Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Homesick Alien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770931#Comment_117770931

There are still plenty of ways in and out of Dun Laoghaire. And I don't know where you get your assertion that people will go elsewhere and it will be by car. You clearly are not happy with the changes and you're entitled to your view. The changes to George's St are temporary so no need to get to upset about it. Hopefully the changes to the roads along the seafront are permanent.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770842#Comment_117770842

The business owners are mostly worried about their ability to continue to park illegally on footpaths, and same for their staff, and their delivery drivers, and their car delivery trucks.

They don't give a toss for the wheelchair users, older people, parents pushing buggies and people trying to social distance. They care about their own personal convenience.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776917#Comment_117776917

I would think the business people are worried at the prospect of losing customers and thus their livelihoods.

As I said the council officials won’t lose a cent no matter what happens.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776917#Comment_117776917

Total and utter rubbish.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778264#Comment_117778264

Perhaps they should look at the evidence from all over the world showing how such facilities improve retail spending?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778744#Comment_117778744

Have you driven through there recently? Have you seen how the car delivery truck takes over the footpath and half the road for 30-60 minutes at a time?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117778835#Comment_117778835

Do they have an alternative?

Larbre34

At least as it stands, the car dealerships can pull the trucks in tight and there is enough road space for two lanes of traffic, including bikes, to pass by and a footpath on the other side to be used.

If a full lane cycleway goes in, that flexibility is gone and it threatens the viability of the dealerships, just as they emerge from a hellish 18 months struggling to survive. That's completely unacceptable interference in local economic life by the Council. Thankfully the local community are coming out strongly against and will no doubt see it off.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780760#Comment_117780760

I wouldn't be shedding too many tears for car dealers. They have rebounded faster than most sectors, partly as a result of brexit, combined with pent up demand. This is very apparent in terms of quantities sold and the inflated prices being charged. You really would not want to be in a position where you need to buy a car now, you will be fleeced.

Tabnabs

Interesting the narrative of the cycling zealots is to make business=bad, but totally ignore the very strong groundswell of local residents who stand very vocally and resolutely against this measure in their community. No attempts to be conciliatory or seek a compromise, just bulldoze the local reisdents and businesses into submission.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781648#Comment_117781648

Im not sure local residents are even asking for these measures, it all seems to be driven by cycling lobby groups.

I know in my area we were just told that a very busy local road was being turned into a cul de sac to facilitate safe cycling to school and some other wheeze called mountain to the sea nonsense.

The idea was absurd and every local councillor was against it as was every residents association,it just made no sense to the people who live in the community and thank the lord we saw it off, hopefully permanently.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781648#Comment_117781648

While I believe that many of these proposed and implemented initiatives to be generally good, I do think that the arrogance displayed by many of our council executives needs to be tackled. There is to my mind a democratic deficit in, as you say, the bulldozing of local residents which needs to be addressed. Local authorities have too much power and the elected councilors are worse than useless in holding them to account.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781690#Comment_117781690

Cyclists ARE local residents BTW.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780373#Comment_117780373

Well, here's a mad idea - how about they stay off the feckin path and stay on the road. Drivers can just go round, or wait a few minutes, so it's no big deal. Wheelchair users, people with walking frames, people with sight loss, people with poor mobility, children on scooters and others don't have the same flexibility, so how about they leave the footpath for people who need it and use the road for their loading bay?

If that doesn't work, how about they take deliveries at 6am or similar to inconvenience themselves instead of inconveniencing the whole community?

If that doesn't work, how about they pay for unloading space elsewhere, and drive the cars one by one to their location in Deans Grange - again inconvenience themselves instead of inconveniencing the whole community?

If that doesn't work, how about THEY come up with solutions that avoid blocking pavements illegally, rather than expecting the community to solve their business problems?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117780760#Comment_117780760

Chilling, but not surprising to see the lack of consideration for wheelchair users, people with walking frames, people with sight loss, people with poor mobility, children on scooters and others - the 'footpath on the other side' isn't much use to those for whom getting to the other side presents a very serious challenge and probably a loss of independent travel. But sure once the business can cheap out on their unloading and keep two lanes of traffic free, that's the important thing, right?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782656#Comment_117782656

The biggest issue for wheelchair users and those with sight problems is chairs and tables put out on footpaths so the able bodied can have outdoor dining.

My wheelchair bound friend has it up to her back teeth now, everytime she goes out she has to ask restaurant staff to move furniture so she can get by, she passes and then its on to the next restaurant and so on, its wearying. Her outings always involve checking ahead to make sure there are no steps and toilet facilities are available on the ground floor. Her lifeline is her car and one of the first things she did after being paralysed was learning how to drive, Im sure someone here will say sure she could buy a motorised tricyle but that isnt what she wants.

Another pal has vision impairment and she now has to get onto the bus and off it while walking across those chess like ugly raised platforms. The cyclists are tearing down and terrifying her.

So the lack of consideration for road users isnt caused by business people, its caused by executive decisions being made by unelected officals in a manner that is totally undemocratic.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117683382#Comment_117683382

It’s Literally his job title To do such works. Perhaps you should target the person who created his position

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783207#Comment_117783207

Actually, no - the biggest issues for both of those groups is cars, vans and trucks on pavements. That's been the issue being the MakeWayDay campaign for the best part of ten years now.

