Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Liberty Way

Motivator

Registered

With regards to this training camp, I don't agree with it whatsoever. It is of no benefit to the team at all. These guys have been around each other for years & all no each other inside out. Fitness can't be be a problem for an intercounty team in this day & age, these days county teams have the best of technology available for fitness training so it hardly makes sense to be heading away. The real problem has to be the kind of hurling training these guys are doing. The players touch is awful, their composure is almost non existent & their decision making is terrible for this time of year. For all their talk early in the year, the players are letting themselves down. Whilst I admire them greatly for their commitment & their sacrifices they really haven't done themselves any favours in the last year.

Waterford was once everyone's second favourite team but the carry on the last couple of years has really soured people's perception of this team. Things are tough & a big couple of months are ahead before we meet Cork. I really hope the players shoulder the blame for this mess they're in. I just cannot understand the lack of effort in the last 3 games. I hope things change, quickly, because this Cork game will sneak up on us.

I suppose the cart was put b4 the horse imo as they must not have analysed their form during the league and just expected the results to look after themselves. The 1st game v Tipperary giving away that goal should not have happened and the defence has been v poor throughout the campaign playing too individual and little or no support to each other. Agree totally of the 1st touch v poor and fellows are not able to make effective decisions it looks like they are bogged down with tactics so why the heck do they the management not allow players play the game let them out and express themselves and maybe we would not have been relegated. We will never know now and looking at the game from Thurles at the way we have being defending I fear the Cork game and especially the fact we have not been scoring at will. Only for frees our return from play has been brutal. Give the players their heads and see what they can do all by themselves as it's in their court now!!!
Reply Thank

Deskjockey

.with all the young players Waterford have... they should be aiming to challenge for all Irelands in year or two...not struggling to get out of division two[/quote]
Ah here,I don't think this is realistic to be honest. We've won a minor final, nothing more. We have some good young fellas who have a lot to prove at u21 level never mind senior level. Our defense has been filleted in this league a few times now as regards conceding goals, and while I was under the impression, as were many others, that our team from 1-9 was as good as anybody's... that just not true now is it. Added to this our general toothlessness in attack with a almost non existent goal threat, I don't see where people's presumption comes from that we are entitled to or deserve a place in division 1a. You're there if you deserve to be there. We don't deserve to be there after the displays this year.

PTH2009

this fourm will explode on the night of the 25th may if Cork hammer us lol

Funny moment today when the announcer put on the wrong record instead of putting on the national anthem lol

tomwaterford

Deskjockey wrote: »

.
Ah here,I don't think this is realistic to be honest. We've won a minor final, nothing more. We have some good young fellas who have a lot to prove at u21 level never mind senior level. Our defense has been filleted in this league a few times now as regards conceding goals, and while I was under the impression, as were many others, that our team from 1-9 was as good as anybody's... that just not true now is it. Added to this our general toothlessness in attack with a almost non existent goal threat, I don't see where people's presumption comes from that we are entitled to or deserve a place in division 1a. You're there if you deserve to be there. We don't deserve to be there after the displays this year.

probily a little bit extreme optimisim alright there with challenging the all Ireland...:cool:
(I may be following Waterford to long:pac::pac:)

but I was really hoping they would push on this year and cut down number of wides...they would have been challenging for the league...not falling asunder and creating little or no goal scoring chance

remember all the wides they used to get last year.the regret after every defeat:cool:

last year in division 1a they conceded the lowest score (4-75)

which is where the impression of a good defence came from!!

this year they conceded 13-76 excluding today...which remarkably isn't the highest amount conceded tipp have conceded more....but they have scored 8 goals more than Waterford
have Waterford even created 8 goal chances over the entire league??

the lack of forwards has always been a grave concern....they always struggled to score enough(lack of ball winners a huge concern)....at least they were creating a few chances
for long stretches last week against Kilkenny they didn't even play forwards

on performances this year they shouldn't be even in division 1b

tomwaterford

PTH2009 wrote: »

this fourm will explode on the night of the 25th may if when Cork hammer us lol

bruschi

Welcome into division 2! At least we get a south east derby going again, although I doubt its anything to be looking forward to.

