Heineken & Amlin Cup 2013/14 General Discussion

.ak

Rightwing wrote: »

Do you even know who is in Leinster's group ?

Ospreys, complete losers
Castres, never give a hoot about it
Saints, good for 2 or 3 games and then fall apart.

Didn't you think Leinster's group was easy last season too?

Lelantos

thomond2006 wrote: »

Castres were excellent in the Top14 playoffs, I'd be very wary of them from a Leinster perspective.

Sorry, the Munster and Leinster groups aren't comparable IMO. Would you rather have Ospreys or Edinburgh, Gloucester or Northampton?

I'm not sure, but haven't Castres lost their coaching team & Saints their whole front row. That's got to really hurt both sides? Not getting into the whole, who's got the easier group, but that has to be a factor imo

.ak

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Sadly I think it is. They have more strength in depth and have a style that suits their play.

This season will be interesting,I look forward to see what style we play.

I think it'll narrow. The emergence of key players like Murray, Zebo, Ryan and POM are key. Leinster don't have any new international class talent apart from Madigan, and they'll be relying on him and some of the old guard to bring new talent through.

Honestly couldn't call it this early before the season has started.

Rightwing

.ak wrote: »

Didn't you think Leinster's group was easy last season too?

No, last year I said it was manageable, everyone else seemed to be quaking in their boots at the thought of Clermont. But once again, they faltered proving me correct.

Tox56

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm not sure, but haven't Castres lost their coaching team & Saints their whole front row. That's got to really hurt both sides? Not getting into the whole, who's got the easier group, but that has to be a factor imo

Saints have upgraded massively with Corbisiero and Hartley is still there. There's also the small matter of Fotali'i (sp?) and North coming in

Rightwing

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm not sure, but haven't Castres lost their coaching team & Saints their whole front row. That's got to really hurt both sides? Not getting into the whole, who's got the easier group, but that has to be a factor imo

Exactly, I never said one group was easier than the other, I said they are 2 easy groups, unlike Ulster's one.

.ak

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But in fairness you don't support Leinster.

Let me put it this way. IF Leinster were in our group they would walk it. If we were in their group it would be tough going. But they are not and we are not so we can only compare the actual teams in their respective groups.

Yeah but take Munster and Leinster out of the equation. The poster stated they were both easy groups. Not both relatively easy groups considering who's in them.

I think it's an easier group for Leinster compared to last season, but there's no denying Munster got the best draw of any tier 1 team.

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

No. Just No, They'd be out of business if that was their reasoning.

It obviously isn't their entire rationale and probability is one of the variables in the calculation but their level of exposure is also a vital component, heavily involved in the setting of the odds.

Micky Dolenz

.ak wrote: »

Yeah but take Munster and Leinster out of the equation. The poster stated they were both easy groups. Not both relatively easy groups considering who's in them.

I think it's an easier group for Leinster compared to last season, but there's no denying Munster got the best draw of any tier 1 team.

But taking teams out of groups they are already in is pointless.

Have Leinster a favourable group they should top, yes. The same applies to Munster.

Rightwing

Buer wrote: »

It obviously isn't their entire rationale and probability is one of the variables in the calculation but their level of exposure is also a vital component, heavily involved in the setting of the odds.

Interesting. What about Perpignan, they are 28/1 and no one could say they are a heavily backed team.

matthew8

Northampton are the joint strongest English team in the tournament. They were the last English team in the final, got to their domestic final and have acquired 3 players who are among the world's best in their position. 2 of Europe's finest teams went to visit the Ospreys last year and could not win. Castres are the wildcard team and it's hard to know what they bring, but as Champions of Europe's highest quality league, they can't be taken lightly. Compare that to a pool consisting of the laughing stock of last year's competition and 2 teams who failed to make domestic playoffs and it's a massive gap.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

Do you even know who is in Leinster's group ?

Ospreys, complete losers
Castres, never give a hoot about it
Saints, good for 2 or 3 games and then fall apart.

