Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

yipsnomore · 23-02-2016 11:25am

First Up wrote: »

Golf's history is littered with cases where a caddy's intervention has turned a player around at a time of crisis.

Whether JP is the best fit for Rory or not has been argued before. Its an interesting one. It's debatable whether any caddie could have rescued Rory at the Masters in 2011. However since then Rory is a completely different player.
He plays the percentages more than ever before. The mistakes he makes seem to be down more to poor execution. And I can't see how a caddy can influence anything other than shot and club selection for a player as experienced as Rory.

From what I saw at Riviera I can't see how JP could have done anything about that?

Seve OB · 23-02-2016 12:17pm

Have a think about it. That was the only time in recent years I can recall Rory having a proper nightmare on a Sunday. It usually happened before the Sunday. Sunday was normally his day for bouncing back and consolidating a good finishing position.

We are all entitled to a bad day at the office. Rory will bounce back, I wouldn't worry about that.

Miley Byrne · 23-02-2016 12:38pm

When you compare his wedge play to his driving or long irons it is shocking by comparison. It's like the little 100-130 yard shots don't get the same attention from him that a 270 yard 3 wood into a par 5 does. The spectacular shots get the juices flowing for him yet it seems the mundane wedge shots just don't seem to grab his attention at all.

First Up · 23-02-2016 1:37pm

yipsnomore wrote: »

Whether JP is the best fit for Rory or not has been argued before. Its an interesting one. It's debatable whether any caddie could have rescued Rory at the Masters in 2011. However since then Rory is a completely different player.
He plays the percentages more than ever before. The mistakes he makes seem to be down more to poor execution. And I can't see how a caddy can influence anything other than shot and club selection for a player as experienced as Rory.

From what I saw at Riviera I can't see how JP could have done anything about that?

Its not about club selection. The top caddies - at least the top player/caddy partnerships - involve a bit of psychology or mentoring to get the player's head into the right place. When Rory is in a bad stretch, all I see with those two is Rory in a lost looking state with JP scurrying along behind him. Do you ever see them talk? Ever see anything that looks other than JP saying "yes, OK boss"?

Seve OB · 23-02-2016 2:47pm

First Up wrote: »

Do you ever see them talk? Ever see anything that looks other than JP saying "yes, OK boss"?

Do you realise the cameras do not just stay on them?

First Up · 23-02-2016 3:09pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Do you realise the cameras do not just stay on them?

It stays on them more than most, which is why it is notable that you see other players and caddies having conversations a lot more than you do Rory and JP.

Anatom · 23-02-2016 3:13pm

First Up wrote: »

It stays on them more than most, which is why it is notable that you see other players and caddies having conversations a lot more than you do Rory and JP.

Horses for courses. They're a very successful partnership. JP does what Rory needs him to do.

Its amazing that whenever there's a blip, JP gets the blame.

Seve OB · 23-02-2016 3:29pm

First Up wrote: »

It stays on them more than most, which is why it is notable that you see other players and caddies having conversations a lot more than you do Rory and JP.

true, but it does not stay on them all the time. there is a lot more said than "yes, OK boss"

First Up · 23-02-2016 3:51pm

Seve OB wrote: »

true, but it does not stay on them all the time. there is a lot more said than "yes, OK boss"

Perhaps, but we don't see such conversations on the course whereas we do with other players. I know absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence but I've been interested in this for some time and I make a point of studying their body language. I see nothing that suggests JP makes any effort to counsel or work on Rory's mental attitude.

I'm not saying it is all his fault - it may well be that Rory wants it like that. But I think its a weakness in their partnership when Rory is having an off day.

Keano · 23-02-2016 3:53pm

The caddy talk is really getting tiresome. Rory has won 4 majors, 2 race to Dubai, and countless other tournaments with the same man on his bag.

First Up · 23-02-2016 4:34pm

Keano wrote: »

The caddy talk is really getting tiresome. Rory has won 4 majors, 2 race to Dubai, and countless other tournaments with the same man on his bag.

He has also had several high profile collapses with the same caddy seeming to be a helpless observer. It isn't an issue when Rory is on song, but that's not what/when we are talking about.

It is a valid topic for discussion; the caddy's role has been well researched and documented and I for one think their on-course relationship doesn't always deliver what it might.

Hoof Hearted2 · 23-02-2016 4:47pm

First Up wrote: »

He has also had several high profile collapses with the same caddy seeming to be a helpless observer. It isn't an issue when Rory is on song, but that's not what/when we are talking about.

It is a valid topic for discussion; the caddy's role has been well researched and documented and I for one think their on-course relationship doesn't always deliver what it might.

