Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

Limerick win it, quite fortunate to do so judging by the lads on the limerick thread. Well we still need to win our 2 games, but if we do it will likely come down to scoring difference. Big if though as Wexford away won't be easy

Nothing changes really, well need our best performance of the league so far to beat Wexford. Would be nice to get that because the last two years when we've looked promising we've been rocked back on our heels.

HatchetMan7

Punt Road wrote: »

Think you hit the nail on the head there Ropaire. I think Brick will stay in forwards [and maybe a midfield role] for the foreseeable and at least give give that option of a sticky hand. The 3 starting half forwards yesterday were Brick, Mahony and Dunford and we still didn’t win a whole lot of puckout cleanly. [I think even Bricks hand is not as good facing the other way.] Replace Brick with someone like Jake or O’halloran and the puck outs become 30/70 or worse. We use the short puck out startegy because we don’t have a Dan or Seamus to puck it to.

The short puck outs is there to either
- Get it past that half back line into space in front of the full forward line.
- Create greater movement / confusion to help avoid a straight one on one catching match e.g. a cross field ball to a midfielder / half forward who has created space by a less anticipated run than it would have been from a puck out.

Short puck outs can be frustrating and its possibly the worst thing in the world to look at when it goes wrong and a corner forward nips in to rob an easy score but it’s a more effective way of maintaining possession and creating a scroring chance yourself. I’d rather see 2 short puck out disasters per game than 70% of our puck outs landing back in our half back / full back lines.

However you cant hit every puck out / free / passage of play short and that’s why Brick is been played at half forward.

No where it will get interseting is the return of Maurice and Dara Fives. If (and I underline “if”) these guys can give us some real options we could end up with something along the lines of:

Sok
Noel
Shane Fives
De Burca
Dara Fives
Gleeson
Phillip M
Brick
Moran / Barron
Maurice
Paudie
Dunford
O’Halloran / St. Bennett
Dillon
Sh. Bennett

I’m a big fan of making your house safe and that full back line would make me sleep better at night.

The midfield and fowards arn't perfect its fair to say but some combination of the above and mix in the likes of Ryan Donnolly etc you may find the gold.

Brian Cody moved his best wing back Delaney to full back because your not going to win an all Ireland conceding goals. I've mentioned Brick before but he does lack that pace over the first five yards which is important for fullback. Moran has played there before for wit, but maybe Philip Mahoney is the player to do that job. He would be a loss to the halfback line but with Dara Fives coming back and M O Neil, Moran and Prendergast we have plenty options for halfback line.

Sok
Fives. Mahoney. Conners
D. Fives. Gleeson. De Burca
Moran. Barron
Maurice. Mahoney. Brick
O halloran. Dunford Sh. Bennett

Stevie Bennett and Dillon as impact sub's.

Low ball to the inside line and they would cause problems for any team.

PTH2009

We have to play out of our skin now to get promotion we must score big vs Antrim and Wexford. Wexford away will be like a championship game given we beat Antrim. Limerick have Laois and Offaly to play and Limerick will win with big scores

I think we will beat Antrim and draw with Wexford. Limerick must be favourites for promotion now

Ropaire

PTH2009 wrote: »

We have to play out of our skin now to get promotion we must score big vs Antrim and Wexford. Wexford away will be like a championship game given we beat Antrim. Limerick have Laois and Offaly to play and Limerick will win with big scores

I think we will beat Antrim and draw with Wexford. Limerick must be favourites for promotion now

You're right, we should give up now cos it's all just utterly, utterly hopeless.

archieknox

Lismore 4.17
Mt Sion 2.11

Early in the season I know but surely not many saw this coming today in the Sergeant Cup final? I presume the city side were understrength missing the county and WIT players but even still I wouldn't have seen that hammering coming! Maybe my writing off of Lismore earlier in the year was a bit premature?
I haven't seen a report of it anywhere so if anyone could enlighten us it would be great.
Dungarvan beat the Waterford u21's by 0.24 to 1.14 today but I wasn't at it so haven't heard any report on it either.

stumblingblock

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Brian Cody moved his best wing back Delaney to full back because your not going to win an all Ireland conceding goals. I've mentioned Brick before but he does lack that pace over the first five yards which is important for fullback. Moran has played there before for wit, but maybe Philip Mahoney is the player to do that job. He would be a loss to the halfback line but with Dara Fives coming back and M O Neil, Moran and Prendergast we have plenty options for halfback line.

