Gotham (Fox) [** Spoilers **]

Roar

thought it was a slight improvement on the first episode. but that in itself is damning with faint praise. It's all over the shop tonally, and the awful dialogue isn't helping ("did anyone ever tell you that you walk like a penguin?")

And I left out a groan when Selina said she wanted to be called "Cat". WE GET IT, SHE'S CAT WOMAN! STOP HITTING US OVER THE HEAD WITH IT!

I did quite like the Joker gag though.

Overall, meh.

Soft Falling Rain

Rocky start with naff dialogue but I thought the episode got better as it went on. Hopefully they realised early on that the dialogue is hurting the show and that they made the necessary changes. The show looks to be strong on ideas so that will keep me watching regardless. The actors playing Selina and Bruce are very good, Louge and McKenzie have their moments and if anything are the ones hurt most by the dialogue.

Giruilla

I can't believe it got good reviews.. shockingly all over the place.

It's strange.. with all the money clearly available, and such a strong cast.. it's like they purposefully tried to make the show look cheap and B-movie-ish. Is there really a need for so many face edits per scene??
Got as far as 10 mins into the second episode and realised it really was that bad.

JP Liz V1

Nicholas D’Agosto in to play Harvey Dent

pixelburp

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Nicholas D’Agosto in to play Harvey Dent

Going by the oh-so subtle use of signposting so far, I look forward to lines of dialogue commenting about how ... two faced ... Gothams attorney is. Maybe throw in some asides about gambling peoples lives on the toss of a coin...

Agent Coulson

AoS got stick last season for not having any well know Marvel characters.

It seems Gotham has gone the other way with an overload of characters.

Haven't watched yet but was looking forward to it. The ratings so far are a bit worrying though no?

CastorTroy

That_Guy

An improvement over last week anyway but not by much. Some elements are interesting and enjoyed some Penguin stuff.

It's just all over the place right now. The child snatchers were interesting and took the episode to a very quirky and comic book-esque place but it's struggling between gritty/seriousness and OTT comic book fantasy.

Dialogue is absolute crap and I hope it gets better. I mean, it can't get any worse.

I enjoyed the first episode for the pulpy nonsense that it was. Visually they've fine a really nice job of melding the Gotham of the comics with the real world and the timeless nature of the city is a nice touch, it's at once a 30s noir infused city and a modern metropolitan.

The first episode suffers from the faults of many a pilot, far too much exposition in place of character development. There was far to many characters in play and one feels that it may have been wiser to keep the rogues gallery a little smaller. But then again you'd end up with fans complaining that there wasn't enough characters in play as they did with Agents of Shield. The biggest issue with the villains is just how out of its way the show goes to ensure that you know exactly who they are, it's a little distracting and unnecessary. That said the introduction of The Penguin was well handled and the character has huge potential if played right. Cat Woman, Ivy and The Riddler were less successful and felt far too on the nose. A little wit and mystery about their identities would have been nice.

Dialogue is a real issue, thus far its been far too pulp to work. It's obvious the style the show is trying to emulate but no matter how you look at it, it just doesn't work. The hard boiled talk is at odds with the bland exposition and the time never quite sits right.

Hopefully with time the show will find its groove as there's huge potential here for an adult series. Previous adaptations have always focused on the man and as such it's a nice change of pace for one to look at the city which shaped him.

Nuts102

The chap who plays Gordon was very good in Southland. But his dialgoue just seems too forced in this like something you see from a midday soap opera.

bren2001

Finally got around to watching the first two episodes this morning. While I enjoyed both episodes they both clearly suffered from everything outlined in the thread so far. Poor dialogue and giant neon signs pointing to each character. I really fail to understand why they let us know so early on who is who. So far we have met the Penguin, the Riddler, Cat, Ivy. They have also said in many an interview

that the Joker will appear

. I understand we will see Ivy and Cat grow with Bruce and it makes sense for the Riddler and Penguin to be established gangsters by the time Bruce grows up. Before the show started I was hoping they would tease out the characters over time. I'm sure there will be a few twists and turns.

