Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

22-07-2021 3:06pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646441#Comment_117646441

'Don't ever presume to come on here and patronise me...' - then don't post risible comments. Not only were you unaware of induced demand, you've just shown that even after it being described to you, you still don't understand the basics of it.

"Demand on all modes has always increased in parallel with a fast growing population and economy."

Induced demand doesn't imply or state that demand decreases with a rising population or economic activity. You would be aware of this if you knew of the concept.

"..no evidence for local outcomes. We are dealing with the real world in real time."

Please provide local evidence that disproves induced demand then, by all means.

A 'town' planner (I think you meant urban planner, although even that may be too advanced a concept for you) who doesn't know about induced demand, only in Ireland 🤦‍♂️

<SNIP> Lets not be rude please</SNIP>

'I'M A TOWN PLANNER!!!!!'

AndrewJRenko · 22-07-2021 3:24pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117644630#Comment_117644630

I'll stick on the camera next time I'm passing Frascati around 4pm, and we can have a good discussion about what "bumper to bumper" really looks like.

Thanks for proving that traffic evaporation works by giving your own personal example.

Mav11 · 22-07-2021 3:25pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117646441#Comment_117646441

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis%E2%80%93Mogridge_position

I am not an engineer, but I imagine that the corollary would be that traffic would also contract, with a reduction in the road space available to it? This would apply, particularly in Dun laoghaire where there are good cycling and public transport (DART etc) alternatives?

22-07-2021 5:36pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647273#Comment_117647273

Traffic evaporating, what are you talking about.

Traffic in Blackrock, Stillorgan and Dunlaoghaire is back to normal, its actually worse this summer than ever.

I drove to wexford twice this week and passed Kilmancanogue at 7AM, the traffic was very heavy inbound all the way from Gorey.

Have the majority of people returned to offices, if not where are all these people going.

22-07-2021 5:39pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645125#Comment_117645125

I have reported your name calling post.

Its abusive.

Mav11 · 22-07-2021 6:55pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647939#Comment_117647939

I am awaiting a review by forum Mods. In the meantime could you please desist from trolling my account? Thank you.

HereinBray · 22-07-2021 7:06pm

@MOD - this thread is torture. Is there anyway we can split the Dun Laoghaire thread into traffic and non traffic please?

The amount of 'Experts' is unreal - both two wheelers and four wheelers. And nastiness on both sides.

Personally I don't care about cycle lanes or car lanes - I want to know about other local interests. And I don't think I'm alone - there are only the same 5 or 6 posters now.

Thanks

AndrewJRenko · 22-07-2021 8:10pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117647915#Comment_117647915

Remember when you said "I only cycle to Dunlaoghaire now"? That is traffic evaporation.

greenbicycle · 22-07-2021 9:23pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648327#Comment_117648327

I second this request. Would much rather hear about ANYTHING other than an ongoing circular debate about traffic and bikes etc. Thread has been completely ruined as it stands

22-07-2021 9:34pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648589#Comment_117648589

Its not actually, its displacement of traffic, I still need to shop so will drive to Stillorgan, or Cornelscourt instead of Dunlaoghaire.

The only thing evaporating is cash in the tills for business owners in Dunlaoghaire.

Mav11 · 22-07-2021 9:35pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/2057038859/dun-laoghaire

@greenbicycle I think it started with the first post in September 2013 and went downhill from there. 😁

AndrewJRenko · 22-07-2021 9:39pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648944#Comment_117648944

By definition, it is traffic evaporation. You used to drive to DL, and now you cycle, so your vehicle has evaporated into the mist, leaving clearer air and more road space for everyone.

Have you tried measuring the walking distance of the car parks that you're walking around now, compared the dreaded walk facing you along the length of the pedestrianised street in DL? Amazing how you're well able to walk long distances, as long they are in a huge car park!

Mav11 · 22-07-2021 10:35pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648327#Comment_117648327

This thread, as I pointed out earlier started 8 years ago with a row about traffic. Inevitably, given the nature of the area, any new developments have a traffic implication which will be vigorously discussed by opposing camps.

And yes, there are some real experts here (not me) who, while I might not agree with them all, know their stuff, are quite passionate about the area and have been posting here and giving their time and expertise for a long period.

It is a great thread, I live local and I like the passion with which topics (traffic included) are discussed. To engage with this thread and nobody is forced to, engagement is optional, you need 3 characteristics:

'1 You need not to take it too seriously

'2 You need a sense of humour.

'3 You need to keep it civil. (Although civility can be seriously tested at times)

There are a great bunch of regular posters here and as you say you don't care about traffic, but I'm sure that if you make a positive contribution to the thread, regarding other local interests that you might be interested in the regular 'Experts' will go out of their respective ways to discuss and assist.

Thank you

patrickbrophy18 · 23-07-2021 12:00am

If a recent trip by the DART Station is anything to go by, I think that Crofton Road has bore the brunt for the bulk of diverted traffic. Other knock on effects include York Road and Clarence Street. In any case, those availing of the 7, 46A, 75 and 63 will be most affected timewise given the amount of stops they'll have taken up to that point in their respective journeys. Either-way, I try to avoid Dun Laoghaire at busy times.

Gaspode · 23-07-2021 6:45am

Until Boards is fixed I cant move posts to another thread, so this thread is now the DL traffic & commuting thread. I'll open a new non-traffic one now.