Those who have only just discovered that wheelchair users and people with sight loss go out are the ones banging on about chairs and tables - the zeal of the recent convert, who miss the key issue .

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781648#Comment_117781648

Businesses are reporting it’s being positive

https://m.facebook.com/Dunlaoghairefood/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117781550#Comment_117781550

I'm thinking of the 30 or 40 jobs. They and their families might shed a tear, don't you think?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783281#Comment_117783281

Im reporting what my wheelchair bound friend has said to me, restaurant furniture and on street drinking is making her already difficult life even more difficult.

She has her own car and a disabled badge and her car is her lifeline to independence.

I dont see much mention of the needs of disabled people in any council literature about improvements to the public realm, its mostly about cyclists and their need to have whole roads devoted to their leisure pursuit,cyclists seem to be under some misunderstanding about what roads are for, ie to take traffic from A to B, all traffic, cars, buses, bikes,roads arent there just for weekend cyclists to enjoy their hobby and thats what Sandymount Strand would have catered for. The rest of the week the cycle lane would be empty and the residents would have to endure the diverted traffic twenty four hours a day.

This is basically what the Seapoint Avenue is too, there wont be a sinner on it today or any day from September on except maybe a nice dry Saturday/Sunday.

Its a very nice facility to have but maybe during the winter it should revert to full usage and just make it one way at the weekend. No point in having a perfectly good commuter route lying idle while the alternative route is gridlocked all day.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783705#Comment_117783705

Why do they need trucks to pull in, delivering cars?

for garages that don’t have a forecourt that fits a truck , they can pull in up the road and drive the cars down !!

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783785#Comment_117783785

are you that ignorant ? Do you think cycling is just a leisure activity ?

it’s primarily a form of transport. It’s to get from A to B.

you don’t see people using it, as bikes move freely and don’t need to queue up behind other users.

that’s is what happens when your vehicle takes up 6 sq ft as opposed to 90 sq ft

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783705#Comment_117783705

You're certain that they will have to close?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783785#Comment_117783785

Most people who hang out with wheelchair users have worked out that terminology such as 'wheelchair bound' is an awful way to refer to anyone.

https://newmobility.com/dont-say-wheelchair-bound/

Funny how you didn't notice the problems that parked cars, vans and trucks have been causing for wheelchair users for decades. The Council (the one that never references the needs of people with disabilities) has been campaigning on this for decades. Have you really not noticed this?

https://twitter.com/dlrcc/status/1309489102283300866

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783705#Comment_117783705

Does their business model rely absolutely on illegal parking?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783868#Comment_117783868

Check out Google maps, these car dealers have oodles of space in front and behind the showrooms, to handle the occasional car transporter.

Seaswimmer

I listened to the owner of Tiger pizza in Deansgrange who claimed that 200 to 300 daily delivery journeys would now be diverted through neighbouring estates if the one way system goes ahead.. What I found fascinating is nobody challenged him on his business model. Is it really sustainable to have this many trips (mostly by car from my observations) using a 1 ton vehicle to deliver a single pizza. I did suggest to him directly that using Ebikes would be much quicker as he could use the new cycle lane both ways.

They wouldnt be delivering single pizzas, they could have up to ten deliveries going out at the one time, deliveries could included sides and drinks too.

Its a bit much of you to be suggesting to a pizza owner how to run his business,if ebikes were a solution then I am sure he would have thought of this himself.

I wouldnt fancy cycling around with twenty pizza, twenty sides and crates of minerals on my back, I doubt if you would either particularly now it be will dark and cold by 7PM soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783956#Comment_117783956

I posted that in all the council literature promoting cycle lanes and safe access to schools etc there is very little attention paid to how the changes affect those with disabilities.

What the council have done up to this regarding illegal parking is not relevant.

If you see illegal parking ring the Gardai,much better option than contacting your local council.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117783878#Comment_117783878

Cycling on segregated cycle lanes beside the sea is a leisure activity. I do it myself, I cycle into Dunlaoghaire, never get off the bike in case its stolen and then I cycle home again, only when the weather is nice though, I wont cycle in the rain.

These two way cycle lanes dont join up with anything and most cycling commuters wont use them because they(mostly middle aged men) want to speed and wont stop at red lights.

Its all just nice photo opportunities but really if its about encouraging people to commute by bike into work then spend the money on the existing cycle lanes, most of which are dismal, ie along the N11 into and out of the city centre.

Dont bother spending millions doing whatever is planned in Stillorgan, just spend a few bob on the cycle path(shared with pedestrians) from the N11 to Carysfort Avenue, do that today, there is plenty of money to spend.There is already a cycle path thats not much used on the other side of the road,its perfectly adequate for the volume of people using it.Most people cycling to Stillorgan from the local area will go through Carysfort Park, no need for any super duper cycling lane.

its an awful pity locals dont have more of an input into these plans.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784537#Comment_117784537

There's a limit in what you can put into any one piece of literature. They didn't put anything in the cycle lane literature about public safety, or good value for money either, but that doesn't mean that they've forgotten about them. It's difficult to position yourself credibly as an advocate for people with disabilities when you're using derogatory language.

https://twitter.com/flowergirl_lon/status/1240726790412423177

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784588#Comment_117784588

You're making a good case for providing MORE segregated cycle facilities to join up all the individual bits, which is part of the objective of the Deans Grange section that you keep complaining about.