Saorview Connect

SteM

The Cush wrote: »

t TV solution as part of the agreement.

Regarding the epg data, it isn't available via the Freesat transponder for whatever licensing and contractual agreement reasons to Saorview but as Apogee points out above there shouldn't be anything preventing Saorview licensing the data from each respective channel, if they would supply it, and carrying it as a separate data stream on another transponder. The downside would be the licensing and transponder costs. On Saorview Red Bee were contracted to compile the epg metadata from the programme data supplied by each channel.

Seeing as it's a connected box could the EPG data be sent online rather than as a data stream on a transponder?

The Cush

SteM wrote: »

Seeing as it's a connected box could the EPG data be sent online rather than as a data stream on a transponder?

That's a good question, in any case the programme schedules/data would have to be licensed from the respective broadcasters.

galtee boy

The Cush wrote: »

That's a good question, in any case the programme schedules/data would have to be licensed from the respective broadcasters.

Give it up lads, Tony is in the know and he has made it very clear that a 7 day EPG on the satellite part of the combo box is NOT going to happen, as much as we would all like it to happen.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

That's a good question, in any case the programme schedules/data would have to be licensed from the respective broadcasters.

I am not clear on that aspect ..... is it possible that this data is released under a general licence which requires that basic rules are followed in its use?

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am not clear on that aspect ..... is it possible that this data is released under a general licence which requires that basic rules are followed in its use?

I wouldn't be sure either but I've always assumed tv schedule information is coyrighted and requires a payment for its use to the source broadcaster.

icdg

It is, though I'm not sure what in the way of payments there is. As I say before 1991 you couldn't even buy a TV guide that covered more than one broadcaster - you had to buy the RTE Guide, Radio Times, and TV Times to get seven day listings just for RTE, BBC, ITV, and C4, because they would not release their programming information to each other or anyone else.

People assume that just because they can personally do something with the data it's okay for RTE to do it too. If you break the copyright, it's illegal, but you are unlikely to be prosecuted in circumstances where you've done it in your own home and no one else knows about it. If RTE do it, not only will the general public know, but copyright holders know exactly where RTE are to serve proceedings on them.

SteM

icdg wrote: »

It is, though I'm not sure what in the way of payments there is. As I say before 1991 you couldn't even buy a TV guide that covered more than one broadcaster - you had to buy the RTE Guide, Radio Times, and TV Times to get seven day listings just for RTE, BBC, ITV, and C4, because they would not release their programming information to each other or anyone else.

OT but I remember when I was a young lad (way before 1991) people would call around to our house selling TV listing guides that they printed and photocopied themselves. It just had the RTEs, BBCs and UTV at the time iirc. Maybe Channel 4 was included. They sold them door-to-door every week.

Johnboy1951

icdg wrote: »

It is, though I'm not sure what in the way of payments there is.

Nobody has yet posted with any solid info about this.
Hopefully someone will enlighten us

As I say before 1991 you couldn't even buy a TV guide that covered more than one broadcaster - you had to buy the RTE Guide, Radio Times, and TV Times to get seven day listings just for RTE, BBC, ITV, and C4, because they would not release their programming information to each other or anyone else.

People assume that just because they can personally do something with the data it's okay for RTE to do it too. If you break the copyright, it's illegal, but you are unlikely to be prosecuted in circumstances where you've done it in your own home and no one else knows about it. If RTE do it, not only will the general public know, but copyright holders know exactly where RTE are to serve proceedings on them.

A lot of situations that existed before 1991 are no longer applicable, thankfully

Tony

I completely agree

icdg wrote: »

People assume that just because they can personally do something with the data it's okay for RTE to do it too. If you break the copyright, it's illegal, but you are unlikely to be prosecuted in circumstances where you've done it in your own home and no one else knows about it. If RTE do it, not only will the general public know, but copyright holders know exactly where RTE are to serve proceedings on them.