Just one quick one, I have seen things about fund raising for the team fund, basically putting in money for no return other than the thanks of the team (other counties may have sponsor spots, or for less money a ticket to games, or some sort of token gesture). But I also see people talking about a training trip in Portugal? Do people seriously want to pay for a team to go to Portugal 'to train' after they have just been relegated? Seems hugely deluded to be out fund raising, and spending the money to go to Portugal mid season.

Ropaire

How did Brian O'Sullivan last the game? For our second point of the game he had a path to goal and took his point instead of going for it. Schutte had a harder chance from a similar position and busted the net! Ray Barry was v good and was hauled ashore, Shane Walsh had a decent showing when he replaced Pender too but these lads are behind O'sullivan in the pecking order? Total joke.

Darragh Fives added some drive when he came on and scored a goal off the back of nothing more than being a support runner from deep. None of our forwards have no drive going forward like that as they seem to be more concerned with tracking back and covering space or they dont have the balls to go for goals when the chances are there and take the point. Same **** again tactically after a decent start, where we started 15 on 15 and had an inside forward line we looked good. Then they all retreating back the field, prob out of muscle memory at this stage and when Sully got his marching orders we were done for. Shambolic showing in the end with no fight or balls on show, thats not good enough.

I'd get rid of McGrath after today, that he was happy with that farcical showing says it all. Mrs Brown would have a better clue whats going on. Skin Ryan or someone would be a big improvement but the county board havent the bottle to do it incase they have to show some leaderahip and take responsibility. Far easier to just hide and watch hurling in the county go down the tubes.

Liberty Way

Quote: PTH2009

Back to the dark days. Can see Laois and the likes beating us in the championship.


Talking of Laois they have made serious strides and played v good against the All Ireland champions today by all accounts and that with 14 players for over 40 minutes. The goal conceeded b4 half time was a blow to them and from accounts it should have been a free out. That is a plus for Laois and when you consider that 3 of last years Waterford management are now in the Laois set up Payne, Flanagan and Ger Cunningham Laois gained from the Waterford players decision. From what I'm hearing Laois are gutted by today's result and are looking forward. Obviously I would have to agree and their manager believes in his players and they are listening and working to his instructions. Oh and he is a native and hasn't got a list of titles to his name just surrounded himself with a good setup. Part of that same setup was in Waterford last year and Ger Cunningham was to be with Waterford on a full time basis this year but players, ex players and the current manager said they would do a better job!!! Oh boy definitely didn't do a better job but did take the county where it never dreamed of with the appointment of the A Team!!!!!!!!

Ropaire

bruschi wrote: »

Welcome into division 2! At least we get a south east derby going again, although I doubt its anything to be looking forward to.

Just one quick one, I have seen things about fund raising for the team fund, basically putting in money for no return other than the thanks of the team (other counties may have sponsor spots, or for less money a ticket to games, or some sort of token gesture). But I also see people talking about a training trip in Portugal? Do people seriously want to pay for a team to go to Portugal 'to train' after they have just been relegated? Seems hugely deluded to be out fund raising, and spending the money to go to Portugal mid season.

Yeah its a joke, the facebook campaign for it brands people who don't contribute as not real fans and against the county. Another shambolic and shameless waste of resources. See ye next year as well, at least mileage will be down a bit travelling for that one!

Mountainlad

There is definitely one or two being a bit unreasonable here. This is as bad a day as I've had since going to games but if we're being fair about proceedings today, it's hard to blame the players or the management too much.

For a start they did not follow the same game plan as last weekend. It was 15 v 15 at the start and we were cleaning up. Molumphy hurled a load of ball and there was some good intelligent ball played into the forwards. They were clearly well up for it which was commendable after last weekend (though in fairness you expect no less). Ray Barry started brightly again as did Paudi Mahony. Tadhg Bourke was hurling brilliantly, Noel Connors had Paul Ryan in his pocket. Shane Fives was immense second half and the only thing he really did wrong all game was get caught out of position to give away the 20m free that Ryan buried.

To be honest, I was disappointed that one was let in as it didn't seem like he struck it that well to me. Nonetheless, I still think we certainly had the better of proceedings and was happy enough.


