Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Tabnabs

That local residents facebook group is really getting organised to quash the Deasgrange one way proposal. An impressive feat of direct and local democracy.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/406927730857410

Larbre34

Yeah extraordinary activity. The Facebook page only had 50 some members when I became aware of it last week and it's at 760 now!

Highly organised and slick campaign going on. Mr Burns will be sweating on this one when the Council convenes again in September. At least the threat of it being railroaded in in the meantime has abated.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679247#Comment_117679247

Why is it that people opposed to active transport projects feel the need to personify their targets. These days everything is Robert Burns fault, he's the new Owen Keegan. You'd swear the two of them hide outside peoples windows so they could p**s in their corn flakes each morning the way they're talked about online. Whatever about Owen Keegan, Robert presumably has a manager and a budget of some kind. He's not doing a massive solo run and paying for it himself, other people in the council are overseeing his work and agreeing to pay for it.

Why do you feel the need to gleefully sneer about someone else who seems to care about their job and is trying to improve the county. Perhaps it would be better if Robert was replaced by someone who didn't give a damn and left people to sit in traffic without having those awkward pedestrians or cyclists to blame?

Tabnabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682382#Comment_117682382

He's hardly some faceless, middle management bureaucrat, he's Director of Infrastructure and Climate Change. He is the very one driving the direction and pace of change in the borough.

Tabnabs

This High Court ruling could have significant ramifications for the DLRCC "temporary measures" 😉 put in place.

Sandymount cycleway halted by High Court

Council must seek planning permission for trial path on Strand Road

The High Court has rejected Dublin City Council’s planned two-lane cycleway for the Strand Road in Sandymount.

Mr Justice Charles Meenan ruled the cycleway will now have to go through the planning process if it is to proceed. The project envisages turning what is currently a two-way vehicular stretch of road as far as the Merrion Gates into a single outbound lane with the other lane used as a two-way cycle track.

It will mean residents seeking to go into town by car will have to go southwards before turning right on to the Merrion Road.

The judge said a local resident and a local councillor had succeeded in their challenge to the cycleway and adjourned the making of orders in the matter to the week after next.

Peter Carvill and Cllr Mannix Flynn, in their challenge, claimed the council was incorrect in asserting the work required for this is exempt development because it was a traffic calming measure. They also argued the council was incorrect in asserting the project did not require an environmental assessment.

The judge disagreed with the council’s argument that the cycleway was for a temporary six-month trial period. What was involved went “beyond signs and certain road markings”, he said.

The cycleway will require the removal of a traffic island at the junction of Strand Road and Merrion Road, the removal of a number of mini roundabouts and the placing of barriers to separate the cycleway from the road carrying traffic, he said.

This was within the nature of building or construction, the judge said. He was satisfied that the cycleway is “road development” for the purposes of section 50 of the Roads Act, 1993 and therefore fell within the provisions of the Environmental Impact Assessment Directive requiring an EIA.

A screening report carried out by the council to assess whether an EIA was required was inadequate, he said. The screening report that was carried out was based on a project that was very different to the cycleway trial that is actually proposed, he said.

That report proceeded on an incorrect assumption that the cycleway would be temporary. Despite having data on traffic displacement from the National Transport Authority, the report “seriously underestimated” the effects of traffic displacement, he said.

He did not accept submissions on behalf of Mr Carvill and Cllr Flynn regarding an alleged conflict of interest by the council as being both the deciding authority and the developer. He also did not accept their submissions about the timing of the project or the lack of public participation.

The cycleway project also falls within the Habitats Directive, providing protection for animal and plant species, he said. It is in an area directly adjacent to the River Tolka Estuary special protection area and South Dublin Bay special area of conservation.

There was a legal obligation on the council to also carry out an appropriate assessment (AA), he said.

He found that both an EIA and an AA was required before the cycleway went ahead and that screening reports by the council to determine whether they were needed were fundamentally flawed.

The judge also noted that Brendan O’Brien. the council’s head of technical services, environment and transportation, had stated the reduction of traffic on Strand Road and the provision of a safe two-way cycle route would mean residents and business owners in the area could travel northbound by walking, cycling or other modes of transport allowed on the cycleway.

This would seem to suggest that residents and other persons in the affected roads, should they wish to go to Dublin Airport, would have to either walk or cycle”, the judge said.