Johnboy1951

icdg wrote:


People assume that just because they can personally do something with the data it's okay for RTE to do it too. If you break the copyright, it's illegal, but you are unlikely to be prosecuted in circumstances where you've done it in your own home and no one else knows about it. If RTE do it, not only will the general public know, but copyright holders know exactly where RTE are to serve proceedings on them.

I agree, but I have not seen any sign of that assumption in this discussion.

STB.

icdg wrote: »

People assume that just because they can personally do something with the data it's okay for RTE to do it too. If you break the copyright, it's illegal, but you are unlikely to be prosecuted in circumstances where you've done it in your own home and no one else knows about it. If RTE do it, not only will the general public know, but copyright holders know exactly where RTE are to serve proceedings on them.

Which is a fair point.

People could also say that the data is presented unencrypted like the channels themselves, so if there were copyright issues they would have DRM'd it. But that is not the ethos of Freesat. These channels like it or not, even being broadcast on the UK spot beam, cannot circumvent borders. The overspill is the whole of Ireland. You cannot ignore that and then justify the non usage of data also broadcast in the open.

Simple thing is that the developer here is the very organisation providing Freesat and they don't want to get into a bind publicly acknowledging that they are giving away access to this data even though we all know why these stations are available here FTA in the first place.

So its somewhere in between.

Apogee

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not without Freesat's approval apparently!

No, this would be independent of Freesat. Gracenote supply their own EPG data.

http://www.gracenote.com/epg-systems/

Johnboy1951

Apogee wrote: »

No, this would be independent of Freesat. Gracenote supply their own EPG data.

http://www.gracenote.com/epg-systems/

From what has been posted here, any software/firmware that is to go on the STB would have to have Freesat approval, and I doubt they would approve anything other than their own.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

From what has been posted here, any software/firmware that is to go on the STB would have to have Freesat approval, and I doubt they would approve anything other than their own.

That would be expected when you consider they have been contracted to design, develop and manage the Saorview Connected platform using their own Metaphor HbbTV solution.

bk

SteM wrote: »

Seeing as it's a connected box could the EPG data be sent online rather than as a data stream on a transponder?

They could also transmit the sat EPG data and tuning data via their existing DVB-T infrastructure and EPG.

Probably would be the cheapest and easiest way for them to do so.

After all it is all just metadata, you just need to program the STB's to pick up that metadata from the DVB-T stream and apply it to the satellite tuners. All very straight forward.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

That would be expected when you consider they have been contracted to design, develop and manage the Saorview Connected platform using their own Metaphor HbbTV solution.

Would it not be a surprise for any company to omit the requirement for a 7 day EPG across all channels (DVB-S & DVB-T)?

That would be a basic requirement, one would have thought, when generating the specs for the STB.

The Cush

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Would it not be a surprise for any company to omit the requirement for a 7 day EPG across all channels (DVB-S & DVB-T)?

That would be a basic requirement, one would have thought, when generating the specs for the STB.

The tender was for a Soarview DTT connected solution and this was awarded to the winning bidder Freesat using their international commercial product Metaphor which is marketed separately to their domestic Freetime product and channels. It would've been nice to get the full Freesat package but this wasn't what the solution offered.

RTÉ is seeking companies that can provide the technology specification for developing SAORVIEW Connected that can work with DTT, and specifically the DTT specification used in Ireland. RTÉ is looking for companies to possibly license the specification to manufacturers and to provide the necessary interface and platform management services to SAORVIEW.

Sam Russell

Does that mean that Saorview will have a commercial interest in the STB manufacture, or will the licences be free?

I always wondered why they turned off series link for UK spec PVRs.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

The tender was for a Soarview DTT connected solution and this was awarded to the winning bidder Freesat using their international commercial product Metaphor which is marketed separately to their domestic Freetime product and channels. It would've been nice to get the full Freesat package but this wasn't what the solution offered.

It appears that it was not what was requested rather than what was not offered.

