Being approached in the pub when you don't want to be

Faith

Does anyone else get annoyed when you're out with a female friend, or maybe a small group of women, and you get regularly approached and interrupted by men who seem to think you're only in a bar to be hit on? There seems to be this perception amongst some men that women in bars are only there to meet men, and couldn't possibly just want to be left alone. Now, I have no problem in busy bars with people of all genders joining groups and having a laugh, but I'm talking more about quiet bars midweek, or situations where you're obviously engrossed in conversation with someone and you're targeted by a man and rudely interrupted who won't take the hint and leave.

I was out with my best friend last night. We live in different countries so only catch up once every few months, and these nights are important to us. Every single time in recent memory that it's just been the two of us out, once it passes midnight or so, we start getting almost harassed by men who take a shine to one of us and who will not leave us alone.

Last night, we were in a late bar. We were sitting on a long bench, with just enough space between us and the next group. A guy came over, squeezed past loads of people and sat next to my friend. We were chatting and he just leaned across us and introduced himself. We were polite and friendly and chatted for a few minutes before resuming our conversation, but he wouldn't take the hint. After 10 minutes, my friend had to make up a story about me being heart broken and he needed to go because I was desperately upset. He got up, changed his mind, and sat down again. We had to say "Look, please, we want to be on our own" several times before he'd leave. The same thing happened half an hour later, except this time the guy was much, much older than us and really creepy, and when we weren't paying attention to him to begin with, he asked for a lighter and then kept it hostage so we'd talk to him. In the end, a big burly guy standing nearby saw that we couldn't get rid of him and came over to our table to basically act as a bouncer. Even with his help, we just ended up leaving the pub because it wasn't enjoyable any more.

I constantly see on boards, "Oh, Irish women are such bitches, you try and talk to them in the pub and they treat you like a bad smell and are rude. They're so stuck up". But in my experience, being friendly to a certain type of guy is almost dangerous because you can tell that they'll never ever go away voluntarily. I've had guys get really aggressive because I chatted away to them but wasn't interested in them. Last night, I just wanted to shout "Would you ever FÚCK OFF", but A) I was afraid they'd get aggressive, and I felt trapped because reacting negatively only fuels the fire that Irish women are awful bitches.

Have you experienced this in pubs, or even other places? How do you react? Do you engage guys who try to muscle in, do you ignore them, and what do you do when they outstay their welcome?

(Usual disclaimers apply before anyone gets upset: This does not apply to all men, just a small subset, and even then it's just the ones who won't take a hint and leave. I know there's times when an approach is welcome, etc etc etc).

iwantmydinner

I've experienced very similar scenarios to what you've described. It can really ruin an evening. As you describe, also mostly in a pub on a quiet evening, midweek for example, when just trying to have a conversation with a female friend.

Usual response is to be friendly for a little while, then try to extricate ourselves and go back to our private conversation - sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. If they're being really persistent - either go for a smoke and stay away from them, or move pubs.

There's usually a specific type involved. The vast majority of other pub-goers can see a private conversation happening, and let well enough alone. But that very small minority who feel as if we owe them a conversation or reciprocated interest is incredibly frustrating.

biko

A female friend told me about this time when she was at a table with 5 female friends.
A guy walks up "so are you here alone?"

So apparently 6 girls are "alone" lol

Das Kitty

I think it's fine being approached so long as the guy in question will accept that you're not interested and move on.

Too often though, the guy can be very persistent, moreso when they are drunk, and it does make me uncomfortable. To be honest I normally leave if this this the case, I don't want any aggro on a night out and leaving is the only option that guarantees that.

old hippy

Tbf, I've been approached by females and males alike when I'm enjoying a relaxing beverage on my own and some of them are charming, whilst others can be annoying. I find if you say you're meeting someone or you smile and take a book out and say, sorry, really have to finish this chapter it can work. That or start talking loudly to yourself

I did have to intervene a while back when this drunken old guy started harrassing a much younger Polish girl in the pub. He several times asked her for a light and she didn't smoke. Then he came back and said "can I sit down with you and chat?" She was looking visibly uncomfortable and said no but he was insistent. I said loudly across the smoking area to him "look, the lady said no. Can you leave her alone now?" He went beacon red and got up to leave mumbling something about being lonely. Tough. We're all lonley at times but that doesn't give one the right to force your company on others.

