Being approached in the pub when you don't want to be

Malari

Yeah, I agree Das Kitty, sometimes you just want to vent a bit and have other people agree with you. Not every problem needs to be fixed, sometimes it just needs to be acknowledged.

I have experienced this myself a few times, but not really lately. I don't accept that you should just go somewhere else if you are being bugged, but it's not the approach that's the issue (as has been reiterated numerous times) it's the guys who just won't leave you alone when asked.

One incident stood out when I was in a club with friends and a guy would not take no for an answer. I'd told him I had a boyfriend, I was told I was lying. In fact the proof that I was lying was that I was actually in the club. If I had a real boyfriend he wouldn't "let me out on my own" or else if he did, he was obviously an idiot and I needed someone else. :rolleyes:

cantdecide

Das Kitty wrote: »

Maybe it's to share experiences, like the OP clearly stated.

But apparently that's not allowed, so a bunch of boardsie men trot in and dole out the advice on what women should do differently.

So what if we just want to share our experiences with each other? It's cathartic to know that you're not the only one in situations like this.

Fair enough. However, the last thing I'll say is you can't change the facts. You can only change your perception. Call me unsympathetic if you like but I always prefer lighting the penny candle over cursing the dark. Moaning gets you nowhere even if you believe it cathartic- it's just more stress IME.

listermint

cantdecide wrote: »

Fair enough. However, you can't change the facts. You can only change your perception. Call me unsympathetic if you like but I always prefer lighting the penny candle over cursing the dark.

This in a nut shell, and if that was the intention of the OP then no problem. But it looked like they were looking for solutions. I gave some fairly valid ones, only to be shot down by the usual 'men trotting around giving advice where its not needed'

Its would be actually amusing did it not come across so venomous against fairly impartial advice.

SpaceTime

Women do it too!

I'm in a long-term and very serious relationship and I am not on the look out for any new girlfriends.

I was on an intercity train and picked a coach with a bit of space, plugged in my laptop and was planning to listen to some music and get through a load of paperwork I needed to do and just generally chill out in my own space and watch the countryside going by.

Three 30-something women got into the coach and started giggling away from about 3 seats up.

Next thing, they'd sat in my 4-seat section (there were about 9 other empty 4-seat sections in the coach) and were being really flirty and I don't really mean in a good way. It was actually pretty unpleasant and they weren't exactly great company either and didn't seem to take a hint.

I tried just ignoring them first - didn't work. Kept trying to get my attention and one even lifted one of my headphones off.

I kept dropping my partner's name into the conversation to try and give them a hint I wasn't available. Then I made up that I had kids and that didn't even stop them.

Women do exactly the same in bars too. I have noticed they tend to 'hunt in packs.'

You can be out definitely not 'on the pull' and suddenly you're the target of a whole load of bad chat up lines and attempts to flirt usually by a bunch of really drunk types.

Or, they keep interrupting your conversation with someone or try to insert themselves into the middle of it.

Also, I find there are things that women can get way with that guys would be arrested / thrown out of the bar for. Like, I've had my ass slapped, been grabbed, felt up, touched (very inappropriately) and all of that.

I'm not saying it's something that shocks/offends or upsets me, but I just think it's kind of part of how the whole human experience is sometimes and you just kind of have to be able to tell them to 'clear off' sometimes or you'd get nothing done.

....

The only thing that does annoy me though is when someone turns nasty when you brush them off.

I have been shouted abuse at and called all sorts of things because I ignored a flirting attempt in a bar.

....


Anyway, don't really want to turn this into a battle of the sexes, I just think there are some people of both genders who can't get the hint when someone's not interested.

ash23

I am single and I love when guys approach me. I am chatty and I like to meet new people. If I'm interested in them in "that" way, then even better.
I can read social cues and I work in customer service so I'm pretty good at knowing how to handle and steer a conversation. If I don't want to talk I can let them know politely.

Generally speaking I can have a guy approach me and let him know whether I am or am not interested without it being too much of an ordeal for either of us.

