Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

fixXxer

Mobile site seems much better so far, to me at least. Georges street is definitely much more pleasant now. It was always a little cramped with a small road with large vehicles going down it. Feels more able to breathe now.

AndrewJRenko

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117605775#Comment_117605775

The borough is a different story to the town. The borough includes Dundrum, Cherrywood, Ballinteer, Stillorgan and a lot more.

Larbre34

It's not a Borough. Hasn't been a Borough since 1994 and even then the Borough was a very small area around Dun Laoghaire Town, much smaller than the current, 27 years established, County of Dún Laoghaire - Rathdown.

pm1977x

Have been down in DL the last 2 weekends, the place was hopping, great buzz about the place - there's clearly a lot of work still to be done at Myrtle Sq as they only have a few benches out as yet but could be a great civic space. Not convinced the tables and chairs outside restaurants are quite set up to maximum effect but it's okay for a starting point, saw a mix of cyclists walking their bikes and zooming in and out between pedestrians, more cyclists need to get on board with the dismounting and play their part. One major caveat is that these were 2 beautifully sunny days and quite how big of a draw it will be on a dull, overcast or rainy day is another matter. But, as a major sceptic of the plan, I have to say it's got a lot of potential.

I cycled down there tonight even though I dont think you are supposed to.

The Square was empty, really unpleasant spot, in darkness at 930, no evening light at all.

The seafront was hopping, people everywhere.

why would people leave the sparkling sea to go and sit beside Tesco, it makes no sense.

Mav11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634982#Comment_117634982

The fear, if you look back at previous posts, was that Myrtle Sq. might become a focus for anti social behaviour in the evenings, so perhaps it is better empty in the evenings and busy during the day?

It will become a skateboard area in the evening and then become an anti social area that people avoid,elderly people especially as skateboards terrify people will mobility issues.

If you come up Marine Road now by bicycle and want to cycle towards Monkstown it looks like you cant go via Georges Street, this makes no sense to me, is the purpose of the coastal cycle route to cycle on it as far as the forty foot and then cycle back again the same way.

I never drive to Dunlaoghaire now, its just so difficult and I would regularly have driven in, Parked in Tesco and shopped in the town, Its just hassle now and easier to go to Dundrum or Nutgrove.

I would often walk in too and get the number 7 bus back, hop on it outside Argos and get off in Blackrock village. Leaving the cinema at night time too and having the bus stop at Argos was convenient but no way am I wandering around Dunlaoghaire at night to find a bus stop, its too unsavoury and that empty square with narrow streets off it will be very off putting. The coffee shops will be closed too so it will be a no go area.

This idea has been tried before and it didnt work, I do hope it works this time as Dunlaoghaire is almost past the point of rescue, it compares so unfavourably to Monkstown village. and yet Monkstown has cars and public transport and bicyles passing through it but yet its a pleasant place to be.

I really think if we choke off car access to retail areas we will end up with outdoor eating and drinking for young able bodied people and there will be nothing else to draw other cohorts into these urban areas. People will just drive to out of town centres, park their cars near the doors and make a day out of it.

Mav11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638399#Comment_117638399

All those points have been discussed, mulled over and argued so I couldn’t be arsed doing it again. Read back on earlier posts.

Just one question, why if you’re so unhappy with the changes In Dun Laoghaire, would you bypass Stillorgan and accessible parking for the mayhem of Dundrum or Nutgrove to get to Tesco?

Such a silly reply.

Dunlaoghaire is a much bigger shopping destination than Stillorgan, it could compete with Dundrum or Nutgrove if parking is available and its not impossible to drive to.

I never posted that I drive to Dundrum to go to Tesco, I said I have stopped spending money in Dunlaoghaire as its too difficult to access by car and Im not carrying a load of shopping on a bike.I dont intend to buy a cargo bike either so dont bother making that suggestion.

The people making these changes in Dunlaoghaire are not taking elderly people with free travel into consideration, ditto disabled people who drive or use buses, same with families with young children and no not everyone wants to put three children into a box on a bike for a trip to a cinema. All these potential customers will by pass Dunlaoghaire now and go to Dundrum.