Then came the sending off. Now, I haven't had a chance to see league sunday but it's been confirmed that it was a ridiculous sending off. In saying that, my own reaction was that 5 minutes previous Moran should have been sent off for a pull on Ryan O'Dwyer. I believe that Johnny Ryan was aware of that when he produce the red card for Sully. What appears to have happened to me is that the ball was laid off, Carton's momentum took him on and he collided with Shane Sully. Sully raised his arms to brace for impact and Carton's head connected with Sullivan's hurley. The ref heard the noise. Red card. Not sure whether to feel aggrieved or say well it balanced itself out.

Either way there is no doubt in my mind that that killed it really. I think SOK would have saved the 2nd goal, and given he was ruled with an injury you would say that again was a stroke of misfortune. So too was the loss of Molumphy who was absolutely flying and it took a lot away from us. I was delighted to see Darragh back, and a measure of the guy that in 1 minute on the field he scored as many as the team had in the previous 370 or so, but he wasn't fit enough and I am very concerned that the injury flared up again.

So a depleted squad becomes more depleted. Gave management little option with who they'd left. I do agree, however, that Brian O'Sullivan once again stayed on the field incorrectly. He did little right, even his point he should have headed for goal. So what if it's saved, you have to at least go for it. I hate to be too harsh or focus too much on one player but he's not the answer. It was very disconcerting that he was left on while Barry was taken off.

Seamus is past it too I'm afraid. He's far too immobile, was at nothing out there today and has been like that in any game I've seen this year. Shane Walsh at least had there defense under some pressure though he clearly need a good bit of hurling training but good to see him back at least.

O'Brien saw very little of it and in my opinion the experience will do him good but Austin Gleeson looked very nervous out there and think it's too soon for him.






Our problem in defense in my opinion is no longer the full back line, it's the half back line. While Nagle has excelled with dirty ball, and has been clever in possession mostly, his lack of pace was exposed badly today. It was first shown in 2010 against Clare, and again prominent in the munster final for O'Connor's goal. Shame to say it because I always thought he was a decent hurler, but he just has zero pace and won't have anywhere to hide in the championship.

Brick has been far less assertive than normal the last couple of games and again don't think he'll make up the ground quickly enough anymore when a defender steps inside him. Moran as a result must stay back there, the only one with pace but at the same time he's quite loose and has been far from sparkling so far this season.


So when you are playing 14 v 15 with that extra space, and your half back line can be penetrated so easily by quick runners and support play (which is one thing Dublin certainly seemed to do a lot better than us) then your full back line doesn't really stand a chance.







On the trip to Portugal, people suggesting they use the money for something else seem to have forgotten that the players are funding a lot of it themselves. I think to be honest getting out of the Country for a little bit mightn't be bad for them. The perception that they're going to sip mojitos by the beach smacks of ignorance, and is probably coming from the same quarters as those that seem to think the players go to Carriganore because there's a good pub down there.

The team needs the support now more than they ever did. The fact is nobody really fully knows what happened last August, nor do we know what happened through the majority of the year. I would always have thought performances would have been an indication of player morale, and didn't think we did badly at all last year. Don't think right was done by Michael Ryan either, but I'm not convinced by this conspiracy theory that it was a scheme hatched by the 'malevolent' Derek McGrath. I am also not prepared to hold it against the players.


Final words, Waterford have given everyone here plenty of days of happiness since 1998. The lads there now train very hard, as do all, and give up a lot of what many here would not dream of parting with. I still believe they are giving it their best in training and their discipline outside of that. While I don't think last weekend or the weekend before's performances were good enough I still believe those in charge of the team are aware of that and are doing what they can to rectify that. They have the best intentions of the team, and while they may not get it right, want Waterford to succeed just as much as any of us.

We're at nothing, though, if the fans don't get behind the team. I hope that much is remembered in May

Ropaire

Liberty Way wrote: »

Quote: PTH2009

Back to the dark days. Can see Laois and the likes beating us in the championship.


Talking of Laois they have made serious strides and played v good against the All Ireland champions today by all accounts and that with 14 players for over 40 minutes. The goal conceeded b4 half time was a blow to them and from accounts it should have been a free out. That is a plus for Laois and when you consider that 3 of last years Waterford management are now in the Laois set up Payne, Flanagan and Ger Cunningham Laois gained from the Waterford players decision. From what I'm hearing Laois are gutted by today's result and are looking forward. Obviously I would have to agree and their manager believes in his players and they are listening and working to his instructions. Oh and he is a native and hasn't got a list of titles to his name just surrounded himself with a good setup. Part of that same setup was in Waterford last year and Ger Cunningham was to be with Waterford on a full time basis this year but players, ex players and the current manager said they would do a better job!!! Oh boy definitely didn't do a better job but did take the county where it never dreamed of with the appointment of the A Team!!!!!!!!