IF they are including DVB-S tuners in the STB then I would have expected them to seek a solution (by tender) to integrate the Sat channels and Terrestrial channels in one editable channel listing and all with 7 day EPG.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does that mean that Saorview will have a commercial interest in the STB manufacture, or will the licences be free?

We have no information on how the licensing works but considering the size of the Irish DTT market it'll have to be an attractive option for STB manufacturers to produce them.

Capt'n Midnight

The Cush wrote: »

We have no information on how the licensing works but considering the size of the Irish DTT market it'll have to be an attractive option for STB manufacturers to produce them.

Or they could just use a existing box with a decent spec and localised firmware. They only need to localise the hardware if they want to remove features from a top of the range box or add them to a poverty spec one. Eg different tuner, different video processing chip.

The basic decoding of the picture on Saorview can be done by an €8 usb key with the right software.

The Cush

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Or they could just use a existing box with a decent spec and localised firmware.

Most likely that's what they'll do but with the Saorview Connected branding and standardised Saorview remote control.

The Cush

Irish Times - RTÉ ‘looking at’ IPTV channels

according to outgoing RTÉ director general Noel Curran.

“We are looking at the IPTV space. Everyone is looking in that direction. But we’re not going to be foolish about it,” Curran told the Institute for Future Media and Journalism at Dublin City University last week. He added that there was no point in rushing in and then saying: “Oh, that didn’t work.”

But at a certain point, when broadband penetration across Ireland improves, there will be a “tipping point” in RTÉ’s approach to digital television, he predicted.

Rather than streaming an existing channel online-only to cut costs – as the BBC has done with BBC Three – it would more likely be the case that specialist genres such as the arts could be given an online, IPTV home. The difference between the BBC and RTÉ, he said, was that the BBC earned a billion in income. “They don’t have to commercialise BBC Three.”

RTÉ has “tried to get our best bang for our buck” in digital, Curran added, noting that a new generation of RTÉ Player will be launched later this year.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

Irish Times - RTÉ ‘looking at’ IPTV channels

Broadband speeds and penetration in Ireland are not yet good enough for RTÉ to deliver services over IPTV (internet protocol television), but the broadcaster has been exploring the possibility of doing so, according to outgoing RTÉ director general Noel Curran.

Huh?

Other companies seem to think the broadband in Ireland is good enough.
They have apparently been very successful.

jgbyr

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Huh?

Other companies seem to think the broadband in Ireland is good enough.
They have apparently been very successful.

They obviously want to be able to provide the service to those living outside of cities & large urban areas.

Sam Russell

Why would they do that when they have a terrestrial broadcasting network that reaches 98% of the population and is under capacity by nearly 50%? They could add at least 4 channels, two in HD with no extra capital expenditure.

Oh, yea - the Government and its agencies will not let them.

Johnboy1951

jgbyr wrote: »

They obviously want to be able to provide the service to those living outside of cities & large urban areas.

So they would forego the income from an IPTV service because a small percentage of the population would not be able to receive it?

Doesn't sound very reasonable from a commercial point of view to me

jgbyr

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So they would forego the income from an IPTV service because a small percentage of the population would not be able to receive it?

Doesn't sound very reasonable from a commercial point of view to me

Should you have different tv licences based on services available in that case!

Gerry Wicklow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So they would forego the income from an IPTV service because a small percentage of the population would not be able to receive it?

Doesn't sound very reasonable from a commercial point of view to me

You must be city based. There are many parts of this country that have almost no broadband or even a decent mobile signal. My so-called broadband maxes out at 1.7Mb and I know many others who can't even get that.

Johnboy1951

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

You must be city based. There are many parts of this country that have almost no broadband or even a decent mobile signal. My so-called broadband maxes out at 1.7Mb and I know many others who can't even get that.

A huge jump to an incorrect conclusion!

I am rural based, connected by copper to an exchange which will not even have cabinets fitted for at least another year, and when they are done I will be too far from the nearest to have any benefit.

From a commercial point of view there is no reason whatsoever for RTE to wait to introduce IPTV. The majority of the population would have no problem receiving such streams.