But every now and again you get the guy who just will not get the message, no matter how blunt you are.
For example I was out a couple of weekends ago and I was chatted up by two guys when I went up to the bar. The first one was polite and we had a quick chat. I then said I had to go back to my friends and told him to enjoy his night. End of. That's the right way to go about it. Had I been interested, I would have wandered back over to him at some stage. I did consider it but he had started chatting up someone else. My own fault for being indecisive. Lesson learned

Second guy - oh my god! What a perfect example of what is being discussed. He came over to me at the bar. I thought he was cute but he was fairly drunk and as I talked to him I decided I wasn't interested. Chatted for a few minutes and said I was going back to my friends.
Went over to the table with the drinks and he followed me. My friends realised I was being bothered and said we'd go dancing. He followed and was dancing behind me so I got off the dance floor and stood where I could see my friends. He came up behind me and grabbed my hand trying to twirl me. I said "no thanks I dont' want to dance. i'm not interested". He continued to pull out of me, trying to drag me to the dancefloor.
My friends came back and we decided to leave. It was pretty much the end of the night. He cornered me again as I was leaving and the followed us out of the club. My friends went a bit down the road and stood waiting for me while I (not as polite this time) told the guy I had zero interest and I was just going home and he should too. He then proceeded to follow me down the road until my friends told him to f*ck off or they'd go into the garda station. It went from annoyance to actually being quite intimidating.


Moral of the story is that when I walked away from the conversation, that was his cue to cut his losses. Anything after that, without me approaching him, is going too far and getting annoying.

I appreciate that it's hard for guys to approach a woman and I have seen where girls have laughed at a man who approached them and thought how horrible they were. So I get that a guy approaching a girl is putting himself out there and opening himself up to that kind of b!tchiness.

tylercheribini

In Hogans on Georges St a few years(either Friday or Saturday night, cant remember) I attempted to make conversation with two ladies and no sooner had I opened my mouth when one of them shoved her ring finger into my forehead whilst proudly exclaming "I'm married". Also asked a woman what time it was in my hometown years back to be immediately told "I have a boyfriend." This was actually a genuine request for time as my phone battery had died and had booked a taxi earlier on to collect me haha.

Das Kitty

cantdecide wrote: »

Fair enough. However, the last thing I'll say is you can't change the facts. You can only change your perception. Call me unsympathetic if you like but I always prefer lighting the penny candle over cursing the dark. Moaning gets you nowhere even if you believe it cathartic- it's just more stress IME.

listermint wrote: »

This in a nut shell, and if that was the intention of the OP then no problem. But it looked like they were looking for solutions. I gave some fairly valid ones, only to be shot down by the usual 'men trotting around giving advice where its not needed'

Its would be actually amusing did it not come across so venomous against fairly impartial advice.

:pac:

It's like when you read a book, and there's a book inside the book that's a metaphor of the main story.

Gas.

Handsome Bob

I was recently at a stag party weekend; I'll never question what women have to put up with on nights out again. :pac:

IvyTheTerrible

listermint wrote: »

This in a nut shell, and if that was the intention of the OP then no problem. But it looked like they were looking for solutions. I gave some fairly valid ones, only to be shot down by the usual 'men trotting around giving advice where its not needed'

Its would be actually amusing did it not come across so venomous against fairly impartial advice.

My understanding of the OP was that she wanted to hear other peoples ideas of how to get rid of someone who couldn't take the hint, and not how to avoid the problam.

SpaceTime wrote: »

W

I was on an intercity train and picked a coach with a bit of space, plugged in my laptop and was planning to listen to some music and get through a load of paperwork I needed to do and just generally chill out in my own space and watch the countryside going by.

Three 30-something women got into the coach and started giggling away from about 3 seats up.

Next thing, they'd sat in my 4-seat section (there were about 9 other empty 4-seat sections in the coach) and were being really flirty and I don't really mean in a good way. It was actually pretty unpleasant and they weren't exactly great company either and didn't seem to take a hint.

You should change your mode of transport if there are people that hassle you on trains. :P

old hippy

I've had friends who are black/asian tell me of some horrible scenarios. I don't know what it's like currently but quite often they would be pestered in pubs, being seen as "exotic", some being hit upon, some being hassled for sex and/or drugs etc. This was back in the 90s and I hope things have changed

listermint

Das Kitty wrote: »

:pac:

It's like when you read a book, and there's a book inside the book that's a metaphor of the main story.

Gas.

LOLS ....




Well OP, keep going to the bars you like fair enough. But expect the same clientele to keep pestering you. Because they like the same hip bars you do.
Tis the way of the world.

Im out.

jaffacakesyum

As a woman who has approached both men and women (the latter moreso, which is relevent to this point), I have to say it is extremely obvious before the words even come out of her mouth, if a woman is interested in having a conversation with me or not.

If she avoids eye contact with you and turns away to talk to her friend, if she has closed body language, turns her back to you, doesn't return conversation very well or just has one-word answers to your questions, if she looks uncomfortable or uninterested, then she's not interested.

I've approached many women where they haven't been interested so once I get the hint I say "Lovely chatting to you ladies, I'll leave you to enjoy your drinks. See ya" to which they usually perk up, smile and say "Oh thanks, bye!" and then you know you've done the right thing.