ScumLord

The problem I have with the characters is that they seem to already know who they are, I don't see any room for character development at all. Bruce doesn't act like a child at all, he's like a batman stuck in a small childs body. Same thing for catgirl, all their missing are the names and costumes, although catgirl is already halfway there.

It's like a how that was made by an overzealous fan that has too much love and respect for the franchise rather than someone trying to write a good story. It seems like all style and little substance.

Alfred Borden

Ah that was a really good episode. Thats what I had imagined it would have been like. Really good epsiode, hopefully they keep it up now.

duridian

Raf32 wrote: »

Ah that was a really good episode. Thats what I had imagined it would have been like. Really good epsiode, hopefully they keep it up now.

To help keep up the standard each episode from now on will be

tied to a large helium balloon.

Alfred Borden

duridian wrote: »

To help keep up the standard each episode from now on will be

tied to a large helium balloon.

Love it :pac:

CastorTroy

Watching this week's episode finally made me remember what the tone of the series is similar to. Darkman.

ricero

Enjoyed this weeks episode its getting better week by week.

Potential-Monke

Can't understand the negative reaction to this on here. I'm not a Batman fanboy, and i've never really got into the lore and haven't seen most/any of the animated films, but i have to say that i'm liking this. I don't find it hammy, badly acted or anything else. I think it's shaping up to be an excellent background to a well established (and often changed) franchise. It's definitely the Gordon show, but it will be interesting to see which characters get most airtime (Penguin being the obvious main villain so far, imo). I'm a big fan of the Riddler (being a huge fan of Carey, i've loved the Riddler since), so i'm really looking forward to his descent into madness.

About this episode,

what's Penguin up to coming to Gordons house?

. And, like others, can't wait to see Mrs. Smith go down. She's alright at what she does, and i'm really starting to feel that she's portraying a character on the edge. I'm not a cinema/tv critic, and i don't see the errors that those more versed in the cinematic arts, but from a laymans point of view, this is a really good show, creating an environment that both fanboys and newcomers alike can enjoy.

CastorTroy

I'm enjoying the show. I won't say I'm a Batman fanboy, as such, but I do like Batman comics and whatever of the animated movies/series I seen.

I also liked Darkman which is why I compared it to that as it comes across as being comic booky but played serious. Like Jim seems to be the only non comic book character in this crazy world.

As for your spoiler

I'd say it's probably because he's the only one he doesn't have to pretend to be someone else around

pixelburp

God, the air of 'honest, decent cop' Gordon's supposed to emit is somewhat undercut by his ludicrously plush apartment. Sure, it's not technically his, but I think it does the character a disadvantage a little to have him lamenting the corruption of Gotham in such palatial surroundings. Visually, it jars.

As to the episode itself, well it's hard to say - it's getting better but by degrees rather than any serious upswing; the dialogue remains so expository and clunky it's eye-watering at times, with Barbara and Lt. Montoya being a particularly bad scene. Equally the introduction of Maroni, who practically announces to the world "I am Don Maroni, famous mob boss!". Or the moment Bruce is watching the TV when the news reporter decides to editorialise and directly ask the viewer - Bruce - who will stand up to the badguys in the city?

That said, to be fair the episode was a little more fun than the previous two, which was probably down to the patently goofy concept of The Baloonman, and the comment above about the show echoing Sam Raimi's Darkman feel kinda apt. Gotham has a similar trashy, heightened reality about it that does lessen some of the pain of its details. This isn't Christopher Nolan's Batman, full of angst and darkness; the darkness here is a grimier squalor, and more overtly comic.

They could do with fixing Detective Bullock though, because the script's making him look like a buffoon and Donal Logue's playing him like one too.

_Kaiser_

pixelburp wrote: »

God, the air of 'honest, decent cop' Gordon's supposed to emit is somewhat undercut by his ludicrously plush apartment. Sure, it's not technically his, but I think it does the character a disadvantage a little to have him lamenting the corruption of Gotham in such palatial surroundings. Visually, it jars.