Gauge

This only happened to me last weekend and it was annoying! I was meeting up with my sister for the first time since about Easter, so we had loads to catch up on and we were in great humour chatting away together in the pub.

We then get approached by a pair of lads who tell us they're here to cheer us up because we look bored (which is irritating enough in itself :mad:) and even though we told them straight off that we were actually there just to catch up with each other, they persisted. And the next part really irritated us because it became immediately obvious that Guy A was there to crack onto my sister (who is in a relationship) and Guy B/Wingman had been dispatched to keep me occupied while Guy A got his flirt on.

So now my sister is stuck talking to a guy she's not interested in, I'm stuck talking to a guy who's just asking me questions for the sake of keeping me busy, and what had previously been a nice conversation between the two of us has just been interrupted.

We discussed it afterwards because honestly? We weren't sure what was the most polite way to get rid of them without coming across all b1tchy. If I'd attempted to ignore the guy chatting to me and interrupt the guy flirting with my sister no doubt I'd have come across like a jealous cock blocker. She said that she'll often try the approach of slipping a mention of her boyfriend into the conversation but that's backfired more than once when someone has reacted along the lines of calling her stuck up for assuming he was flirting with her.

I agree that it does seem to be a specific cocky or oblivious type; these two were fairly blatant trying the same tactic with every other pair of women in the same bar once they'd given up on us. I guess it was just a tad annoying that the fact we were deep in conversation wasn't enough of a signal to leave us alone; not only that- they implied that we weren't having fun any but lucky for us, they were here now!

Another time it happened was when I was again, catching up with a friend I hadn't seen in months- the guy came along and interjected himself into our conversation by commenting on how it looked like we were two good friends having a great catch up- yes, exactly, and what on earth gave him the impression that he was welcome to make himself part of that? Same story, he wouldn't leave us alone until we asked him to and then we got asked why we were so unfriendly.

Faith

Gauge wrote: »

She said that she'll often try the approach of slipping a mention of her boyfriend into the conversation but that's backfired more than once when someone has reacted along the lines of calling her stuck up for assuming he was flirting with her.

I've point blank told guys that I'm in a long term relationship and they either don't believe me, or say I obviously need someone better :mad:.

If a guy is chatting up your friend and you try to get rid of him, often enough guys get aggressive and insulting to the 'cockblocking' girl.

For what it's worth too, it's not just Irish men who do this. It's men from all over the world.

meeeeh

I have problems with sleazy or sometimes annoyingly drunk men and it doesn't really matter in what situation they approach me. I'm not the most approachable person if I don't want to be and if they still don't get the message then I can be more direct or rude. That being said if someone is nice an polite it really doesn't matter in what circumstances they approach me. It's not always so easy to start talking to someone you don't know and the least I can do is be polite to them. So no it's not the situation it's the type of person that annoys me. Five minute conversation with someone who is decent won't kill anybody, no matter the circumstances. And also not every pub is appropriate for every occasion. I know plenty of places where I can go if I don't want to be disturbed. In some ways it is as much of a problem as you want it to be.

Never happened to me I think
Once years ago a couple of guys asked politely if they could join us and we said yes
That was about it

kylith

I was heading out after work a few years ago, but since I had an hour or so to kill before my mates were around I went to the pub to read and have a pint and a toastie. No sooner was I settled but some guy was over to me 'What are you reading? Is it good? What's your name?'. I was trying to be polite and answer his questions, but still very much avoiding eye contact and trying to read, in the end I just had to give up and leave. I vowed after that that I won't sit there and hope they feck off, I'll tell them 'I'm flattered by the attention, but I'm really not interested'. Reading other peoples' posts above has me unsure of the efficacy of that plan. I suppose one would have to draw oneself to full height and bellow "I've tried to be nice about it, now fúck off and leave me alone!" in order to be taken seriously, and then you're labelled a bitch.