Fair play to Plunkett, he got a serious set up in place there and they're reaping the rewards. Hope they have a good year, be great to see more teams emerge for the good of hurlong in general. If only we had a setup like that... Oh wait, we ****ed them all out on their ear to keep it local to east Waterford.

IanVW

Are we doing the1-1-1 thing this year?:P

sid wallace

Ropaire wrote: »

Fair play to Plunkett, he got a serious set up in place there and they're reaping the rewards. Hope they have a good year, be great to see more teams emerge for the good of hurlong in general. If only we had a setup like that... Oh wait, we ****ed them all out on their ear to keep it local to east Waterford.

That's a fairly ignorant comment really. There were 7 players from the West on the field today and the current manager is the first from the East since 1985. The last three results have been poor and I am very disappointed that the county have been relegated for the first time since the mid 90s. On the other hand the manager has said that the league is not a priority and there is no doubt that Clare used D2 to build a young team.

Having said that, I have sat through the managers PowerPoint presentation twice and both times thought that he is biting too much off. Too many initiatives, player welfare, social initiatives etc. I don't believe other managers are wasting time on this. It smacks of school team management. We need to focus all of our management resources - I think - on skills training and tactics.

With regard to the All Ireland minor win, it is worth remembering that our best ever underage year, 1992, was followed by a humiliation against Kerry in 1993, a narrow loss to Limerick in 1994, a humiliation against Tipp in 1995, a narrow loss (with a strong hint of damage limitation) against Tipp in 1996 and a decisive beating by Limerick in 1997. It was 6 years before we won a championship game against Tipp in 98 (only after a terrible fright against Kerry down in Tralee).

We have a great crop of young players coming through but we've lost a tremendous group of senior players over the last 5 years. Whatever one thinks of the manager we need to be a little bit patient.

jive

sid wallace wrote: »

We have a great crop of young players coming through but we've lost a tremendous group of senior players over the last 5 years. Whatever one thinks of the manager we need to be a little bit patient.

I think people are more annoyed about selections and tactics rather than management not meeting unrealistic expectations. To be fair, most on this board have been patient for the last 2 or 3 years waiting for the younger players to develop into senior standard players. The progression under previous management was steady and evident for all to see; this year we have regressed considerably in terms of performances and questions are rightly being asked IMO even if it is only March.

Helpneeded86

Deskjockey wrote: »

.with all the young players Waterford have... they should be aiming to challenge for all Irelands in year or two...not struggling to get out of division two

Ah here,I don't think this is realistic to be honest. We've won a minor final, nothing more. We have some good young fellas who have a lot to prove at u21 level never mind senior level. Our defense has been filleted in this league a few times now as regards conceding goals, and while I was under the impression, as were many others, that our team from 1-9 was as good as anybody's... that just not true now is it. Added to this our general toothlessness in attack with a almost non existent goal threat, I don't see where people's presumption comes from that we are entitled to or deserve a place in division 1a. You're there if you deserve to be there. We don't deserve to be there after the displays this year.

[/QUOTE]
1 Minor AI doesnt translate to senior success that is well proven. It was mentioned earlier in the thread about potential managers for the future. What about Bonnar after his success down through the years with WIT. He would have worked with a lot of the players and from what I hear he is well liked.

sid wallace

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Ah here,I don't think this is realistic to be honest. We've won a minor final, nothing more. We have some good young fellas who have a lot to prove at u21 level never mind senior level. Our defense has been filleted in this league a few times now as regards conceding goals, and while I was under the impression, as were many others, that our team from 1-9 was as good as anybody's... that just not true now is it. Added to this our general toothlessness in attack with a almost non existent goal threat, I don't see where people's presumption comes from that we are entitled to or deserve a place in division 1a. You're there if you deserve to be there. We don't deserve to be there after the displays this year.

