology standpoint. "freely available" is a very lose term these days, you can download a movie but you commit an offence if you don't pay the owner for its use.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I
It appears to be freely available ......

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

Again and not to labour the point its the use of the information thats the impediment, the stb can do anything you want it to do from a technology standpoint. "freely available" is a very lose term these days, you can download a movie but you commit an offence if you don't pay the owner for its use.

This I find difficult to comprehend ...... and have not read anything to indicate it is so.
Do you have any reference you can link to that confirms this?

I would think it is in the individuals channel's interest to have their EPG carried fully on as many 'outlets' as possible. Their usual method of funding is by advert revenue, so the more who know about the channel and watch the better the revenue stream.

I am of course addressing the raw data and not some particular method of presenting it to a user, such as the Freesat EPG.

Tony

There are no links or any public content on this issue to my knowledge. Why would there be, its commercially sensitive. As a test you might email freesat and ask them if they will licence their EPG , I seriously doubt you will get a favourable reply.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

This I find difficult to comprehend ...... and have not read anything to indicate it is so.
Do you have any reference you can link to that confirms this?

SteM

To be fair Tony he did say

I am of course addressing the raw data and not some particular method of presenting it to a user, such as the Freesat EPG.

so there would be no point in asking him to contact Freesat to license the data.

I think there are valid general questions.

- Can the UK schedule data be sourced directly from each company (BBC, ITV etc)?
- If it can then can it be done in a cost effective way for it to be compiled for use on this box?
- Would the companies charge for use of this data?
- If the do, why? Is it not in their best interest from an advertising perspective to have and many eyeballs as possible on their channels?

Obviously I'm not asking you specifically but they're definitely questions that anyone who wants a 7 days EPG for UK channels on a box should be asking. Not sure that anyone knows the answers though

Personally if this box can
- provide a combined IE/UK channel list
- record Irish channels through series link
- provide a nice GUI for watching recent Irish programs
- allow me to set a daily/weekly recording timer for non-Irish channels
- automatically update satellite channels when frequencies change
- strip out the dross from the FTA UK channel list and just present the 'Freesat' channels.

then I'll probably pick one up for my folks as this is all they'll really need. I think it could sell pretty well.

Tony

Doesn't matter what method you use to present the data you are still using it so you need the permission of Freesat to do this. The method of presentation is irrelevant if you cannot legally use the data.

SteM wrote: »

To be fair Tony he did say



so there would be no point in asking him to contact Freesat to license the data.

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

Doesn't matter what method you use to present the data you are still using it so you need the permission of Freesat to do this. The method of presentation is irrelevant if you cannot legally use the data.

I fail to understand how you come to this conclusion.

The EPG data is produced by the channels themselves and Freesat uses it to present it in a particular manner in their IPG.

On what basis do you believe that Freesat 'owns' the raw data from the channels?

SteM

Tony wrote: »

Doesn't matter what method you use to present the data you are still using it so you need the permission of Freesat to do this. The method of presentation is irrelevant if you cannot legally use the data.

So Freesat have exclusive rights for the EPG data for all UK satellite channels? To use it and display it on an EPG it must be licensed from Freesat, you can't go directly to the source. Seems an odd situation that individual channels do not have control of the information they compile.

I work for a data provider (a different industry though) and I can't understand this set up at all. In our industry we have large providers that go to the trouble of collecting, verifying and standardizing data. If a client comes to us looking for a data feed we can do a deal with a big data provider to take their feeds, load them into our own system, add value using our tools and sell this data the client. Or if the charge for the data is to high we can go directly to the people that generate the data (so you could be dealing with hundreds of different providers across different countries). We take whatever feed they will offer us (the file formats will always be different), we spend time and money standardizing and verifying the data, we add value using our tools and sell that data on to the client.

The path you travel is based on cost, ease of access to the data, your current relationships with various providers etc.

TLDR, I don't understand how the actual channels themselves are not in a position to sell or provide free access to the schedule data that they generate.