Sok
Fives. Mahoney. Conners
D. Fives. Gleeson. De Burca
Moran. Barron
Maurice. Mahoney. Brick
O halloran. Dunford Sh. Bennett

Stevie Bennett and Dillon as impact sub's.

Low ball to the inside line and they would cause problems for any team.

De burca is the man for full back if i was moving anyone back there. Brick is not a full back that experiment was tried before. As with Moran. Mahony could be a long shot but ive never seen or heard of him play there so can't say

stumblingblock

PTH2009 wrote: »

I think we will beat Antrim

Am i seeing things?

Mountainlad

archieknox wrote: »

Lismore 4.17
Mt Sion 2.11

Early in the season I know but surely not many saw this coming today in the Sergeant Cup final? I presume the city side were understrength missing the county and WIT players but even still I wouldn't have seen that hammering coming! Maybe my writing off of Lismore earlier in the year was a bit premature?
I haven't seen a report of it anywhere so if anyone could enlighten us it would be great.
Dungarvan beat the Waterford u21's by 0.24 to 1.14 today but I wasn't at it so haven't heard any report on it either.

Id say writing anyone off before a ball has been pucked in a challenge game is premature, yeah.

KevIRL

Eddie Brennan indicating on League Sunday tonight that Waterford and limerick would play off for promotion. Now I like the guy as s pundit, he's v good. But this sort of thing irks me, its not very hard to check and see its the top team who get promoted automatically and with no play needed

archieknox

Mountainlad wrote: »

Id say writing anyone off before a ball has been pucked in a challenge game is premature, yeah.

So in your expert opinion how will the famed fourmilewater get on this year?

Mountainlad

archieknox wrote: »

So in your expert opinion how will the famed fourmilewater get on this year?

No idea, I wouldn't write them off. Mind you, I wouldn't write anyone off. I certainly wouldn't be suggesting Ballygunner, Mount Sion, Dungarvan and DLS have it to lose. DLS have not impressed in the last two knockout stages, Denis Walsh looks like a step down from Hartley for the Gunners and I think the championship is quite competitive so two in a row is no mean feat anyway, Mount Sion have to recover from a woeful hammering in the County final. They were very impressive v DLS but Id be concerned about there forwards. Of the 4 semi finalists, Dungarvan do look like the ones you'd say have the greatest potential to improve especially with Kieran Power on board now. Again, twould be the forwards that Id be a little concerned about though in reality I don't think any side has a forward line say like DLS in 2010. Dungarvans best forward save Crotty if he plays there are quite young so again it could be another year or two before they are shooting the lights out in County semis and finals.

Lismore have lots of talent and if they got it right down there could be right in the mix, Passage have good hurlers and a County title to their name so should be respected and the rest will need big improvements on last year to be contenders but certainly not impossible.

That's my opinion anyway, I think its open. I just think its a bit dismissive and disrespectful to 8 clubs to adopt an attitude "Sorry lads, but ye might as well not turn up".

stumblingblock

archieknox wrote: »

So in your expert opinion how will the famed fourmilewater get on this year?

Please dont start with the club sledging crap

Cake Man

Bit of a sickner for us with Limerick getting that late winner, a draw there would have really opened it up for us. Still have to beat Antrim and Wexford so not much changes but it's a possibility we could win our next two games and still not top the group.

We've a 16pt scoring difference and hopefully that'll increase after Antrim next weekend which would leave Limerick having to put up a very big score over Laois in their last game (they'd probably have to win by 20+ pts to cover us if we were to look after Wexford).
Laois would hopefully put up some resistance as they'd have everything to play for as they could still make a league quarter spot.

cul beag

Cake Man wrote: »

Bit of a sickner for us with Limerick getting that late winner, a draw there would have really opened it up for us. Still have to beat Antrim and Wexford so not much changes but it's a possibility we could win our next two games and still not top the group.

We've a 16pt scoring difference and hopefully that'll increase after Antrim next weekend which would leave Limerick having to put up a very big score over Laois in their last game (they'd probably have to win by 20+ pts to cover us if we were to look after Wexford).
Laois would hopefully put up some resistance as they'd have everything to play for as they could still make a league quarter spot.

Hopefully we come out of the fitz replay unscathed aswell because we need the those lads if we are to put up the scores you speak of. Would be nice to be promoted but not the end of the world,a competitive victory in the q/final would help us even more going into the Cork game. Confidence must be high though at the moment.

hurler on de ditch

tomwaterford wrote: »

It is a long term failing of Waterford ball winners upfront for Waterford....on paper at least is that not what the brick is in the forwards for??

a ball winner is one thing ,,but if you cant hit the ball with a hurl ,well!

archieknox

stumblingblock wrote: »

Please dont start with the club sledging crap

Point taken. After all we are weeks away from the championship.