1 Minor AI doesnt translate to senior success that is well proven. It was mentioned earlier in the thread about potential managers for the future. What about Bonnar after his success down through the years with WIT. He would have worked with a lot of the players and from what I hear he is well liked.[/QUOTE]

Bonner has been a notable failure in senior inter county management.

Just one other point. There have been numerous references to playing hurling the Waterford way. Which I assume is a lot of first time hurling played with reckless abandon. While this can be lovely to watch, it hasn't come close to winning us an All Ireland in 55 years. Maybe it's time to look at an alternative. It may be that McGraths blueprint is not the one to bring us success but we were never going to win one the way we were going.

3ships

SOK


Barry Coughlan Liam Lawlor Stephen Daniels


Paudie Prender Philip Mahony Daragh Fives


Richie Foley Stephen Molumphy


Brian O Halloran Maurice Shan Jake Dillon


Jamie Barron Martin O Neill Stephen Bennett


Now for whatever reason these players were inj./unavailable/not selected today.
I'd still be positive for this year but maybe not for the training games in Portugal

alllcounty

The buzz words with this new manager seems to be 'building for the future', patient, learning. We have been rebuilding for the last number of years, this year we should have continued that upward curve and seriously challenge the top 2 teams, instead we are going in the opposite direction. Remember it was the eastern players that wanted Derek McGrath and it was the western players that wanted Ryan and the management team to stay on.

I fear no matter how bad the county team will get under this new manager, Derek will still try convince everyone including himself that some time in the future it will come good even if it takes 3 or 4 years. What have the eastern players to say for themselves. After all the backstabbing last September has it been worthed to replace the prior management team with Derek and Dan. Is this the progress they were looking for and is Derek the man to take them to the next level. The eastern players have left the supporters and county down with their badly timed meeting and now we are seeing the results of it.

TheScoringGoal

Just one point. It wasn't exclusively the east that wanted Ryan out. A high profile player from a western club led that.

Deskjockey

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Just one point. It wasn't exclusively the east that wanted Ryan out. A high profile player from a western club led that.

This East West stuff is bull****.

alllcounty

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

Just one point. It wasn't exclusively the east that wanted Ryan out. A high profile player from a western club led that.

Then name that player. He hasn't done the county any favours.

Hslaw

Liberty Way wrote: »

Quote: PTH2009

Back to the dark days. Can see Laois and the likes beating us in the championship.


Talking of Laois they have made serious strides and played v good against the All Ireland champions today by all accounts and that with 14 players for over 40 minutes. The goal conceeded b4 half time was a blow to them and from accounts it should have been a free out. That is a plus for Laois and when you consider that 3 of last years Waterford management are now in the Laois set up Payne, Flanagan and Ger Cunningham Laois gained from the Waterford players decision. From what I'm hearing Laois are gutted by today's result and are looking forward. Obviously I would have to agree and their manager believes in his players and they are listening and working to his instructions. Oh and he is a native and hasn't got a list of titles to his name just surrounded himself with a good setup. Part of that same setup was in Waterford last year and Ger Cunningham was to be with Waterford on a full time basis this year but players, ex players and the current manager said they would do a better job!!! Oh boy definitely didn't do a better job but did take the county where it never dreamed of with the appointment of the A Team!!!!!!!!

Let's call them the B team

sid wallace

alllcounty wrote: »

The buzz words with this new manager seems to be 'building for the future', patient, learning. We have been rebuilding for the last number of years, this year we should have continued that upward curve and seriously challenge the top 2 teams, instead we are going in the opposite direction. Remember it was the eastern players that wanted Derek McGrath and it was the western players that wanted Ryan and the management team to stay on.

I fear no matter how bad the county team will get under this new manager, Derek will still try convince everyone including himself that some time in the future it will come good even if it takes 3 or 4 years. What have the eastern players to say for themselves. After all the backstabbing last September has it been worthed to replace the prior management team with Derek and Dan. Is this the progress they were looking for and is Derek the man to take them to the next level. The eastern players have left the supporters and county down with their badly timed meeting and now we are seeing the results of it.

Have to say this Western chip on the shoulder has the real potential to drag the county down. As a follower from the City I was delighted during the noughties to see players like Big Dan, Eoin Murphy, Aidan Kearney and the Prendergasts cone through. Currently I can't wait for the Bennetts and Patrick Curran to make it. I don't get the sense that our Western Brethren feel the same way about the promising players in the East.