Why do so many men let it even get to the stage where the woman has to tell you to go away? It's not that difficult to read the signs. I don't buy the whole "men are idiots, we don't understand body language" thing. I think these men know very well how it's going. I think these men sense when it's not going well but they still keep trying, or even "up their game" moreso if it's not going well, which just makes them come across even more desperate.

That said, even though I've never had to be told to go away, if for some reason the odd time you don't get the obvious hints, than ok. It's not the end of the world. But if the women clearly tells you she's not interested, than for fúck sake leave her alone. Really don't get the mentality of some men that they have the right to pester them like that.

Can you imagine the uproar if a gay man treated a straight man like that? Violence would probably ensue! And in fact I've seen straight men get incredibly píssed off when a man approaches them. Yet if a woman is in anyway at the end of her tether with this sort of carry on and has to bluntly tell a guy to leave her alone she's instantly a "stuck up Irish bitch"

iwantmydinner

SpaceTime wrote: »

Women do it too!

Oh well in that case, we've nothing to complain about!

OldNotWIse

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Can you imagine the uproar if a gay man treated a straight man like that? Violence would probably ensue! And in fact I've seen straight men get incredibly píssed off when a man approaches them. Yet if a woman is in anyway at the end of her tether with this sort of carry on and has to bluntly tell a guy to leave her alone she's instantly a "stuck up Irish bitch"

This. If I tell a guy I'm not interested because I am gay, it's often like a red rag to a bull. Ten times worse if OH is there! What, do they think we're gonna say, "you know what love, we've been gay women now for a long time, perhaps its time to experiment just to be really sure we are gay. I know we've been like this for years but you never know - this here guy might be able to show us a good time and we'll never look back"?

ffs

Malari

OldNotWIse wrote: »

This. If I tell a guy I'm not interested because I am gay, it's often like a red rag to a bull. Ten times worse if OH is there! What, do they think we're gonna say, "you know what love, we've been gay women now for a long time, perhaps its time to experiment just to be really sure we are gay. I know we've been like this for years but you never know - this here guy might be able to show us a good time and we'll never look back"?

ffs

Yes, it's the same mentality as the people who balk when you tell them you don't want children. "you're wrong, you just don't know it yet!" :rolleyes:

OldNotWIse

Malari wrote: »

Yes, it's the same mentality as the people who balk when you tell them you don't want children. "you're wrong, you just don't know it yet!" :rolleyes:

You'll be right when you have kids though

(about everything)

(well..on boards anyway)

iwantmydinner

OldNotWIse wrote: »

This. If I tell a guy I'm not interested because I am gay, it's often like a red rag to a bull. Ten times worse if OH is there! What, do they think we're gonna say, "you know what love, we've been gay women now for a long time, perhaps its time to experiment just to be really sure we are gay. I know we've been like this for years but you never know - this here guy might be able to show us a good time and we'll never look back"?

ffs

God, that sounds incredibly irritating. Some people display such ignorance, it's jaw-dropping.

OldNotWIse

iwantmydinner wrote: »

God, that sounds incredibly irritating. Some people display such ignorance, it's jaw-dropping.

Yup. Actually I dont mind being approached (like most women I guess, who are not up their own backsides) but its the not taking no for an answer that's annoying

Imagine a straight woman hassling two gay men lol

iwantmydinner

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yup. Actually I dont mind being approached (like most women I guess, who are not up their own backsides) but its the not taking no for an answer that's annoying

Imagine a straight woman hassling two gay men lol

I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of people really don't mind an initial approach. (Of course, for various reasons - social anxiety, traumatic past experiences, or plain rudeness! - there'll always be people who'll react badly to even a well-mannered and well-intentioned approach - but that's a different topic!)

kylith

SpaceTime wrote: »

Women do it too!

I'm in a long-term and very serious relationship and I am not on the look out for any new girlfriends.

I was on an intercity train and picked a coach with a bit of space, plugged in my laptop and was planning to listen to some music and get through a load of paperwork I needed to do and just generally chill out in my own space and watch the countryside going by.

Three 30-something women got into the coach and started giggling away from about 3 seats up.

Next thing, they'd sat in my 4-seat section (there were about 9 other empty 4-seat sections in the coach) and were being really flirty and I don't really mean in a good way. It was actually pretty unpleasant and they weren't exactly great company either and didn't seem to take a hint.

I tried just ignoring them first - didn't work. Kept trying to get my attention and one even lifted one of my headphones off.

I kept dropping my partner's name into the conversation to try and give them a hint I wasn't available. Then I made up that I had kids and that didn't even stop them.

Women do exactly the same in bars too. I have noticed they tend to 'hunt in packs.'

