Mayo v Donegal Sunday 4th Aug @ 4pm

corny

corny wrote: »

Such emotive language for such a trivial matter.

Eamonn Magee receives some ****e talk and responds in kind. Big deal.

Just took exception to the fact that people suggest he should have to put up with it is all. He shouldnt have to.

K4t

Was working yesterday, is there anywhere online I can watch the whole match? Doesn't seem to be on the tv3 website..Thanks.

yop

Found this funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqoltLJbyrQ

keith16

yop wrote: »

Found this funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqoltLJbyrQ

My god. What an absolute joke. He reckons Donegal should have played a qualifier game in Croker?

He also says, Mayo beat nobody worth talking about to get the the quarter finals while Donegal beat a "good qualifier" in Laois?

murrayp4

K4t wrote: »

Was working yesterday, is there anywhere online I can watch the whole match? Doesn't seem to be on the tv3 website..Thanks.

+1

overshoot

CastingCouch wrote: »

Or how about Donegals tactics were found out by superior tacticians????? And calling Monaghan limited? They could and should have beaten Tyrone who are seen as one of the countries best teams?

Donegal, had they got to another final could be seen as a great team. Now, at the minute (next year to come) they are a once off.

McGuiness might be getting the sack from Celtic after it. ;-)

CastingCouch wrote: »

Why would they be exhausted?????? They weren't exhausted v Tyrone. Tyrone didn't know how to play them.

you really dont like donegal do you?

any team that wins an AI is a great team end of, were you giving dublin the same treatment last year? they have yet to reach another AI final.

donegal were not that good against tyrone, it was a good performance but not at the level of any of the 2012 ones.

you can have all the tactics in the world, you need the players to implement them if you are going to win anything. tactics might buy you a surprise one off win but it will not march you to an AI semi, all ireland title and 2 ulster titles.

whether it was physical injuries or mental the donegal panel couldnt have replicated their 2012 "system" if they tried. too many players not at 100% and we dont have players of the same calibre on the bench to replace them. so for that reason i dont believe they were "found out", they played to their ability (much reduced by fitness & sharpness) this year which was average and no amount of tactics will hide that. Add to that everyone wants a go at the AI champs, especially the team you bet in the final & its going to be a rough ride.

CastingCouch wrote: »

I think Mayo will make a final. The hunger is there. They're the last team yet to win it of the big guns.

CastingCouch wrote: »

Stop making excuses like so many others, "looked tired/not as hungry". Donegals tactics were no use this year.

is that not double standards? hunger is a powerful motivation

Kristopherus

yop wrote: »

Found this funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqoltLJbyrQ

Wonder what the bould Logie is thinking now:D.

yop

Kristopherus wrote: »

Wonder what the bould Logie is thinking now:D.

Reading him on twitter there now, getting a lot of abuse!

keith16

overshoot wrote: »

you really dont like donegal do you?

any team that wins an AI is a great team end of, were you giving dublin the same treatment last year? they have yet to reach another AI final.

Dublin weren't eviscerated in the same in anywhere near the same manner as Donegal were yesterday.

They lost a semi-final by 3 points. They scored 16 points themselves which is a decent return in any game.

It was mentioned earlier but I just don't buy this, "we did't have the hunger / we weren't the same team stuff".

Donegal were humiliated and as a fan I would be asking some serious questions about why exhaustion is a factor at the beginning of August.

homerjay2005

keith16 wrote: »

Donegal were humiliated and as a fan I would be asking some serious questions about why exhaustion is a factor at the beginning of August.

lets not forget they were relegated from division 1, were poor against Down and only scored 7 points against Monaghan.

yesterday was coming. Donegal went from nobodys to All ireland champions in 18 months, thats not normal. hunger played a huge part in it.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

homerjay2005 wrote: »

lets not forget they were relegated from division 1, were poor against Down and only scored 7 points against Monaghan.

yesterday was coming. Donegal went from nobodys to All ireland champions in 18 months, thats not normal. hunger played a huge part in it.

One of the biggest misconceptions of the past few years. The McGees, Murphy, Lacey, McGlynn, Cassidy & McFadden were all highly rated before the arrival of McGuiness, not to mention a few others. They won the league in 2007 sure, hardly came from no where.

davegrohl48

Karl Lacey had a hip operation His legs looked like he'd barely done much weights n at one stage Carolan went past him at a rate of knots to win a ball back on the ground.
McGee had knee surgery, was second to every ball
Thats the pace gone out o two o their big players
They had a 3 game series with third game against a team full o fast players in most positions
To have speed you need to be injury free and rested With no bench Donegal were doomed

keith16

THFC wrote: »

One of the biggest misconceptions of the past few years. The McGees, Murphy, Lacey, McGlynn, Cassidy & McFadden were all highly rated before the arrival of McGuiness, not to mention a few others. They won the league in 2007 sure, hardly came from no where.