Such absolute nonsense

First off those "complete losers" have a fantastic record against Leinster, In fact, they've made a business out of beating Leinster over their period of European dominance
Saints haven't been great in Europe over the last season or two but they're still a very strong side and have made some big signings in Corbs and North and will be a very hard side to beat over two legs

So, ya, not an easy group at all despite your "analysis of the above teams":rolleyes:

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

It;ll be like last year, down to the wire, 2 losses away to Glaws and away to Perp, can we pick up enough bonus points along the way.

Munster should be looking to top their group considering how relatively easy it is. It will be a bit of a disaster if we're relying on a best runners up spot again

molloyjh

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Such absolute nonsense

First off those "complete losers" have a fantastic record against Leinster, Castre arguably should have bet them last season so not sure how you can say they don't give a hoot

Saints haven't been great in Europe over the last season or two but they're still a very strong side and have made some big signings in Corbs and North and will be a very hard side to beat over two legs

So, ya, not an easy group at all despite your "analysis of the above teams":rolleyes:

Not to mention that those "complete losers" have won more trophies in the last 4 years than Munster have, plus in the last 2 season Munster have lost to Ospreys 3 times, drawn once and haven't won once. But sure leave him off...

Podge_irl

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

First off those "complete losers" have a fantastic record against Leinster, In fact, they've made a business out of beating Leinster over their period of European dominance

Don't want to overly get involved in this (particular as its the Munster thread), but one stat that WOC came up with that I thought was great was that only two teams beat Leinster more than twice in Joe's 3 years there - Clermont (3) and Ospreys (5).

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Podge_irl wrote: »

Don't want to overly get involved in this (particular as its the Munster thread), but one stat that WOC came up with that I thought was great was that only two teams beat Leinster more than twice in Joe's 3 years there - Clermont (3) and Ospreys (5).

"Complete losers" sure

Anyway, you're right, nothing to do with Munster but I just take exception to something being said with such grand proclamation that is just so painfully wrong

Rightwing

molloyjh wrote: »

Not to mention that those "complete losers" have won more trophies in the last 4 years than Munster have, plus in the last 2 season Munster have lost to Ospreys 3 times, drawn once and haven't won once. But sure leave him off...

When the ospreys prove they can make a semi final, I'll have another look at them. Some might think they are H cup potentials. I'm afraid they're not.

Edinburgh have proven an average team can make the semi's. Over to you Ospreys.

I suspect another massive failure on the way proving my point once more.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

When the ospreys prove they can make a semi final, I'll have another look at them. Some might think they are H cup potentials. I'm afraid they're not.

Edinburgh have proven an average team can make the semi's. Over to you Ospreys.

I suspect another massive failure on the way proving my point once more.

Sorry but you're making it sound as if people are saying Ospreys are genuine contenders to win the HC. They probably have a chance alright but that's not what people are saying

They're contesting you're weird notion that they're "complete losers" when in fact they're anything but considering their recent trophy haul and Leinster scalps and are part of what is a very hard group for Leinster

Also, if you expanded on your point rather than saying something as (frankly childish) "they're complete losers" you probably wouldn't get as much flak for it. Making such a state of the nation summation of one team like that and not actually trying to back it up is very annoying

Rightwing

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Sorry but you're making it sound as if people are saying Ospreys are genuine contenders to win the HC. They probably have a chance alright but that's not what people are saying

They're contesting you're weird notion that they're "complete losers" when in fact they're anything but considering their recent trophy haul and Leinster scalps and are part of what is a very hard group for Leinster

We're talking about H Cup.

We need to move a level beyond 'they are in leinster's group, they must be real good'. That's utter nonsense that no knowledgeable poster will believe.

Case closed.

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

We're talking about H Cup.

We need to move a level beyond 'they are in leinster's group, they must be real good'. That's utter nonsense that no knowledgeable poster will believe.

Case closed.

I'm gonna assume this is a thinly veiled potshot at me.

When exactly did I say your quote? You did read my post on it before? I actually tried to justify my point, something which you (from my own POV) don't seem to do.

Case Closed indeed, sorry mate but I'm making a point to not respond to you.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

We're talking about H Cup.

We need to move a level beyond 'they are in leinster's group, they must be real good'. That's utter nonsense that no knowledgeable poster will believe.

Case closed.