You hear those apocryphal tales of men having an epiphany about how they treat women after being on the receiving end of unwanted attention from gay men. I wonder if it'd actually work, maybe there should be some roaming gang of gay men acting as Unwanted Attention Educators.

Honey-ec

Yep, there's a very specific type that does this and they just assume that they know better than you whether you actually want to talk to them or not. They're also next to impossible to deal with because if you're in any way polite or friendly to them initially, you're leading them on, and if you try and head them off at the pass, you're a stuck-up bitch. It's a no-win situation.

I've found the only way to deal with them is to be polite, but distant, for the first five minutes, and then just straight out say "Listen,we're trying to have a private conversation here." You generally get one of two reactions; the hurt, wounded, look, or the "Fooks sake, there's no need to be like that, luv," but quite frankly, as long as they piss off, I don't care.

And yes, these are the very types who complain long and loudly online about how horrible Irish women are.

endacl

Ladies, might I suggest just holding up a red card? Men understand football, and the slagging he'll get from the other lads should reinforce your message. In the minds of some, if you engage in conversation you've started a relationship for the evening.

As an aside, its not all of us! I hate people imposing themselves in my space. Just don't get the mindset and have an extremely low tolerance for it. I'd most likely be one of the reinforcing slaggers in this scenario...

--Kaiser--

Some people are really bad at reading social cues and body language and don't understand hints either. And I mean really bad. I've seen people turn almost with their back to someone, looking over their shoulder, resolutely avoiding contact and looking disinterested and the other person still talking like they're conversing with the most fascinated person in the world. Perhaps just come right out and say it 'I'm talking to my friend, I have no interest, sorry'

iwantmydinner

endacl wrote: »

Ladies, might I suggest just holding up a red card? Men understand football, and the slagging he'll get from the other lads should reinforce your message. In the minds of some, if you engage in conversation you've started a relationship for the evening.

As an aside, its not all of us! I hate people imposing themselves in my space. Just don't get the mindset and have an extremely low tolerance for it. I'd most likely be one of the reinforcing slaggers in this scenario...

I think most of us have acknowledged that - it's very definitely a small minority!

And the red card idea... I'm not being harsh, but a very silly idea. Essentially having to think ahead and arm oneself against annoyance and space-invasion.

iwantmydinner

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Some people are really bad at reading social cues and body language and don't understand hints either. And I mean really bad. I've seen people turn almost with their back to someone, looking over their shoulder, resolutely avoiding contact and looking disinterested and the other person still talking like they're conversing with the most fascinated person in the world. Perhaps just come right out and say it 'I'm talking to my friend, I have no interest, sorry'

We do. Sometimes elicits an aggressive reaction - it's not a simple situation.

Das Kitty

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Perhaps just come right out and say it 'I'm talking to my friend, I have no interest, sorry'

We're talking about the type of person who even directness doesn't work on. Well I was at least.

I've had numerous encounters with the type of guy who thinks he knows what I want better than I do.

kylith

iwantmydinner wrote: »

We do. Sometimes elicits an aggressive reaction - it's not a simple situation.

Yeah, when you're finally blunt is when you get the "Jesus, I was only being nice, you bitch''.

iwantmydinner

kylith wrote: »

Yeah, when you're finally blunt is when you get the "Jesus, I was only being nice, you bitch''.

...which in turns makes you think twice about being direct the next time you're faced with persistent annoyance.

listermint

Perchance is it the venue's you are going to ?

I understand there are plenty of persistant idiots out there. But generally speaking ive only seen them in the usual haunts so to speak.