Ropaire

sid wallace wrote: »

That's a fairly ignorant comment really. There were 7 players from the West on the field today and the current manager is the first from the East since 1985.

I was referring to the backroom staff, a so called dream team made up of lads from the county and we after letting some serious people go. Ryans setup wasnt ideal and he did alot of messing to get it.in place but it was better than what we have now.

Slobbery

No one cares about the league if you have a good championship.
I am hoping we have a lot more options and it will suit some of our lighter players, especially forwards when the ground hardens up, at least we are well and truly lurking in the long grass.

Roll on the Cork game

Tramore84

Mountainlad wrote: »

There is definitely one or two being a bit unreasonable here. This is as bad a day as I've had since going to games but if we're being fair about proceedings today, it's hard to blame the players or the management too much.

For a start they did not follow the same game plan as last weekend. It was 15 v 15 at the start and we were cleaning up. Molumphy hurled a load of ball and there was some good intelligent ball played into the forwards. They were clearly well up for it which was commendable after last weekend (though in fairness you expect no less). Ray Barry started brightly again as did Paudi Mahony. Tadhg Bourke was hurling brilliantly, Noel Connors had Paul Ryan in his pocket. Shane Fives was immense second half and the only thing he really did wrong all game was get caught out of position to give away the 20m free that Ryan buried.

To be honest, I was disappointed that one was let in as it didn't seem like he struck it that well to me. Nonetheless, I still think we certainly had the better of proceedings and was happy enough.


Then came the sending off. Now, I haven't had a chance to see league sunday but it's been confirmed that it was a ridiculous sending off. In saying that, my own reaction was that 5 minutes previous Moran should have been sent off for a pull on Ryan O'Dwyer. I believe that Johnny Ryan was aware of that when he produce the red card for Sully. What appears to have happened to me is that the ball was laid off, Carton's momentum took him on and he collided with Shane Sully. Sully raised his arms to brace for impact and Carton's head connected with Sullivan's hurley. The ref heard the noise. Red card. Not sure whether to feel aggrieved or say well it balanced itself out.

Either way there is no doubt in my mind that that killed it really. I think SOK would have saved the 2nd goal, and given he was ruled with an injury you would say that again was a stroke of misfortune. So too was the loss of Molumphy who was absolutely flying and it took a lot away from us. I was delighted to see Darragh back, and a measure of the guy that in 1 minute on the field he scored as many as the team had in the previous 370 or so, but he wasn't fit enough and I am very concerned that the injury flared up again.

So a depleted squad becomes more depleted. Gave management little option with who they'd left. I do agree, however, that Brian O'Sullivan once again stayed on the field incorrectly. He did little right, even his point he should have headed for goal. So what if it's saved, you have to at least go for it. I hate to be too harsh or focus too much on one player but he's not the answer. It was very disconcerting that he was left on while Barry was taken off.

Seamus is past it too I'm afraid. He's far too immobile, was at nothing out there today and has been like that in any game I've seen this year. Shane Walsh at least had there defense under some pressure though he clearly need a good bit of hurling training but good to see him back at least.

O'Brien saw very little of it and in my opinion the experience will do him good but Austin Gleeson looked very nervous out there and think it's too soon



Our problem in defense in my opinion is no longer the full back line, it's the half back line. While Nagle has excelled with dirty ball, and has been clever in possession mostly, his lack of pace was exposed badly today. It was first shown in 2010 against Clare, and again prominent in the munster final for O'Connor's goal. Shame to say it because I always thought he was a decent hurler, but he just has zero pace and won't have anywhere to hide in the championship.

Brick has been far less assertive than normal the last couple of games and again don't think he'll make up the ground quickly enough anymore when a defender steps inside him. Moran as a result must stay back there, the only one with pace but at the same time he's quite loose and has been far from sparkling so far this season.


So when you are playing 14 v 15 with that extra space, and your half back line can be penetrated so easily by quick runners and support play (which is one thing Dublin certainly seemed to do a lot better than us) then your full back line doesn't really stand a chance.







On the trip to Portugal, people suggesting they use the money for something else seem to have forgotten that the players are funding a lot of it themselves. I think to be honest getting out of the Country for a little bit mightn't be bad for them. The perception that they're going to sip mojitos by the beach smacks of ignorance, and is probably coming from the same quarters as those that seem to think the players go to Carriganore because there's a good pub down there.