The absolute stupidity of you to suggest that an empty square is better at night for young women leaving a cinema or pub, it would be much better to have a convenient bus stop with people waiting, much safer than heading to the seafront or wherever the number 7 has relocated to.

I dont much care where the bus has gone, Dunlaoghaire is just not convenient anymore except for a quick cycle to forty foot and back, I dont even bring money any more.😀😄

Mav11

Which part is silly? Is it the part which points out that the belated points which you raise had already been discussed?

Or is it the part where you state:

"I never drive to Dunlaoghaire now, its just so difficult and I would regularly have driven in, Parked in Tesco and shopped in the town, Its just hassle now and easier to go to Dundrum or Nutgrove."

So if you're not going to Tesco you're just complaining about the difficulty of parking in DL? You won't get much sympathy on that, but there is a woman called Ann Fitzsimmons from Naas who wrote to the Irish Times recently on the discriminatory nature of parking in the Forty Foot. Maybe you could try a letter to the Irish Times and see how that goes?

Just a helpful suggestion!!

Oh God, the pedantics of it all, its too hot for this.

Look, you either acknowledge that Dunlaoghaire is a bit town that needs car access for its retail element to survive or you promote it as a cycling, walking, outdoor eating and drinking area.

if its the latter then retail space including those grotty charity shops need to go.There are too many dreary shopfronts in the centre so convert them back to housing and housing for young working people to buy and not just more social housing.

continuing with making streets one way and removing public transport is choking retail to death, better to just designate some parts of the centre for housing and redevelop it.

Empty public spaces in the centre of town when it will be dark at 4 pm within a couple of months is ridiculous, its like trying to make a pigs purse out of a sows ear.

Mav11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639932#Comment_117639932

The only thing that I will acknowledge is that great efforts have been taken recently to change the image and nature of DL from a "bit town" suffocated with traffic, to somewhere that we all want to visit. While I am not a great fan of local authorities, credit where credit is due, they have persevered, despite the naysayers and those who try to undermine such initiatives with negativity and doubt.

Charity shops, I agree there are way too many. But these were in existence before the changes and the pedestrianisation of Georges st,. As a consequence, they may not find the location as attractive, but probably not. If that were to happen, I'm sure you would then find those complaining about the death of the charity shops due to the pedestrianisation. You can't win, but it is great that they keep trying to change the image of the town.

BTW #1 it is only a pilot and again if you peruse earlier posts you will see the view that maybe, depending on how the pilot goes, it should revert at the end of September.

BTW #2 The earlier suggestions were rather than empty spaces, proper policing was the solution to anti social behaviour and security for young women and others.

BTW #3 No need now to peruse earlier posts, I seem to have done the research for you.😁

BTW #4 Could you not just use a taxi?😁😁😁

We will see how temporary the measures are.

Its now almost end of July and evenings already shortening.

Is the Square the finished product, it looks nothing like the artists drawing that I saw, the surface in particular, whats there now has added nothing to the ambience.

The best thing the council could do is turn that space into a secure lock up space for bikes and electric scooters, this at least would serve a useful purpose.

As for the Garda suggestion, they will have some difficulty getting to that location since you can neither drive or cycle to it.

The Forty Foot was jam packed on Monday last, tide was in.

I was there for over an hour and didnt see one Garda so if you think the resources are there to police Myrtle Square you are very naive.

Mav11

"Its now almost end of July and evenings already shortening."

Reminds me of a pal of mine, from Cavan and I like Cavan, but he can't wait for the 22nd of June to remind people that the Winter is coming. A real ray of sunshine and optimism.

"Is the Square the finished product, it looks nothing like the artists drawing that I saw"

I know and still no sign of the acrobats. Might ring Joe?

"As for the Garda suggestion, they will have some difficulty getting to that location since you can neither drive or cycle to it."

I dunno, maybe they could walk down on regular patrol? It is not a million miles away from the Garda station. Failing that, blue light services can cycle or drive down if they wish.

"I was there for over an hour and didnt see one Garda so if you think the resources are there to police Myrtle Square you are very naive."