Perhaps a change up on where you meet up you wont meet these plonkers, because with these lads there is no nice way of saying go away.

pwurple

listermint wrote: »

Perchance is it the venue's you are going to ?

I understand there are plenty of persistant idiots out there. But generally speaking ive only seen them in the usual haunts so to speak.

Perhaps a change up on where you meet up you wont meet these plonkers, because with these lads there is no nice way of saying go away.

+1 on this. We go to the old-man type local now for chats and catch up. No 20-30 year old prowlers about.

Just locals reading the paper, or having a laugh in their own group.

Sorted (unless you are a cocktail drinker, G&T is about as fancy as you'll get)

Meangadh

I've no problem with being approached when out (not that it happens all that often!)- I mean it does take guts to do it in fairness. And plenty of people have met on nights out and gone on to have relationships- and men are not mind readers, how are they to know whether you do want to be approached unless they actually go up to you. It just gets annoying when any of these situations arise:

1. They are highly intoxicated and messy. No thanks.
2. You have made it clear that you are not interested but they won't go away. This is just rude.
3. They understand that you're not interested, but instead of accepting it, you're now suddenly a stuck up cow.

The last one bothers me the most. If a guy I like doesn't like me, it firstly does not make me think he's an asshole- I just think, fair enough, he's just not into me. I'm not so conceited to think that there's something wrong with him. And it certainly does not make me want to go onto a message board and bitch about all Irish men, which is something we see a lot here about Irish women.

Basic message here for men is: Don't be hammered and just be polite. And don't take it personally if we turn you down.

kylith

listermint wrote: »

Perchance is it the venue's you are going to ?

I understand there are plenty of persistant idiots out there. But generally speaking ive only seen them in the usual haunts so to speak.

Perhaps a change up on where you meet up you wont meet these plonkers, because with these lads there is no nice way of saying go away.

Well, I was in Grogan's, which I wouldn't have thought is a hive of plonkers. I think it's pretty much anywhere you find young men you'll have a problem. In old men's pubs you'll find guys who like old men's pubs and can't take a hint, in trendy establishments you'll find guys who like trendy establishments and can't take a hint.

ToxicPaddy

I have a friend who either cannot take a very obvious hint or chooses to ignore them when trying to chat up girls. Sometimes we actually have to go over and drag him away as it's getting embarrassing yet he honestly believes he's successful and the intended target of his chat up attempts were indeed interested.

OP, I think you're perfectly in your right to tell a guy to fcuk off if he doesn't leave after numerous obvious clues and a straight up "we're not interested".

Another option is to go up to a bouncer and inform him the said guy is harassing you after you politely told him you weren't interested.

Worked in bars for years during school and college and there is a definite type of guy who won't take no for an answer. What often worried me was if any girl did fall for his charms, was the word "No" ignored later on too!!

listermint

kylith wrote: »

Well, I was in Grogan's, which I wouldn't have thought is a hive of plonkers. I think it's pretty much anywhere you find young men you'll have a problem. In old men's pubs you'll find guys who like old men's pubs and can't take a hint, in trendy establishments you'll find guys who like trendy establishments and can't take a hint.

Grogans is a trendy place, so yes it attracts plonkers. So indeed you will most certainly find and easily locate plonkers in grogans.

iwantmydinner

listermint wrote: »

Perchance is it the venue's you are going to ?

I understand there are plenty of persistant idiots out there. But generally speaking ive only seen them in the usual haunts so to speak.

Perhaps a change up on where you meet up you wont meet these plonkers, because with these lads there is no nice way of saying go away.

My experiences were in regular, chilled out, pop-in-for-a-drink-and-chat places. There's always one, even in the nice spots.

listermint

I suppose if you are just out looking to catch up and have a drink with a friend, choose the venue correctly. Maybe a gay bar ? stress free ?

mitosis

I dunno. You ask for advice on where to meet people and one of the suggestions is invariably the pub. I can understand to a degree the OP's point, but if she were out looking for "companionship" and was left unapproached that would give cause for complaint also, no?