While he was sure this was not what was intended by the city council “it does seem to show a level of indifference to those affected”, he said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/sandymount-cycleway-halted-by-high-court-1.4634804

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117683382#Comment_117683382

Absolutely true. In fact he is only second in seniority to the Chief Exec of the Council.

Mr Burns has made a very public profile for HIMSELF (as Keegan did) as some sort of guru to public realm transformation. Nobody elected him.

And in a bizarre development this week, he cheerled a public social media pile on on an appointed member of the Dublin City PPN over comments that person in turn made about Ciaran Cannon's serious bike crash.

None of this is appropriate for Robert Burns in his position. If he wants to be a policy lobbyist, resign and become one. If he wants to become and elected representative, resign and run for office.

And as you correctly pointed out, he should surely now be far too busy dealing with the headache the Strand Road ruling has presented him.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117683451#Comment_117683451

The 'nobody elected him' critique is nonsense. Of course nobody elected him. Nobody elects any Council staff. That's how Councils work.

Nobody elected you as a town planner.

Larbre34

I think you missed my point entirely. Dealing every day with Councils, as I do, I know full well how they work. The evidence is there that he is conducting himself improperly and very subjectively for a person in his position. He behaves in a political manner, when he isn't a politician. I'm saying he might be better served to become one if campaigning is more his bag.

I'm not sure what my profession has to do with anything, but since I know you've endured a dreadful week, Andrew, I'll give you a pass on whatever it was you meant.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687704#Comment_117687704

If you know how they work, why have a dig at a staff member for 'not being elected'?

He's not campaigning, he's providing leadership, innovation, transformation and more.

pm1977x

He’s also going for the CEO job, sell your car if he gets it.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689332#Comment_117689332

I'm having a dig because there are ways unelected officials may behave and may not behave. Burns conducts himself in ways he should not. He conducts himself like a political campaigner. He should not. His joining the social media pile on of Ciaran Cannon's critic was particularly out of order, especially considering said critic is a member of Dublin City Council's PPN.

I know you probably see him as some sort of saviour of sustainable travel, but that's entirely irrelevant to my point. He is often out of order.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689429#Comment_117689429

If he has breached the Code relevant to Council staff, you can make a complaint to SIPO. If he hasn't, you don't get to come up with random rules and policies to suit your own agenda. To see a senior official protecting the integrity of the PPN process by indicating that it is inappropriate for a person supposedly representing people with disabilities on a PPM using 'hobble on' as an insult to a person with a recent knee injury is absolutely appropriate to me.

Be honest, your problem is with what he says, not how/when/where he says it.

Mav11

I see that a new word has been coined to describe opposition to cycle routes and the development of other non car related infrastructure. "Mannixed", very apt.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-we-should-give-thanks-that-the-dart-wasn-t-mannixed-back-in-the-day-1.4637783

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117703019#Comment_117703019

One of the main reasons the Strand Road Cycle Route is unworkable is because motorists could be driven miles out of their way. The lack of a nearby dedicated parallel road to carry motorised traffic inbound could be very frustrating for drivers.

While there are many side roads that could partially facilitate this, it would be very very awkward. Many of them are narrow residential roads where the likelihood of accidents would be exacerbated.

I do think a long term plan to achieve this would be to reclaim the land from the sea immediately to the east of the current Strand Road. This would also hold particularly true in the very likely event The Dublin Eastern Bypass doesn't go ahead.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117707081#Comment_117707081

This conversation is being done to death over on the cycling forum. Needless to say with the adjacent Merrion Rd. the long suffering motorist would not be forced miles out of their way.

Plus, I can't even imagine the size of the protest (justified IMHO), if they tried to develop the Merrion strand.

gourcuff

personally the public realm improvements dlrcc have introduced for me make it the envy of every other local authority and make me want to move there...

never saw anything particularly impressive about the council area before recent times, it had a reputation of conservative backwoodsmen type area stuck in time.

the improvement to most of the urban villages in dlrcc recently has been amazing, the placemaking and urban design improvements make me want to visit, instead of traffic corridors and fumes from cars people are mingling, using public seating, creating a real village feel... people who want to go back to how poor some of these areas were in terms of public realm makes no sense to me

Larbre34

Conservative backwoodsmen? Dun Laoghaire has been the country's most Liberal constituency for decades!

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117733363#Comment_117733363

They are not necessarily mutually exclusive conditions!!

Zaney

Any thoughts on how the pedestrianisation of lower George’s Street is going?