Garda numbers and budget are at unprecedented high levels, so if they are not around DL, not policing drug dealing in Ballymun (Prime Time last night), not policing teenage anti social behaviour in town, not policing recent criminal funerals, where are they? Maybe you should take it up with Drew Harris, because it is not a question of insufficient resources?

😁😁

AndrewJRenko

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639900#Comment_117639900

"if parking is available"

https://twitter.com/robertburns73/status/1414166547430580225

4,500 spaces available

Its not just the parking though, its how long it takes to get to Dunlaoghaire now as one major road is now a cycling lane. Traffic is bumper to bumper all along Blackrock by pass and now that Georges Street is pedestrianised Tivoli Road etc is gridlocked.

These measures arent getting rid of traffic, they are just funnelling traffic from one area to another and thus increasing pollution for local residents.

There might be thousands of parking spots in Dunlaoghaire but if you can only go one way and end up confused then you will go to Dundrum etc for shopping.

My pal came up from Wexford recently and took her elderly mother for a drive to Dunlaoghaire. I had warned her about the changes but she got completely stressed trying to navigate her way around so wont be bringing her mother there again.

The coffee shop owners might be very happy but I went into an empty shoe shop opposite the shopping centre about a month ago, the shop owner wasnt exactly thrilled, he has been closed for months and now customers like me just arent going to bother visiting, not when I cant even cycle down Georges Street back to Blackrock.

Its time that the powers that be stopped listening to pressure groups and actually talked to people who live in the area.

Larbre34

Leaving aside all other arguments, the consequent traffic created in the wider area by a combination of the coastal cycle lane and the George's St closure, cannot be ignored by the Council.

It's detrimental to business and residential life alike in a wide area. That's important.

Wait till we see the results of whats planned for Stillorgan Park.

This is a very busy road and its planned to reduce its width and provide new cycle lanes. There are cycle lanes there already and the one from Stillorgan village to Carysfort ave is shared with pedestrians, you need to jump out of the way when sixteen stone cyclist is racing past you. This cycle lane is so badly maintained, DLR has spent a couple of million euros on new cycling lanes but nothing on this busy one, tree roots etc growing up through the tarmacadam.

Its proposed that the filter lane to the N11 be removed so all traffic goes straight snd cars wait to go left, traffic will be backed up to Dalkey.

The right turns into several housing estates from Stillorgan are to be removed too, this will cause huge congestion so Stillorgan will be choked too.

Traffic on Carysfort Avenue wont move at all so Blackrock by pass will come to a standstill, this road is already very busy and all uphill to Stillorgan so not many cyclists on it, new two cycle lane installed last summer and its very underused.

God help anyone needing a fire brigade or ambulance in this area, there is no where for cars to pull in to let them pass, who cares about that though.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641256#Comment_117641256

It's the traffic that's detrimental to business and residential life alike in a wide area. That's important.

Induced demand is a well-proven, long established phenomenon and yet people still pretend that traffic isn't generated by having vehicular road space. The only proven way to reduce traffic/congestion is to disincentivise people taking journeys by car.

If you disagree, that's fine - but you're only outing yourself as someone who cares not a damn for anything but your own incredibly ignorant opinion.

Mav11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117643625#Comment_117643625

Neatly summed up by the old road engineering saying that:

“traffic expands to fill the road space available to it”.

AndrewJRenko

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117641150#Comment_117641150

It's not the parking at all though. You're making a big song and dance about every possible niggle and minor change because you don't like the idea of facilities for cycling. That's obvious to all. There are 4,500 parking spaces in the immediate area, so there's no issue with parking despite the number of times you mentioned it.

When exactly is traffic 'bumper to bumper' along Frascati Road? Because I've never seen anything near normal (pre-Covid) levels of traffic there. What days/times are you seeing this 'bumper to bumper' traffic please?

Are you really saying that loads of drivers are incapable of basic navigation to find parking using the many signs in the area or using their satnav or using the Google Maps that 90% of them are running on their phones? Honestly, if a driver can't follow a few signs, they've really no business being on the road.