There's no question about the role of a caddy in the success of some player, but in Rory's case I don't think it is as important as some are making out.
Also If some people don't want to discuss or read others opinions about the subject, then jog on, this thread isn't for you.

charlieIRL · 23-02-2016 4:50pm

Keano wrote: »

The caddy talk is really getting tiresome. Rory has won 4 majors, 2 race to Dubai, and countless other tournaments with the same man on his bag.

Definitely.

Good tournament, they are a great player
Bad tournament, must be the caddie!!

Was anyone calling for Joe Skovron's head after he let Ricky Fowler take driver instead of laying up on the drivable Par 4 2 weeks ago? Ultimately finding the water cost him the win.

Seve OB · 23-02-2016 5:00pm

First Up wrote: »

He has also had several high profile collapses with the same caddy seeming to be a helpless observer. It isn't an issue when Rory is on song, but that's not what/when we are talking about.

Hmmmmmm....... Well, one. When he was young and immature. And do you know what JP said to him (or didn't say to him) that day that made him such a helpless observer?

First Up wrote: »

It is a valid topic for discussion; the caddy's role has been well researched and documented and I for one think their on-course relationship doesn't always deliver what it might.

Not really. It is only a select few that seem to have a gripe about JP (what did he do to you?), and every time Rory has a bad round they use it as an excuse to have a go at the bag man.

I suppose it was JP's fault he played 5 a side and went over on his ankle last year. And it was probably JP who ruined his engagement too! :rolleyes:

FixdePitchmark · 23-02-2016 5:13pm

It think it is a part of the game that golf fans can be observers in and comment if they want.
Different pros want different environments to play their best golf.

So - I'd say Rory is very happy.
He has no issue changing and moving on in his personal and professional life.
So clearly it is working for him.

There is a chance we have also overestimated the caddy influence too. Steve williams thing got out of hand.
That thing with bubba is nuts as he is nuts.
And , Spieth just like to talk to something.

Some players even look up their own distances. THey hit balls all day long and know their own yardage backwards too.
It is a personal thing.

JP - could be able to do the other style - if that is what a player wanted - he has had bags at the top level prior to Rory.

First Up · 23-02-2016 5:40pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Hmmmmmm....... Well, one. When he was young and immature. And do you know what JP said to him (or didn't say to him) that day that made him such a helpless observer?

Not really. It is only a select few that seem to have a gripe about JP (what did he do to you?), and every time Rory has a bad round they use it as an excuse to have a go at the bag man.

I suppose it was JP's fault he played 5 a side and went over on his ankle last year. And it was probably JP who ruined his engagement too! :rolleyes:

Not just the Masters. He lost it while leading in Australia and also at the Open in St Andrews a few years ago when he more or less gave up on the Friday. He shot 80 in the first round of the Irish last year on a course he has been playing sine he was about nine.

Of course anyone can have a bad day (look who's talking) but to me there is a striking absence of interaction between them when things are not going well and it contrasts with what I see other caddies do - and with the stories you hear about famous player/caddy relationships.

I have nothing against JP - he has been on some top bags and obviously knows his job well. It may be all Rory's doing - the word seems to be that he is not great at taking advice and some of his decisions in other spheres would support that. The two of them get on very well - they call each other friends. That sounds grand but off the course friendship and support needs to be complemented by the right support on it.

alxmorgan · 23-02-2016 6:06pm

I for one think the obvious solution is Steve Williams on the bag. After all he is a very confident front runner

yipsnomore · 23-02-2016 7:56pm

Veering away from the caddy issue;

The Masters could easily become to McIlroy what the USOpen has become to Mickelson. This will be the hardest of all for him to win. Unbearable pressure and competitors like Spieth and Bubba who love Augusta. Thats why I'm looking forward so much to the Masters again this year.

Win and he never again has to do a thing on a golf course. A genuine top tier legend. So outside of the caddy name the one thing he has to do well at Augusta to win this year.

I'll go with the no brainer and say Lag Putting !!!

alxmorgan · 23-02-2016 10:04pm

yipsnomore wrote: »

Veering away from the caddy issue;

The Masters could easily become to McIlroy what the USOpen has become to Mickelson. This will be the hardest of all for him to win. Unbearable pressure and competitors like Spieth and Bubba who love Augusta. Thats why I'm looking forward so much to the Masters again this year.

Win and he never again has to do a thing on a golf course. A genuine top tier legend. So outside of the caddy name the one thing he has to do well at Augusta to win this year.

I'll go with the no brainer and say Lag Putting !!!

Get Dave Stockton to spend the week with him

First Up · 23-02-2016 10:29pm

alxmorgan wrote:

Get Dave Stockton to spend the week with him

I think he already did. Augusta will be fascinating for sure.