Again, you said Ospreys are "complete losers", this is not true. Not sure what you're on about in relation to people thinking sides in Leinsters group are automatically good or "knowledgeable posters"

Get back to me if you're interested in backing up your claim that Ospreys are a bad side

Podge_irl

Rightwing wrote: »

We're talking about H Cup.

We need to move a level beyond 'they are in leinster's group, they must be real good'. That's utter nonsense that no knowledgeable poster will believe.

Case closed.

Toulouse, Leicester, Biarritz, Munster, Toulon, Clermont.

What do these perennial HEC losers all have in common?

They've all failed to beat the Ospreys in Swansea in the last 6 seasons. In fact, they've only lost once at home in the last 6 seasons.

That is all people are saying - not that the Ospreys are contenders or have a huge HEC pedigree.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Podge_irl wrote: »

Toulouse, Leicester, Biarritz, Munster, Toulon, Clermont.

What do these perennial HEC losers all have in common?

They've all failed to beat the Ospreys in Swansea in the last 6 seasons. In fact, they've only lost once at home in the last 6 seasons.

That is all people are saying - not that the Ospreys are contenders or have a huge HEC pedigree.

Which is all in response to the claim that Ospreys are "complete losers". Which is completely untrue, both at HC and Rabo level

Rightwing

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm gonna assume this is a thinly veiled potshot at me.

When exactly did I say your quote? You did read my post on it before? I actually tried to justify my point, something which you (from my own POV) don't seem to do.

Case Closed indeed, sorry mate but I'm making a point to not respond to you.

Incorrect, nothing to do with you, or indeed any one individual.

thomond2006

Rightwing wrote: »

Incorrect, nothing to do with you, or indeed any one individual.

Fair enough. I try to justify posts as much as possible!

Rightwing

Podge_irl wrote: »

Toulouse, Leicester, Biarritz, Munster, Toulon, Clermont.

What do these perennial HEC losers all have in common?

They've all failed to beat the Ospreys in Swansea in the last 6 seasons. In fact, they've only lost once at home in the last 6 seasons.

That is all people are saying - not that the Ospreys are contenders or have a huge HEC pedigree.

Indeed but Edinburgh beat Toulouse en route to a H cup semi, something the ospreys have failed to reach yet. The 2 groups are easy, no question about that.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

Indeed but Edinburgh beat Toulouse en route to a H cup semi, something the ospreys have failed to reach yet. The 2 groups are easy, no question about that.

Obviously there is a question if literally everyone on this thread disagrees with you.

Again, saying Ospreys are complete losers and saying their part of an easy group. ? Do you really think two fixtures against the Osrpeys will be easy for Leinster?

Rightwing

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Obviously there is a question if literally everyone on this thread disagrees with you.

Again, saying Ospreys are complete losers and saying their part of an easy group. ? Do you really think two fixtures against the Osrpeys will be easy for Leinster?

Anyone who thinks that is a tough group simply isn't at the races imho.

Sometimes I wonder do the Welsh teams even care. Cardiff Blues a prime example, but at least they managed to get to a semi a few years back, and indeed were unlucky not to get to a final.

former legend

Rightwing wrote: »

Indeed but Edinburgh beat Toulouse en route to a H cup semi, something the ospreys have failed to reach yet. The 2 groups are easy, no question about that.

RTE's take:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2013/0605/454758-rugby-draws/

Midi Olympique reckon it's the pool of death;
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe-d-europe/2012-2013/h-cup-castres-dans-la-poule-de-la-mort-clermont-avec-le-racing_sto3789783/story.shtml

The Guardian reckon it's the most demanding assignment:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jun/05/heineken-cup-draw-english-clubs

I could go on. Leinster have a very tough group.

Lelantos

former legend wrote: »

RTE's take:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/european/2013/0605/454758-rugby-draws/

Midi Olympique reckon it's the pool of death;
http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe-d-europe/2012-2013/h-cup-castres-dans-la-poule-de-la-mort-clermont-avec-le-racing_sto3789783/story.shtml

The Guardian reckon it's the most demanding assignment:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jun/05/heineken-cup-draw-english-clubs

I could go on. Leinster have a very tough group.

we'll give them Niall Ronan & they'll sail thru!