The length of the pedestrianised area is what - 400m or 500m? People walk further than that to get from the car park in Dundrum or probably in Nutgrove to get to a shop, but you're telling us that unless they can basically stop at the entrance to the shop, they'll be avoiding DLR in their droves?

It doesn't really stand up, does it?

Bumper to bumper every afternoon from 4pm on.

It was really bad this evening as all Dunlaoghaire traffic is now going via Monkstown Road.

The traffic was bumper to bumper down seapoint avenue too at 930 this evening.

it is going to be chaotic once things return to normal.

Thank God that Strand Road bicycle lane didnt go ahead, hopefully we have heard the last of that, that would have completely immobilised North bound traffic.

AndrewJRenko

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117644565#Comment_117644565

Bumper to bumper where at 4pm please?

Bumper to bumper both directions on the Frascati by pass, I drive and walk along it most days.

Monkstown Road is very busy all day everyday and I presume Tivoli Road is jammed too.

I only cycle to Dunlaoghaire now, its a nice spin on a nice day, I wont drive, too much hassle, dont want to be checking sat navs to see which roads I can drive on, easier to drive to Dundrum, pay three euros for three hours parking, its free if i spend thirty euros in Tesco.

You only get one hour free if you park in Tesco Dunlaoghaire( with twenty euro spend) why would people go there when When its cheaper and more convenient to go to Dundrum.

As I said Dunlaoghaire is finished as a shopping destination, there are so many buildings that could be converted to residental use, this would energise the town.

Sticking a few tables and chairs on streets that lose the sun early and taking bus stops away from the town centre isnt all that helpful.

Mav11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117644630#Comment_117644630

I really don't know how to respond to this post, except to say that for some reason, you seem to have it in for Dun laoghaire.

You describe Dun laoghaire as a "bit town" and yes it had got a bit grubby, but I don't understand how you can then be so opposed to the attempts to address these issues.

You complain about areas getting choked with traffic and yet equally complain about not being able to easily drive to places and find parking. Where is the consistency in your views?

BTW I regularly drive and cycle the Stillorgan / Blackrock / Dun laoghaire route and yes, at times the traffic can be bad, but that seems to be more a function of deliberate changes to traffic light sequences to favour pedestrians and discourage excessive motor traffic than anything else.

The point is making streets one way is funnelling traffic onto nearby streets and making life miserable for residents.

These measures are not reducing car numbers, if you close off a main street through a town then traffic will move rlsewhere, eg Tivoli Road in Dunlaoghaire.

Eventually it will be too difficult to get in and out of Dunlaoghaire so people will take their money elsewhere.

I referred to Dunlaoghaire as a bit town, I meant big town, I think you know that though.

This is the reason Dunlaoghaire is in decline, it has to be more than an open air drinking and eating place and if thats what happens then CPO the dingy empty retail units and turn them into housing for young working people.

Seaswimmer

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117644565#Comment_117644565

Nothing has changed on Seapoint Avenue going towards the city. Cars can still travel either on Seapoint Avenue or Monkstown Road in this direction so "bumper to bumper" traffic was probably more due to people visiting DL/Sandycove/Dalkey ect on a sunny evening. Try and drag your mind back to pre Covid times and imagine a sunny Sunday in the summer. All roads were jammed then long before any infrastructure changes.

Mav11

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645047#Comment_117645047

"I think you know that though", No I did not know that.

But enough said, sometimes it is better not to feed the Trolls!

Larbre34

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117643625#Comment_117643625

I'm a town planner by trade FFS.

I deal in actuality, in real time situations. On a micro level, I have never and I mean NEVER seen the phenomenon you describe play out in actuality in a Dublin scenario. Demand on all modes has always increased in parallel with a fast growing population and economy.

That demand increase has varied, but it has certainly never seen a demonstrable reduction in road traffic overall as a result of a local measure.

The excuse of COVID induced traffic reduction has passed. Levels are back to ~90% of 2019 levels and localised measures such this one are pushing that well over 100% locally in areas that suffer the knock-on effect.

Don't ever presume to come on here and patronise me with a desktop model and no evidence for local outcomes. We are dealing with the real world in real time.