You can be out definitely not 'on the pull' and suddenly you're the target of a whole load of bad chat up lines and attempts to flirt usually by a bunch of really drunk types.

Or, they keep interrupting your conversation with someone or try to insert themselves into the middle of it.

Also, I find there are things that women can get way with that guys would be arrested / thrown out of the bar for. Like, I've had my ass slapped, been grabbed, felt up, touched (very inappropriately) and all of that.

I'm not saying it's something that shocks/offends or upsets me, but I just think it's kind of part of how the whole human experience is sometimes and you just kind of have to be able to tell them to 'clear off' sometimes or you'd get nothing done.

....

The only thing that does annoy me though is when someone turns nasty when you brush them off.

I have been shouted abuse at and called all sorts of things because I ignored a flirting attempt in a bar.

....


Anyway, don't really want to turn this into a battle of the sexes, I just think there are some people of both genders who can't get the hint when someone's not interested.

Sadly there are women like that too. I'm sorry you were bothered; annoying, isn't it?

tylercheribini wrote: »

In Hogans on Georges St a few years(either Friday or Saturday night, cant remember) I attempted to make conversation with two ladies and no sooner had I opened my mouth when one of them shoved her ring finger into my forehead whilst proudly exclaming "I'm married". Also asked a woman what time it was in my hometown years back to be immediately told "I have a boyfriend." This was actually a genuine request for time as my phone battery had died and had booked a taxi earlier on to collect me haha.

That'd be a woman whose had a request for the time used as an opening line from a guy who wouldn't leave her alone, and is attempting to get rid of a potential pest before it's too late. It's not that those women were inherently rude, it's that they've experienced what we've been talking about so much that they have started to bypass the 'please go away' body language and go straight for the blunt 'not interested'.

Shane732

B0jangles wrote: »

Why did you highlight the first part of the sentence and not the second?

The sentence ends after the word welcome. I even highlighted the fullstop.

listermint

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Yet if a woman is in anyway at the end of her tether with this sort of carry on and has to bluntly tell a guy to leave her alone she's instantly a "stuck up Irish bitch"

Again this applies to the original 'dicks' in the OPs post. 'Dicks are dicks' Youve managed to generalise all men as thinking shes a how you put it 'stuck up irish bitch' when she says shes not interested.

When the fact is the average irish guy would have either got the message prior to starting conversation or mid conversation. So he wouldnt ever have got to the retort stage.

Point being is please dont put the dicks in with the rest of us.

And those that thanked you should have more sense to realise the average guy doesnt think like that. And treats others properly.

SpaceTime

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Oh well in that case, we've nothing to complain about!

That wasn't my point!
I think it's just a general issue that hits both genders.

B0jangles

Shane732 wrote: »

The sentence ends after the word welcome. I even highlighted the fullstop.

My bad - for "sentence" read "statement".

From this statement

In my case, my friend is single and more than happy to be approached,as long as the guy leaves when he's no longer welcome.It's not the approach, it's the refusing to leave. We have no problem chatting away to strangers whether we're interested in them or not, hence why we're polite to begin with.

You singled out the following part:

as long as the guy leaves when he's no longer welcome.

Why?

Is it because the rest of the statement made it abundantly clear that the poster onlyhas a problem with guys who refuse to go away when asked politely to?

iwantmydinner

listermint wrote: »

Again this applies to the original 'dicks' in the OPs post. 'Dicks are dicks' Youve managed to generalise all men as thinking shes a how you put it 'stuck up irish bitch' when she says shes not interested.

When the fact is the average irish guy would have either got the message prior to starting conversation or mid conversation. So he wouldnt ever have got to the retort stage.

Point being is please dont put the dicks in with the rest of us.

And those that thanked you should have more sense to realise the average guy doesnt think like that. And treats others properly.

Several posters have made it very clear that this applies to a small minority of men.

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

Also, I find there are things that women can get way with that guys would be arrested / thrown out of the bar for. Like, I've had my ass slapped, been grabbed, felt up, touched (very inappropriately) and all of that.

All the highlighted above have happened to me. And every time the assaulter has gotten away with it.

Shane732

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Why would her interaction with strangers in public places NOT be on her terms??

As for your last sentence - get a grip on yourself, man. Her post suggested nothing of the sort.

How has this thread gone from one woman asking others in tLL about their experiences of persistent and at times aggressive approaches by men in pubs, to this??