It certainly appears that they are going from champs to nobodies. That's not normal either.

Which is why I would give some credence to the fact they have been found out. A long long way back for Donegal from here.

ColeTrain

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

I don't understand why, as a Mayo fan, you would want to make the victory into more than it was.

It was a complete performance that exposed every weakness of a physically and mentally exhuasted team struggling with injuries and fatigue.

Surely that's how a realistic and sensible Mayo fan would want to measure it? It's clear that a lot of fans were bent on revenge, but Mayo did not beat the Donegal of last year and for their own sake, should acknowledge that fact.

Mayo were missing Davie Clarke plus had many question marks over the fitness of key players. No need to paint out that we haven't been affected by injury

Also donegal were tested more than us. Mayo played London in the connacht final. very hard to learn lessons playing them. Adding Donegal to the teams that haven't tested us is impressive

Smartly Dressed

ColeTrain wrote: »

Mayo were missing Davie Clarke plus had many question marks over the fitness of key players. No need to paint out that we haven't been affected by injury

Also donegal were tested more than us. Mayo played London in the connacht final. very hard to learn lessons playing them. Adding Donegal to the teams that haven't tested us is impressive

The victory was extremely impressive and I can tell you it was excruciating to watch. However, that Donegal side was not the same team from last season.

I've said before that I expect Mayo to win the all-ireland this year, but they will have to repeat that performance against much better sides.

I don't want to detract from Mayo's performance; it was near enough a comprehensive masterclass - all I'm saying is that they should be looking forward to much bigger challenges because Donegal did not really have anything to offer.

Stoner

the game was played when Donegal were muck and Mayo were fantastic.

I doubt we'll see Donegal that bad again, or Mayo that good.

McGuinness gave a lesson to everyone in mind games last year, but was thought one this year. I see hes back in the papers, saying that he never said Donegal were afraid of physicality, I never heard him say it either or anyone claim that he did, he said his words were twisted.
I don't think they were, he was trying to protect his players and or get an advantage with the referee, however it just served to make his players look weak and needing protection he kind of brought that to the table himself. He'd also be stuck against the likes of Mayo, when he plays Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Cork, they have all the neutral support. But against Mayo it was 31 vs 1.

Roger_007

keith16 wrote: »

It certainly appears that they are going from champs to nobodies. That's not normal either.

Which is why I would give some credence to the fact they have been found out. A long long way back for Donegal from here.

Donegal's problem is that they rely on a system which involves making sure that the other team are limited to very few scores. They then rely on their own quick counter-attacks to get their own scores. Unfortunately the system breaks down when the other team gets a substantial lead early on as Mayo did. There is no point in playing deep defence when the other team is 10 points ahead. There was no plan B.
In that sense, yes, Donegal were found out, or rather their system has been found out.

homerjay2005

THFC wrote: »

One of the biggest misconceptions of the past few years. The McGees, Murphy, Lacey, McGlynn, Cassidy & McFadden were all highly rated before the arrival of McGuiness, not to mention a few others. They won the league in 2007 sure, hardly came from no where.

beaten in qualifier second round in 08, beaten by 14 points in 09, knocked out in first round of qualifiers in 2010. that was the form of absolute abysmal proportions so my point stands.

ColeTrain

Smartly Dressed wrote: »

The victory was extremely impressive and I can tell you it was excruciating to watch. However, that Donegal side was not the same team from last season.

I've said before that I expect Mayo to win the all-ireland this year, but they will have to repeat that performance against much better sides.

I don't want to detract from Mayo's performance; it was near enough a comprehensive masterclass - all I'm saying is that they should be looking forward to much bigger challenges because Donegal did not really have anything to offer.

I think the lads just put in a huge game yesterday, it shows what they're capable of.

Of course we will struggle to replicate it when we face Tyrone. If we had beaten Tyrone yesterday with Donegal waiting for us in the semis then I'd fully agree but to put away the champions in that style was something you don't see too often. Yesterday was a show of intent, hopefully we can keep it going.

corny

Roger_007 wrote: »

Donegal's problem is that they rely on a system which involves making sure that the other team are limited to very few scores. They then rely on their own quick counter-attacks to get their own scores. Unfortunately the system breaks down when the other team gets a substantial lead early on as Mayo did. There is no point in playing deep defence when the other team is 10 points ahead. There was no plan B.
In that sense, yes, Donegal were found out, or rather their system has been found out.

So the solution to cracking Donegal is just score lots of points, preferably early on? Pity no one figured that out last year.

Donegal won last year just like Dublin the year previous not because of an ingenious plan but because they were the hungriest side who worked the hardest. They had their system on Sunday but the work rate was missing. If/when they get the appetite back i assure you they'll become a tough nut to crack again.