The team needs the support now more than they ever did. The fact is nobody really fully knows what happened last August, nor do we know what happened through the majority of the year. I would always have thought performances would have been an indication of player morale, and didn't think we did badly at all last year. Don't think right was done by Michael Ryan either, but I'm not convinced by this conspiracy theory that it was a scheme hatched by the 'malevolent' Derek McGrath. I am also not prepared to hold it against the players.


Final words, Waterford have given everyone here plenty of days of happiness since 1998. The lads there now train very hard, as do all, and give up a lot of what many here would not dream of parting with. I still believe they are giving it their best in training and their discipline outside of that. While I don't think last weekend or the weekend before's performances were good enough I still believe those in charge of the team are aware of that and are doing what they can to rectify that. They have the best intentions of the team, and while they may not get it right, want Waterford to succeed just as much as any of us.

We're at nothing, though, if the fans don't get behind the team. I hope that much is remembered in May

I agree with this - I was not happy with today's performance or the previous two - tactics that have produced a porous defence and a toothless attack. However we need to get behind the players and squad - the Portugal trip is surely a side issue and may even be part of the solution. Too many players are playing as individuals and confidence amongst some players seems very low ( 3 hammerings in a row will do that) warm weather training will surely increase fitness and give the squad different environment in which to work and progress.

Slobbery

sid wallace wrote: »

Have to say this Western chip on the shoulder has the real potential to drag the county down. As a follower from the City I was delighted during the noughties to see players like Big Dan, Eoin Murphy, Aidan Kearney and the Prendergasts cone through. Currently I can't wait for the Bennetts and Patrick Curran to make it. I don't get the sense that our Western Brethren feel the same way about the promising players in the East.

When fellas put on the Waterford jersey I don't care where they are from, the east/west thing must be a relic of the past, with young lads on so many development squads and all county leagues, growing up with Heros from both east and west, it's ridiculous to even consider it an issue

avonmore

sid wallace wrote: »

Have to say this Western chip on the shoulder has the real potential to drag the county down. As a follower from the City I was delighted during the noughties to see players like Big Dan, Eoin Murphy, Aidan Kearney and the Prendergasts cone through. Currently I can't wait for the Bennetts and Patrick Curran to make it. I don't get the sense that our Western Brethren feel the same way about the promising players in the East.

Anyone with the best interests of Waterford hurling at heart has no interest in that East-West rubbish.

Back in the 70s and 80s there may have been reason for concern but, thank God, for all the young lads today it isn't an issue.

From my experience they revel in each other's company and get great craic from highlighting the difference in their backgrounds and great friendships are regularly formed.

Unfortunately, they're are still dinosaurs on either side of the county who continue to perpetuate that East-West rubbish.

At this stage though, it's a non issue for the players.

nkay1985

Look today was a bad day but I'm not sure it was the system or tactics today that did it. I think if we had 15 vs. 15, we would have either won or run Dublin very close. They made great use of the extra man by having handy puck outs due to Seamus not being able to run (nothing against him, it just was never his game and is even less so now) and the diagonal ball in behind Nagle who was consistently outpaced.

We were on the back foot from the time of the sending off. I agree that I'd expect more fight from the lads and could not understand the amount of times we went for a point instead of at least having a go at goal. We don't seem to have anyone in the forwards that can break a challenge and put the opposition backs under pressure.

I'd like to see the sending off incident again because it looked like very little to me and that's what changed it.

Special mention to Pauric Mahony whose free-taking was excellent again today and he also scored a nice point or two from play. And Shane Fives who I thought hurled very well all over the field - got stuck in, won some great ball and was one of the only ones who looked like he really cared.

robopaddy

sid wallace wrote: »

Have to say this Western chip on the shoulder has the real potential to drag the county down. As a follower from the City I was delighted during the noughties to see players like Big Dan, Eoin Murphy, Aidan Kearney and the Prendergasts cone through. Currently I can't wait for the Bennetts and Patrick Curran to make it. I don't get the sense that our Western Brethren feel the same way about the promising players in the East.

Lord above just when I thought the level of manure on here couldnt get any worse