More than that, I think the whole "lone decent cop in a city gone bad" angle is starting to wear thin.

As to the episode itself, well it's hard to say - it's getting better but by degrees rather than any serious upswing; the dialogue remains so expository and clunky it's eye-watering at times, with Barbara and Lt. Montoya being a particularly bad scene. Equally the introduction of Maroni, who practically announces to the world "I am Don Maroni, famous mob boss!". Or the moment Bruce is watching the TV when the news reporter decides to editorialise and directly ask the viewer - Bruce - who will stand up to the badguys in the city?

As someone else said, young Bruce is basically Batman already in a child's body. For a show supposed to be about the rest of Gotham, he's also in it far too much. Used more sparingly I think would be much more effective.

That said, to be fair the episode was a little more fun than the previous two, which was probably down to the patently goofy concept of The Baloonman, and the comment above about the show echoing Sam Raimi's Darkman feel kinda apt. Gotham has a similar trashy, heightened reality about it that does lessen some of the pain of its details. This isn't Christopher Nolan's Batman, full of angst and darkness; the darkness here is a grimier squalor, and more overtly comic.

Agreed - it was an improvement on the first 2 but not dramatically so. It's still not "grabbing" me.

By the look of the numbers though it'll probably be renewed anyway so hopefully all the above gets addressed

CastorTroy

I'm thinking some complaints will be addressed as it goes on and as they write and shoot episodes after hearing any criticism. As it stands, there would be what, 6 or 7 episodes, at least, finished/shooting/in post production when the first episode aired? So if that was the case episode 8 could be where the show starts to address complaints.

TwoShedsJackson

Getting a bit better, still some woeful dialogue. Plus the scene near the end

where they're looking for the last balloon and then just look out of the car and see it down the alley, pretty terrible stuff

.

Mainly watching for Oswald at the moment.

dublinman1990

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I just heard from Digital Spy that Gotham will now also be shown free to air on Channel 5 in the UK.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s243/gotham/news/a588544/gotham-coming-to-channel-5-in-the-uk-batman-origins-story-gets-home.html#~oMczLQ5vkpZzHi

It will air sometime after it's release date on FOX.

Starting next Monday at 9pm on Channel 5!

Gingervitis

I love Bullock's "tell us how balloons work or I'll beat it out of you" line sounds!
Also, wind doesn't exist in Gotham apparently.

Stole this from the AV Club comments:

"A masked vigilante is taking on the criminals of Gotham!"
"Batman!?"
"No, this guy uses balloons."
"Batman uses balloons."
"It's not Batman!"

CastorTroy

Wonder where the first and third guys came down since we just saw the dirty cop

JP Liz V1

Fox has handed a full season order pick up to Gotham so 22 episodes

martingriff

I guess she does not need to ask if he killed cobblepot

pixelburp

Jesus the Cobblepot storyline is infuriating; while he's the most interesting character so far, his plot barely makes any sense, it's an incoherent mess that 30 seconds of proof reading would have shot down. Ok, even if we run with the idiocy of returning to Gotham so soon, on what planet would slinking under the wing of your former boss' rival seem like a good idea? 'Nobody looks for a dead man' he remarked in this episode; I respectfully disagree when your memorable physical appearance would be spotted by a Falcone snitch in seconds. Or, you know, that random guy you had to kill 5 minutes after arriving back.

And speaking of 30 seconds of proof reading, I don't think the writers understand what a 'paradox' is. Usually linguistics doesn't bring the pedant out in me, but Edward Nigma talking about a paradox that is quite clearly nothing of the sort just wound me up. Of all the people to get it wrong.

The mafia stereotypes are hilarious though; David Zayas' Maroni has to be seen to be believed. It's like something out of The Simpsons

I talked in this very thread about giving Gotham a chance, but these scripts are so fundamentally terrible it's hard to see where the improvement can come from.