HatchetMan7

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

a ball winner is one thing ,,but if you cant hit the ball with a hurl ,well!

So the real question is should Brick be starting come championship and if yes then what is his best position for Waterford.

Ropaire

Watching the Cork Dublin match O'Farrell at full forward looked very lively, Caughlan hasn't done much wrong so far this year but he hasn't really needed to as the opposition hasn't been brilliant if we're honest. That was a big score put up by Cork and although the Jackeens were dire, if Cork can they'll most likely look to match that type of gameplan against us in June. Its a long way off yet, but it would be nice to see lads tried in a few positions while we still have handy games, esp at full back as we cant go back to Lawlor now. Bar a big upset vs Antrim the level of opposition goes up a bit starting with the Wexicans, it'll be interesting to see how we react.

hurler on de ditch

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

So the real question is should Brick be starting come championship and if yes then what is his best position for Waterford.

his best position, is and always has been midfield where his superb athleticism has proved to be his best asset ,a great ball winner,a very good reader of the game ,an uncanny gift for being in the right place most of the time ,but when you compare him to a scoring midfield player from Tipp,KK,Cork,etc he does not contribute anything in this department and never has, for me his best days are well and truly behind him,can he dominate a game in any position he is given im afraid no is the answer ,,that does not mean he is a poor hurler far from it ,im my opinion he is passed his best days ,every dog has his day,you got to know when to hold them and when to fold them!

brickeyvalley

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Ya the Waterford footballers should build their team around Connor gleeson. Is he on the football panel or hurling panel or neither?

I don't see how you could build a team around a corner forward, and I think if you look at Waterford Football Senior Panel you have players like Ray Kelly, Tommy Prendergast, Shane Ahearne, Patrick Hurney who are top class footballers and probably would start for nearly any other county. Adding Players to this list over the next Five years of the last couple years minors and this years, Brian Looby, Conor Prunty, John Elsted Kevin Dwane, Ciaran O Neill, Carthach Barry, Paul Whelan Darragh O' Grady, Cormac O' Grady, Michael Sweeney, Darren McGuckian, Jack Mullaney, Joe Allen, Darragh Lyons, The Phelan's from Balinameela, Jack Guiry, Dylan Guiry, Tommy Cooney, Dermot Ryan, Conor Murray, Gavin Sheehan & Tom Devine too name on senior football over the next 10 years with a lot of preparation and maybe abit higher class manager like Jason Ryan and given 5 years as a group there is no reason why an all Ireland isn't possible. Conor Gleeson got a few good scores but you need to be better in everyother part of the field rather than going forward. You cant be the best 5 in Munster cause its incorrect. He was the best at full forward but he would of struggled midfield compared to the likes of Conor Prunty. Different players. I think you'll see over the next couple of years a lot of competition in Football from minor - Senior at county level. If u21 wasn't taken so lightly you could nearly do it over the next 3 years.

Mountainlad

I wouldn't play Gooch Cooper in Midfield or James O Donoghue, nor would I play them full back. They fully deserved their player of the year awards though.

I don't think the suggestion was that he be the sole representative of the Waterford footballers either. At the same time, lot of pressure to be putting on an 18 year old with that kind of talk.

Not doubting there are talented footballers and maybe more so than other years but we've never been above 28th best County in the country on form (and probably lower in the estimations of most) at Senior level and that is despite that Munster u21 in 2003 and a good campaign in 2007 I think it was before a bad beating in the final. Lots of lads that looked brilliant footballers on those teams, but that hasn't really helped the Senior side. And a spate of players have played inter-pro, the O'Gormans, Podge and Gary Hurney, Shane Walsh, Liam O Lionain and been given good reports after by the presiding management teams.

The obstacle is resources and interest, and until they can overcome that than challenging in Munster won't happen. I admire the optimism and good to hear that the Minor team look in good stead, will be interested following them but All-Ireland talk is daft. Have a look at Dublin's 1.5 million sponsorship deal with AIG and then Waterford's high debt and the fact that you'll get a few hundred people to a Waterford football game and compare that to the 10s of thousands Dublin attract.

hardybuck

Amazingly Colm Cooper has NEVER won a player of the year award!

Professey Chin

hardybuck wrote: »

Amazingly Colm Cooper has NEVER won a player of the year award!

He won the Texaco one but never GPA or All-Star

hardybuck

Professey Chin wrote: »

He won the Texaco one but never GPA or All-Star

Ah right, fair enough, but madness for a player of his quality.