People really give too much credit to tactics and systems and not enough credit to good honest hard graft imo.

keith16

corny wrote: »

People really give too much credit to tactics and systems and not enough credit to good honest hard graft imo.

And I would argue the opposite. Hard work and a desire to succeed are traits of a huge number of teams and players. But there are a lot of average teams and players out there.

Padkir

keith16 wrote: »

And I would argue the opposite. Hard work and a desire to succeed are traits of a huge number of teams and players. But there are a lot of average teams and players out there.

But the difference is the quality of the players.

You can't just have it as a shoot out between hard graft and tactical systems. You'll win nothing without all three.

aveytare

corny wrote: »

So the solution to cracking Donegal is just score lots of points, preferably early on? Pity no one figured that out last year.

Donegal won last year just like Dublin the year previous not because of an ingenious plan but because they were the hungriest side who worked the hardest. They had their system on Sunday but the work rate was missing. If/when they get the appetite back i assure you they'll become a tough nut to crack again.

People really give too much credit to tactics and systems and not enough credit to good honest hard graft imo.

Yeah the obvious reason teams weren't getting early leads was because of how good Donegal were last year.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

homerjay2005 wrote: »

beaten in qualifier second round in 08, beaten by 14 points in 09, knocked out in first round of qualifiers in 2010. that was the form of absolute abysmal proportions so my point stands.

It most certainly doesn't. They always had the talent, it's not like McGuiness turned the like of New York or London into title winning teams, he simply turned around their fortunes. He still did a marvellous job, no one can deny that, but to call Donegal "nobodys" before he arrived is just plain ignorance.

corny

keith16 wrote: »

And I would argue the opposite. Hard work and a desire to succeed are traits of a huge number of teams and players. But there are a lot of average teams and players out there.

The difference between Donegal beating Mayo last year and losing by 16 points this year was not in a tactical system or a new method. One team enjoyed their success and the other worked harder to improve. Tactically nothing changed.

For the rest? As Padkir said their are other limitations to consider.

davegrohl48

Both teams had a pretty wide divergence in fitness and form in the last 12 months Last year AOS was not fully fit This year he was Thats just one player but he was probably responsible for three points worth of the margin

CastingCouch

keith16 wrote: »

Dublin weren't eviscerated in the same in anywhere near the same manner as Donegal were yesterday.

They lost a semi-final by 3 points. They scored 16 points themselves which is a decent return in any game.

It was mentioned earlier but I just don't buy this, "we did't have the hunger / we weren't the same team stuff".

Donegal were humiliated and as a fan I would be asking some serious questions about why exhaustion is a factor at the beginning of August.

Or how they got relegated in the league.

CastingCouch

corny wrote: »

So the solution to cracking Donegal is just score lots of points, preferably early on? Pity no one figured that out last year.

Donegal won last year just like Dublin the year previous not because of an ingenious plan but because they were the hungriest side who worked the hardest. They had their system on Sunday but the work rate was missing. If/when they get the appetite back i assure you they'll become a tough nut to crack again.

People really give too much credit to tactics and systems and not enough credit to good honest hard graft imo.

When you're Champions everyone wants to beat you. More analysis is done than before. Donegal were found out. Murphy and McFadden did not get ball.

Western Pomise

Don't want to annoy Donegal fans but its a serious indictment of the limitations of Donegal Panel that London gave Mayo a harder game this year,fair play to Donegal for Success last yr but for a co with a big population they had no quality new lads on the bench this year.

DoctaDee

corny wrote: »

So the solution to cracking Donegal is just score lots of points, preferably early on? Pity no one figured that out last year.

Donegal won last year just like Dublin the year previous not because of an ingenious plan but because they were the hungriest side who worked the hardest. They had their system on Sunday but the work rate was missing. If/when they get the appetite back i assure you they'll become a tough nut to crack again.

People really give too much credit to tactics and systems and not enough credit to good honest hard graft imo.

Yep agree 100% with ya here. I dunno whether it's an indictment of the game now - but pure football seems to be a thing of the past. Workrate and hunger would seem to underpin all the recent winners probably going back to 2007, when Kerry were probably the last team to win with a team of great players, supplemented with the return of Tadgh Kennelly.

The Donegal "system" was introduced by McGuinness not primarily to win an AI but to prevent the sorry beatings they'd been taking in the previous years, coupled with the loss to Antrim. I don't think Jim Mc could honestly believe that they'd win an AI in their 2nd year - but in fairness their application and workrate was astounding last year and they rightfully took the spoils. A timewarp of sorts opened up last Sunday, when those same players without the previous hunger and work ethic were laid bare by a very good Mayo team - it was a throwback to all that Jim Mc has strived to eradicate from Donegals chequered history. For what it's worth, personally speaking Lacey & Murphy are the only great footballers on that team