A firm "No" to the guy should be enough, but anything less than firm will be seen as "maybe later". The lads see a group of women in their 30s for example, and see the possibility for no strings action, and maybe learn something. If they weren't catching the occasional fish they wouldn't be dangling the worm, so to speak

Faith

listermint wrote: »

Perchance is it the venue's you are going to ?

I understand there are plenty of persistant idiots out there. But generally speaking ive only seen them in the usual haunts so to speak.

Perhaps a change up on where you meet up you wont meet these plonkers, because with these lads there is no nice way of saying go away.

I definitely think that has something to do with it. In all my examples in my memory, they've all happened in late bars (I don't go to nightclubs so I can't say about them). We've sat for countless hours in non-late bars without someone even looking twice at us if we didn't know them, and that's great. But when you want to stay out past 11.30 midweek, there's very few options (in Cork, at least) so they all tend to be busy and noisy.

When my friend politely asked one guy to leave us alone last night, he said (I'm paraphrasing) "Shag off, I've no interest in you because you're mean. It's your friend I'm after". Perfect example of someone both refusing to go away and revealing themselves to be an utter dick. The funny thing is, not 5 minutes before that, he was telling us what a nice guy he is :rolleyes:.

kylith

listermint wrote: »

Grogans is a trendy place, so yes it attracts plonkers. So indeed you will most certainly find and easily locate plonkers in grogans.

Really? I always thought it was very much people's Local. This is a few years back though, so maybe it's changed.

Morag

listermint wrote: »

I suppose if you are just out looking to catch up and have a drink with a friend, choose the venue correctly. Maybe a gay bar ? stress free ?

Why should we have to go to a gay bar?

iwantmydinner

listermint wrote: »

I suppose if you are just out looking to catch up and have a drink with a friend, choose the venue correctly. Maybe a gay bar ? stress free ?

Are you being serious?

kylith

Morag wrote: »

Why should we have to go to a gay bar?

Because we should only be in public if we're actively looking for male attention. If we're in a relationship, gay, or just not looking at the moment we should hide away so that men can be sure that the only women they'll come across are actively seeking male companionship and therefore they won't have to develop rudimentary social skills such as knowing when to leave someone alone.

meeeeh

Now to be fair it is a "public" house, so if you hate to be approached there then maybe you shouldn't go to a pub. People are not mind readers to know that somebody has a boyfriend/girlfriend, doesn't want to talk to anybody else or whatever. The problem is when they won't take a hint that they are not welcome.

iwantmydinner

meeeeh wrote: »

Now to be fair it is a "public" house, so if you hate to be approached there then maybe you shouldn't go to a pub. People are not mind readers to know that somebody has a boyfriend/girlfriend, doesn't want to talk to anybody else or whatever. The problem is when they won't take a hint that they are not welcome.

These are the cases that this thread is discussing!

meeeeh

Realy? Because this very much sounds to me as talking about everybody.

kylith wrote: »

Because we should only be in public if we're actively looking for male attention. If we're in a relationship, gay, or just not looking at the moment we should hide away so that men can be sure that the only women they'll come across are actively seeking male companionship and therefore they won't have to develop rudimentary social skills such as knowing when to leave someone alone.

And btw idiot approaching you will be annoying in any circumstances, weather you are looking for someone or not. So I don't know why then it has to apply only to the situations when you are having private conversation with someone.

iwantmydinner

meeeeh wrote: »

Realy? Because this very much sounds to me as talking about everybody.

Eh, I'm open to correction, but I'm fairly certain that was sarcastic...

meeeeh

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Eh, I'm open to correction, but I'm fairly certain that was sarcastic...

Oh thank you, I really didn't understand that.

Oh and that was sarcasm too. Just to be sure.

kylith

meeeeh wrote: »

Realy? Because this very much sounds to me as talking about everybody.