Zaney · 23-07-2021 8:55am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645061#Comment_117645061

Traffic flow northbound on Seapoint Avenue has changed. The traffic signals at the Blackrock end give less green time to cars and there can be long slow moving queues.

If there’s a bin truck, or delivery van they sometimes block the now one lane road. Happens now and then, but when it does traffic behind is stuck for a while. There should be some loading bays along it, though people would probably only park in them.

I would say there’s less traffic now on Seapoint Avenue northbound, but it’s a less reliable route - you can sail along a lot of the time but delays can be really bad sometimes.

I think these impacts are acceptable for the benefits of the CMR, but I can imagine for some, especially very local residents who experience the traffic daily, the change is difficult - I think it’s important to acknowledge that.

23-07-2021 9:07am

I am ablebodied and like cycling.

Its not the case for everyone and disabled people and the elderly have been over looked in Dunlaoghaire. There voices arent being heard in the loud organised social media postings by organised cycling groups. These people are aggressive in the way they cycle too, no regard fir anyone else using the roads, I look at them and think I hope they dont drive as they would be even more dangerous.

As I said if you want Dunlaoghaire to be a traffic free zone where prople can stroll around drinking coffee and eating ice cream then thats a nice vista.I will cycle down a couple of times a week but for shopping I will drive to cornelscourt or Dundrum.

This is already what happened to Dunlaoghaire and now that you cant even get out of the town by driving down the main exit route more people will avoid it now.

Its the non cafe owners and non pub owners who will lose out but sure they can just close up and sell everything online.

23-07-2021 9:17am

That was a reply to Andrew Renko .

I dont know how traffic displaced from one street and moved elsewhere by a roundabout route can be called evaporation, the concept is laughable.

Andrew doesnt live in Dunlaoghaire or Blackrock or Deansgrange or Stillorgan.

Thats for sute.

Seaswimmer · 23-07-2021 9:29am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650130#Comment_117650130

Its funny how the elderly, disabled, fire engines and ambulances are constantly trotted out when any tiny bit of road space for motorists is being reallocated. Somebody on here recently suggested that all the spaces along the seafront and around the hospital should be turned into disabled parking or elderly parking. That would really prove that we are serious about the elderly and disabled. But because it would mean the able bodied motorist may have to walk a few metres extra there would be uproar. If we were really serious about helping the disabled and elderly who NEED to drive then the more able bodied among us would free up the roads by using alternative means of transport.

Mav11 · 23-07-2021 9:35am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650085#Comment_117650085

I think that one of the major causes of congestion all around the area is the change in traffic light sequencing to favour pedestrians. I have noticed this particularly on the junction of Carysfort Ave and Stillorgan Pk. Traffic can be backed up almost to the N11 but yet the lights will only allow 3 to 4 car through in any green sequence with the lights on red sequence for a very long time.

Seaswimmer · 23-07-2021 9:43am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650085#Comment_117650085

Agree about the bin lorries and deliveries but that is fairly irregular I would imagine.. As you point out traffic light phases have been shortened but this has happened throughout the country so it is unfair to blame new infrastructure when junctions which never had an issue now have a queue of traffic due to light phases. I think these phases are here to stay. it is an easy way of using a bit of stick instead of carrot to prioritise pedestrians.

interestingly the one set of traffic lights (pedestrian) where the phase is extremely long for cars is the set of pedestrian lights beside Monkstown Valley on the Monkstown Road. Presumably this is to keep the traffic that can no longer travel via Seapoint Avenue moving along that stretch. You can wait up to a minute ( I timed it) for the green man.

Zaney · 23-07-2021 11:35am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650303#Comment_117650303

Regular enough to be frustrating - increase in supermarket and package deliveries since Covid.

I know the signal timings have changed in lots of areas, but the whole signal sequence was altered to provide access to and from the cycleway. It has had a more than average reduction in car capacity through the junction. Definitely a big improvement for cyclists, I used to hate trying to turn right towards Blackrock on a bike, especially with the kids beside me. But it’s still wrong to say there has been no change for traffic northbound on Seapoint Avenue.

Noticable that the green time for Monkstown Road is favourable to vehicles - maybe too because this is a bus route?

HereinBray · 23-07-2021 11:48am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117649204#Comment_117649204

I guess that's me told.

By an 'Expert'

AndrewJRenko · 23-07-2021 12:13pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650130#Comment_117650130

Ah yes, the tired old cliches about how cycling hurts older people and people with disabilities. It's hard to fathom where all these people worried about older people and people with disabilities were hiding for all the years of the @http://twitter.com/makewayday campaign, begging for drivers to stay off the footpaths? Don't remember too many advocates for older people and people with disabilities then. I'm presuming that these people have conveniently forgotten that older people can and do cycle https://twitter.com/SilkeRichard/status/1271844709519024128?s=19 especially when provided with safe, segregated facilities like the CMR. And I'm presuming that they've forgotten that bikes ARE a mobility aid for many people with disabilities, like Christy; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/exercise-pays-back-the-effort-1.946217. Car-centric environments discriminate against the many older people or people with disabilities who can't drive or can't afford to keep a car on the road.

Mav11 · 23-07-2021 1:09pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117650968#Comment_117650968

😁😁😁😂

Gareth Keenan · 23-07-2021 4:01pm

One of the recent changes is to be reversed. The second opening at the "Cowshed" car park in Glasthule is to be restored, at the behest of local traders.