I was coming home yesterday at 8pm by bike on Crofton Road. Was a long line of traffic northbound with two buses stuck in it. Hard to get by on the bike to access the CMR. But in general the traffic on Clarence Street seems to be moving better than I expected, largely because the bus stop is rarely busy from observations.

I haven’t been to Dun Laoghaire as much as I would’ve pre-pedestrianisation, just because I’m in summertime routine.

is there any official measure/indication of impacts?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117743311#Comment_117743311

I was there on Tuesday evening (also on my bike) about 6.30pm, seemed to be a good atmosphere, with people eating outside the two establishments open for food. Myrtle square is improving with the new surface and trees. All in all very pleasant, quietish, with no sign of any traffic congestion, but then in was a Tuesday evening so what could you expect!

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708508#Comment_117708508

At the point where Strand Road becomes Beach Road, it is over a kilometre from Merrion Road as the crow flies. At Merrion Shopping Centre and St. Vincent's Hospital, it is 0.75 kilometres, again at their nearest points. When one factors in that the honeycomb of interconnecting roads between aren't the easiest to navigate for those not familiar with the area, this can quickly frustrate a motorist. Now, perhaps miles out of the way is an over exaggeration.

Elsewhere, Killiney Hill Road now has even more speed ramps than ever before even though the pot holes haven't been fixed yet. As well as this, there is a new wheelchair friendly entrance to Killiney Hill Park next to the church 100 meters down from the Victoria Hill Entrance.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764588#Comment_117764588

I don't get get the new entrance to be honest how is it wheelchair friendly just less steep? They are also taking an eternity to finish it.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764588#Comment_117764588

Perhaps a secondary or indeed an implicit primary objective of these developments, is to frustrate motorists out of their cars??

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765483#Comment_117765483

That's an obnoxious thing to do. If they were going to provide new bus routes along these alignments or provide other proper incentives to leave the car at home, I wouldn't mind. Being an oblivious inconvenience is unacceptable in any shape or form. No social justice causes should ever excuse it. Then again, sanctimony and virtue signal trumps all these days.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117768739#Comment_117768739

Too true!

Homesick Alien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117743311#Comment_117743311

Peaceful is the way I would describe it too. I mean it was never going to turn into Grafton St but there's a very nice chilled atmosphere there now. Seems to have drawn a couple of extra buskers than usual too which is always welcome.

Its actually not much different really, the benches are mostly used for drinking and the food eaten is mostly fast food, Im personally a bit tired of walking past over weight adults and children eating vast quantities of chips, I wish this would all back indoors to establishments I never set foot in.

Pidgeons are a scourge in Blackrock too, I loathe them and all this eating outdoors will encourage their numbers.

oh well, its Autumn already so everyone will be back inside soon.

This is a reply to a quote above about how wonderful the changes in DLR are, !!!!!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770723#Comment_117770723

If only there was some way we could encourage people to exercise as part of their normal daily activities to reduce the numbers of overweight adults and children you're forced to stare at, perhaps some active mode of travel that we should be facilitating some safe, segregated facilities for. Now what mode of travel would fit that bill, let me think.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765483#Comment_117765483

The Deansgrange business people are going to Court over plans to Deansgrange Road.

They are very worried about their livelihoods and it struck me that those wanting this change won’t lose a cent in income no matter what happens.

I presume the business people will have to fund the legal costs out of their own pockets too, the taxpayer will pay the councils costs, it’s really a David v Goliath situation.

The change is mostly about getting children to school safely but schools are closed for between fifteen and nineteen weeks even without covid and most children won’t cycle in the rain on dark winters morning.

Is it worth the risk of businesses closing, surely everyone should support these businesses as Deansgrange village will be a shell without them.

I don’t stare at them,some people like to take their children to fast food takeaways for lunch, each to their own but this doesn’t add any ambience to anything and neither does outdoor drinking at all hours which is what closing off roads brings especially when you might have six pubs in a small area.

There are plenty of activities you can take your children too that won’t risk local businesses livelihoods.

Dunlaoghaire is a mess now, you can’t drive down Seapoint Avenue to it and you can’t drive down George’s Street out of it. This means people will go elsewhere and it will be by car not by bike so no reduction in car use.

I personally would not go into Dunlaoghaire at night except to the sea front and would find it hard to imagine who would want to hang out near Tesco and Argos once shops close, it doesn’t even get afternoon sun, it’s on the wrong side of the road.🤭