You'll notice that that's me being sarky to Listermint who seems to think that if we don't want male attention we should go to gay bars. The only possible reason I can think of for someone to suggest that is what I posted; that he doesn't want to have to learn the difference between someone who is open to advances and someone who isn't.

iwantmydinner

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh thank you, I really didn't understand that.

Oh and that was sarcasm too. Just to be sure.

Ok, now I'm just confused.

old hippy

listermint wrote: »

I suppose if you are just out looking to catch up and have a drink with a friend, choose the venue correctly. Maybe a gay bar ? stress free ?

My problem with this suggestion would be why on earth can't women drink where they want without fear of unwanted attention?

meeeeh

kylith wrote: »

You'll notice that that's me being sarky to Listermint who seems to think that if we don't want male attention we should go to gay bars. The only possible reason I can think of for someone to suggest that is what I posted; that he doesn't want to have to learn the difference between someone who is open to advances and someone who isn't.

I know that and it's ridiculous expectation.

My point though is that it doesn't really matter if you are 'looking' or not, people should take a hint when you are not interested. What OP explained is not annoying because it was done while they had private conversation but because it was annoying anyway.

But I am glad that people still approach others in the pub even though they sometimes interrupt private conversation. It's what they do later that matters.

old hippy

kylith wrote: »

Really? I always thought it was very much people's Local. This is a few years back though, so maybe it's changed.

Grogan's. Ah, that takes me back. I remember 20 years ago being approached by a drunk/merry but not annoying lady. I was a bit drunk/merry myself, so I didn't mind the attention. Ended up being an enjoyable night.

Amirani

Faith wrote: »

I've point blank told guys that I'm in a long term relationship and they either don't believe me, or say I obviously need someone better :mad:.

If a guy is chatting up your friend and you try to get rid of him, often enough guys get aggressive and insulting to the 'cockblocking' girl.

For what it's worth too, it's not just Irish men who do this. It's men from all over the world.

I've been out with female friends of mine when similar has happened to them. Them saying "you could do so much better" is a really insulting thing to say to someone in my opinion, yet some people seem to think they're giving a compliment.

The cockblocking accusations are common also, and also very annoying (Yeah, you're going to improve your chances by having a go at the person's mate ). I don't know why some people can't just accept no for an answer. I've been in a couple of situations where myself or another in a group has had to intervene to tell someone to get lost.

cantdecide

If your politeness and patience with an unwelcome interloper is at an end and it becomes appropriate to tell them get lost, just tell them get lost and let them think what they want of you. If they continue to bug you, call a bouncer.

Everyone will be approached by someone in some setting whether male or female, gay or straight, sober or drunk whereby they won't take a hint and fcuk off. This can happen any of us any time we walk outside the door. I don't think there are many ways of playing it other than the ones that have been mentioned already.

bur

Thinly veiled - 'i'm so hot i can't go anywhere without being hit on' - thread.

Wibbs

bur, if that's your quality of input to this thread, don't post in it again. Next time it'll be a ban.

Meangadh

bur wrote: »

Thinly veiled - 'i'm so hot i can't go anywhere without being hit on' - thread.

I don't like using this guy but: :rolleyes:

You know that's not what this thread is about.

pharmaton

listermint wrote: »

I suppose if you are just out looking to catch up and have a drink with a friend, choose the venue correctly. Maybe a gay bar ? stress free ?

if they don't mind other women hitting on them I suppose (although then it might be "why can't I go to a gay bar without getting hit on by gay women" thread.)

Morag

Are you kidding me, there are issues when straight women go to a gay bar to not be bothered by men. They do get hassled and get asked why are they there.

I should be able to go out to a pub and spend time with friends with out arseholes interupting me.

Shane732

Could the two of you have sat at a table?

What type of pub was it?

How about ... guys who do this just stop acting like assholes instead of everyone telling women to hide away or go to tables or gay bars or the rest of it
Jaysus