Well the OP's post says that they'll talk to other people when they are willing to. So are all men supposed to stand at one side of the room waiting for various women to decide that they are ready to grace the man with her presence for a few minutes. You say why would her interaction with strangers in public place NOT be on her terms? There are two strangers in that scenario. It would be a very difficult world if everyone went around thinking "well I'm only going to talk to other people on my terms". There is give and take in every scenario. In any event, the OP said they were happy for men to approach them as her friend is single, so your point is rather moot. Get a grip of yourself, woman.

A public house, is just that. It's a social setting. People are going to talk to each other in a pub. The fact of the matter is that certain settings are more conducive to different forms of socialising. If I wanted to have a chat with a friend for a couple of hours I wouldn't go to a nightclub to have it. Would I be correct to start giving out about people dancing in a nightclub and interfering with my chat? A pub has been a place where men and women have approached each other since year dot. It's not going to change.

I totally accept that some men can be very persistent and it's annoying. However, if the woman isn't interested then why not just tell the guy straightaway as opposed to being seen to be polite (which IMO you're actually not being) for 5 mins and then telling them to f*uck off.

The reason the thread has gone to this is that your opinions have been challenged. There is give and take in every scenario. It would be very easy for everyone to just comment and say oh yes men are awful, such predators. We'd all hold hands (in a non predatory manner, of course) and sing kumbaya.

YFlyer

SpaceTime wrote: »

Women do it too!

I'm in a long-term and very serious relationship and I am not on the look out for any new girlfriends.

I was on an intercity train and picked a coach with a bit of space, plugged in my laptop and was planning to listen to some music and get through a load of paperwork I needed to do and just generally chill out in my own space and watch the countryside going by.

Three 30-something women got into the coach and started giggling away from about 3 seats up.

Next thing, they'd sat in my 4-seat section (there were about 9 other empty 4-seat sections in the coach) and were being really flirty and I don't really mean in a good way. It was actually pretty unpleasant and they weren't exactly great company either and didn't seem to take a hint.

I tried just ignoring them first - didn't work. Kept trying to get my attention and one even lifted one of my headphones off.

I kept dropping my partner's name into the conversation to try and give them a hint I wasn't available. Then I made up that I had kids and that didn't even stop them.

Women do exactly the same in bars too. I have noticed they tend to 'hunt in packs.'

You can be out definitely not 'on the pull' and suddenly you're the target of a whole load of bad chat up lines and attempts to flirt usually by a bunch of really drunk types.

Or, they keep interrupting your conversation with someone or try to insert themselves into the middle of it.

Also, I find there are things that women can get way with that guys would be arrested / thrown out of the bar for. Like, I've had my ass slapped, been grabbed, felt up, touched (very inappropriately) and all of that.

I'm not saying it's something that shocks/offends or upsets me, but I just think it's kind of part of how the whole human experience is sometimes and you just kind of have to be able to tell them to 'clear off' sometimes or you'd get nothing done.

....

The only thing that does annoy me though is when someone turns nasty when you brush them off.

I have been shouted abuse at and called all sorts of things because I ignored a flirting attempt in a bar.

....


Anyway, don't really want to turn this into a battle of the sexes, I just think there are some people of both genders who can't get the hint when someone's not interested.

You should have told them you were single.

iwantmydinner

Shane732 wrote: »

Well the OP's post says that they'll talk to other people when they are willing to. So are all men supposed to stand at one side of the room waiting for various women to decide that they are ready to grace the man with her presence for a few minutes. You say why would her interaction with strangers in public place NOT be on her terms? There are two strangers in that scenario. It would be a very difficult world if everyone went around thinking "well I'm only going to talk to other people on my terms". There is give and take in every scenario. In any event, the OP said they were happy for men to approach them as her friend is single, so your point is rather moot. Get a grip of yourself, woman.

A public house, is just that. It's a social setting. People are going to talk to each other in a pub. The fact of the matter is that certain settings are more conducive to different forms of socialising. If I wanted to have a chat with a friend for a couple of hours I wouldn't go to a nightclub to have it. Would I be correct to start giving out about people dancing in a nightclub and interfering with my chat? A pub has been a place where men and women have approached each other since year dot. It's not going to change.

I totally accept that some men can be very persistent and it's annoying. However, if the woman isn't interested then why not just tell the guy straightaway as opposed to being seen to be polite (which IMO you're actually not being) for 5 mins and then telling them to f*uck off.

The reason the thread has gone to this is that your opinions have been challenged. There is give and take in every scenario. It would be very easy for everyone to just comment and say oh yes men are awful, such predators. We'd all hold hands (in a non predatory manner, of course) and sing kumbaya.

To quote Das Kitty:

It's like when you read a book, and there's a book inside the book that's a metaphor of the main story.

Gas.

Shane732

iwantmydinner wrote: »

To quote Das Kitty:

It would be a pretty poor metaphor.