Mantis Toboggan · 23-02-2016 10:31pm

First Up wrote: »

I think he already did. Augusta will be fascinating for sure.

Apart from the live coverage, always irritates me.

First Up · 23-02-2016 11:21pm

Tyson Fury wrote:

Apart from the live coverage, always irritates me.

To be honest, the hype drives me nuts too but it helps if there is someone of interest in contention.

Jayop · 24-02-2016 5:15pm

The most annoying thing about the coverage for the masters is the lack of it the first two days.

valoren · 24-02-2016 5:39pm

yipsnomore wrote: »

Veering away from the caddy issue;

The Masters could easily become to McIlroy what the USOpen has become to Mickelson. This will be the hardest of all for him to win. Unbearable pressure and competitors like Spieth and Bubba who love Augusta. Thats why I'm looking forward so much to the Masters again this year.

Win and he never again has to do a thing on a golf course. A genuine top tier legend. So outside of the caddy name the one thing he has to do well at Augusta to win this year.

I'll go with the no brainer and say Lag Putting !!!

Reminds me of Nick Faldo asking Ben Hogan what he had to do to win the US Open.

"Shoot the lowest score" :pac:

I would think it's a question of when, not if with McIlroy at Augusta.
His power game with the high draw is made for Augusta.
A solid week putting and no blow up rounds and he will win there one day.

Seve OB · 24-02-2016 5:56pm

Jayop wrote: »

The most annoying thing about the coverage for the masters is the lack of it the first two days.

every bit as much of coverage on Thursday and Friday as there is on Saturday and Sunday. In actual fact, half an hour more each day than there is on Saturday and only half an hour less than the Sunday.

http://www.masters.com/en_US/tournament/schedule.html

Jayop · 24-02-2016 6:08pm

Seve OB wrote: »

every bit as much of coverage on Thursday and Friday as there is on Saturday and Sunday. In actual fact, half an hour more each day than there is on Saturday and only half an hour less than the Sunday.

http://www.masters.com/en_US/tournament/schedule.html

Not the standard live coverage.

Thursday and Friday is only from 3-7.30pm EST
Saturday is 2pm to 7pm EST
Sunday is 2pm to 7pm EST

Given that there's many less players at the weekend you're actually seeing much more of the live play. I hate watching the featured groups or Amen corner so one of the two mornings you're not going to be able to watch whomever it is you'd like to see (ie Rory) live unless you are willing to watch the featured group he's in.

Seve OB · 25-02-2016 10:48am

Jayop wrote: »

Not the standard live coverage.

Thursday and Friday is only from 3-7.30pm EST
Saturday is 2pm to 7pm EST
Sunday is 2pm to 7pm EST

Given that there's many less players at the weekend you're actually seeing much more of the live play. I hate watching the featured groups or Amen corner so one of the two mornings you're not going to be able to watch whomever it is you'd like to see (ie Rory) live unless you are willing to watch the featured group he's in.

But sure that is the way it is in every tournament!

WHIP IT! · 25-02-2016 11:15am

yipsnomore wrote: »

Veering away from the caddy issue;

The Masters could easily become to McIlroy what the USOpen has become to Mickelson. This will be the hardest of all for him to win. Unbearable pressure and competitors like Spieth and Bubba who love Augusta. Thats why I'm looking forward so much to the Masters again this year.

Win and he never again has to do a thing on a golf course. A genuine top tier legend. So outside of the caddy name the one thing he has to do well at Augusta to win this year.

I'll go with the no brainer and say Lag Putting !!!

I think it's somewhat unfortunate that the Masters is the final tournament Rory must win for the 'Career Grand Slam'... it's the first Major of the year and, like the Ryder Cup etc, the build-up for it seems to start earlier and earlier each... so Rory gets faced with 7/8 months of 'Can you do it this time? Is this your year?' etc etc... Like others have said, I think he will eventually win at Augusta and, at least, if he doesn't - according to some of the plebs on here, he can blame the chap who carries his bag.

How many days til Augusta, anyhoo?

Jayop · 25-02-2016 12:02pm

Seve OB wrote: »

But sure that is the way it is in every tournament!

Not the other majors. The Open for example seems to have coverage live from first thing in the morning all four days.

The Masters have some broadcast rule in place that's exclusive to that tournament if memory serves me.

Speak Now · 25-02-2016 12:22pm

Jayop wrote: »

Not the other majors. The Open for example seems to have coverage live from first thing in the morning all four days.

The Masters have some broadcast rule in place that's exclusive to that tournament if memory serves me.

The open coverage in pretty unique to be fair, lets hope Sky don't dilute it. They surely wont apart from the add breaks.

Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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