Deise_2012

brickeyvalley wrote: »

I don't see how you could build a team around a corner forward, and I think if you look at Waterford Football Senior Panel you have players like Ray Kelly, Tommy Prendergast, Shane Ahearne, Patrick Hurney who are top class footballers and probably would start for nearly any other county. Adding Players to this list over the next Five years of the last couple years minors and this years, Brian Looby, Conor Prunty, John Elsted Kevin Dwane, Ciaran O Neill, Carthach Barry, Paul Whelan Darragh O' Grady, Cormac O' Grady, Michael Sweeney, Darren McGuckian, Jack Mullaney, Joe Allen, Darragh Lyons, The Phelan's from Balinameela, Jack Guiry, Dylan Guiry, Tommy Cooney, Dermot Ryan, Conor Murray, Gavin Sheehan & Tom Devine too name on senior football over the next 10 years with a lot of preparation and maybe abit higher class manager like Jason Ryan and given 5 years as a group there is no reason why an all Ireland isn't possible. Conor Gleeson got a few good scores but you need to be better in everyother part of the field rather than going forward. You cant be the best 5 in Munster cause its incorrect. He was the best at full forward but he would of struggled midfield compared to the likes of Conor Prunty. Different players. I think you'll see over the next couple of years a lot of competition in Football from minor - Senior at county level. If u21 wasn't taken so lightly you could nearly do it over the next 3 years.

Paul Whyte is the only player in Waterford who would start for any other county.

hardybuck

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Paul Whyte is the only player in Waterford who would start for any other county.

Probably the O'Gorman twins as well, certainly some of the lower tier counties.

Many of the names above would struggle to make the stronger senior club teams in stronger counties.

stumblingblock

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

his best position, is and always has been midfield where his superb athleticism has proved to be his best asset ,a great ball winner,a very good reader of the game ,an uncanny gift for being in the right place most of the time ,but when you compare him to a scoring midfield player from Tipp,KK,Cork,etc he does not contribute anything in this department and never has, for me his best days are well and truly behind him,can he dominate a game in any position he is given im afraid no is the answer ,,that does not mean he is a poor hurler far from it ,im my opinion he is passed his best days ,every dog has his day,you got to know when to hold them and when to fold them!

Dont know what games youve been watchin. Brick is still a hugely important player for us. Dont know where your pulling this midfieder theory from. You do realise that hes rated as being pound for pound the best centre back in the game over the past 5 or 6 years

Deskjockey

brickeyvalley wrote: »

I don't see how you could build a team around a corner forward, and I think if you look at Waterford Football Senior Panel you have players like Ray Kelly, Tommy Prendergast, Shane Ahearne, Patrick Hurney who are top class footballers and probably would start for nearly any other county. Adding Players to this list over the next Five years of the last couple years minors and this years, Brian Looby, Conor Prunty, John Elsted Kevin Dwane, Ciaran O Neill, Carthach Barry, Paul Whelan Darragh O' Grady, Cormac O' Grady, Michael Sweeney, Darren McGuckian, Jack Mullaney, Joe Allen, Darragh Lyons, The Phelan's from Balinameela, Jack Guiry, Dylan Guiry, Tommy Cooney, Dermot Ryan, Conor Murray, Gavin Sheehan & Tom Devine too name on senior football over the next 10 years with a lot of preparation and maybe abit higher class manager like Jason Ryan and given 5 years as a group there is no reason why an all Ireland isn't possible.

I"ll have some of whatever you're smoking there pal

Ballyvoile Boy

Looking at the U21 football team to play Clare there, looks like a strong enough outfit. Tom Devine at centre back and Seamus Keating in Midfield will have a big physical presence - 2 top class athletes. Potent full forward line too, Rathgormack must have some U21 team this year, looking at the starting 15. A pity Tadhg de Búrca is not named, anyone know why he's not available?

Horseboxhead

Really , Someone has to explain why tadgh de burca is not playing u 21 football?, let's penalise him by forcing him to play, and then talk about burnout like anyone bar the player gives a ****, He's not playing U-21 football for Waterford, cos it would be a complete waste of his time, there i said it, i mean are we really serious here, hes playing currently on about 5/6 teams and lets throw another onto that pot. I get that football is important, even in the small pockets of the county where it is the no 1 sport they could answer the above question, they would not like it, but thats the way it is, Football in Waterford is played by the committed who love the game, and the rest are the guys either dropped or not yet on the hurling panels, i know how that sounds, but lets stop with the bull****.