The Anglo Irish Tapes

P. Breathnach

Sergeant wrote: »

Revolution.
?
?
A modern Irish Utopia.

Let's develop the model:
Revolution.
The AH club of the righteously-enraged forms a directorate to take charge of things.
?
?
A modern Irish Utopia.

Sergeant

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Let's develop the model:
Revolution.
The AH club of the righteously-enraged forms a directorate to take charge of things.
?
?
A modern Irish Utopia.

Oh, that's good. I was worried that all the details and nuances of a sudden revolution in a mature social democracy hadn't been ironed out in advance.

OU812

I wonder if these were leaked so as to allow for a bail-in???

"No-one will loan us money anymore because of the scandal so we have to get it from somewhere"

mikom

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Exactly, a few hardcore lefties getting together outside Leinster House won't accomplish anything.

Anyway, this will all have blown over in a week or two.

I wonder where this posters allegiances lie?

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It's called Fine Gael, and yes, we are doing a good job keeping Labour in check.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

If we had been given a majority, we would have been able to deal much more effectively with the unions. As it stands, we didn't get the mandate, so we're doing what we can (with a decent degree of success).

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Enda and his team are doing the best they can given the cards they have been dealt. I hope that helps.

Oh, right.......

atkin

Really this is TREASON of the highest order strange the word has not been used.

I would like to hear from someone who worked for these louts. They had the respect of employees who saw them as 'captains' of industry.
You make a small mistake in your job you are chastised demoted or fired by such people.
The tapes how were they retrieved I wonder ????

RiverOfLove

It was mentioned in the thread about these tapes at www.politics.ie, that there is a story doing the rounds that the regulator was fully informed on the losses within the banks before the bail-out and that there is documentation to support this.

Leftist

the sick thing about it all is the moron public will vote in the FF party that over saw all of this.

A country bankrupt of intelligence.

Dyr

mikom wrote: »

I wonder where this posters allegiances lie?







Oh, right.......

Truth is that for a lot of posters here guys like Drummo and Seanie were poster boys for their ideology, you're wasting your time expecting them to support having their values discredited any further. They still can't get over the shock that these captains of industry were not only found out to be corrupt but also fkin stupid.

Oh that and the fact that Dukes was in the middle of all this..might be a bit too close to home for some

BuilderPlumber

Leftist wrote: »

the sick thing about it all is the moron public will vote in the FF party that over saw all of this.

A country bankrupt of intelligence.

True. The main reason is there that politics in Ireland give us no choice. And the political parties KNOW this so they don't even attempt to improve their poor governance.

The choice Ireland has is:

1. Fianna Fail and Labour/Independents/Minor Parties coalition.
2. Fine Gael and Labour/Independents/Minor Parties coalition.
3. Fianna Fail on their own.
4. Fine Gael on their own.

(All four of these amount to the same: common or garden corruption and cronyism masquerading as moderate)

5. The Jintos.

(Corruption and cronyism that does not even attempt to hide behind a moderate agenda - hardline isolationalism enforced by the gun).

Deedsie

Leftist wrote: »

the sick thing about it all is the moron public will vote in the FF party that over saw all of this.

A country bankrupt of intelligence.

We will only have three and a half options in the next election though.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin or the independents. Labour will be toxic until 2021.

The independents are sort of irrelevant. So of the three who do you propose people vote for and why? I have no party allegiance whatsoever. Just want to flesh out this often made comment.

Personally I think FF are the most likely to try and prosecute these banking officials as FF it seems were duped by them. FF's own negligent fault but still they are sure feeling the sting of this more than anyone?

bumper234

Deedsie wrote: »

We will only have three and a half options in the next election though.

Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin or the independents. Labour will be toxic until 2021.

The independents are sort of irrelevant. So of the three who do you propose people vote for and why? I have no party allegiance whatsoever. Just want to flesh out this often made comment.

Personally I think FF are the most likely to try and prosecute these banking officials as FF it seems were duped by them. FF's own negligent fault but still they are sure feeling the sting of this more than anyone?

Not sure about this. It could turn out that FF don't want them prosecuted as proof could be there that they were in cahoots with them. How many times have we read about the Galway tent? How many politicians got mortgages without filling in the paper work?

SpaceTime

Actually, the definition of treason is pretty narrow in the legal context in Ireland. You have to 'levy war against the state' before it falls into that category. So, it's definitely not 'treason' in a legal sense anyway.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1939/en/act/pub/0010/print.html

MrPoker

I'll be attending the protest tomorrow demanding justice. We need to throw these guys who caused this mess under the bus now. Bankers, polititicians and everybody who was involved in this mess. Unless we do so our international reputation will be destroyed and we will not be respected and be considered a basket case of a nation.

This is not an attack on our current government and we need to put clear water between them and our previous farce of a government FF so we can move forward. It sickens me to see FF rise again.  A precedent needs to be set to ensure this type of crisis and robbery never happens again in the future.

joe316

More tapes tomorrow, just confirmed by Paul Williams on Newstalk.

I heard rumours that it could involve politicans, thats the bombshell that Im waiting for, thats why Cowan and co have been very quiet. They may not be on the call but have a feeling that they will be mentioned.

JohnFalstaff

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The choice Ireland has is:

1. Fianna Fail and Labour/Independents/Minor Parties coalition.
2. Fine Gael and Labour/Independents/Minor Parties coalition.
3. Fianna Fail on their own.
4. Fine Gael on their own.

(All four of these amount to the same: common or garden corruption and cronyism masquerading as moderate)

5. The Jintos.

(Corruption and cronyism that does not even attempt to hide behind a moderate agenda - hardline isolationalism enforced by the gun).

Who the hell are The Jintos?? Is there some new hardline Irish Jihadi movement I should be afraid of??

Deedsie

Deedsie wrote: »

Personally I think FF are the most likely to try and prosecute these banking officials as FF it seems were duped by them. FF's own negligent fault but still they are sure feeling the sting of this more than anyone?

Well the Jury is still out and whether they were 'duped' or whether they were up to their necks in it themselves. Do we need a reminder of the Golden Circle debacle?

An Axis of Collusion is what Enda called it, and that's what it was. Whatever about whether it was corruption, or stupidity, or a little of both - It was FF and Anglo in bed with each other that caused this mess.

FG didn't bring in the banking guarantee, so I don't see why mentioning parties like FG/Labour/SF etc are in any way relevant. All that does is deflect from the fact that it was FF who made the original mess, and allows FF off scott-free by devaluing the level of destruction that was ravaged on the Irish state by them and their golfing buddies.

Ciaran_B

joe316 wrote: »

More tapes tomorrow, just confirmed by Paul Williams on Newstalk.

I heard rumours that it could involve politicans, thats the bombshell that Im waiting for, thats why Cowan and co have been very quiet. They may not be on the call but have a feeling that they will be mentioned.

So far I’ve found the tapes to be particularly underwhelming; there’s nothing close to a smoking gun here. I’m waiting for a conversation between the regulator or a senior politician that shows they knew how screwed the back was before the bail out. But I think if they had something that explosive they would have released it by now.

Zebra3

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well the Jury is still out and whether they were 'duped' or whether they were up to their necks in it themselves. Do we need a reminder of the Golden Circle debacle?

An Axis of Collusion is what Enda called it, and that's what it was. Whatever about whether it was corruption, or stupidity, or a little of both - It was FF and Anglo in bed with each other that caused this mess.

FG didn't bring in the banking guarantee, so I don't see why mentioning parties like FG/Labour/SF etc are in any way relevant. All that does is deflect from the fact that it was FF who made the original mess, and allows FF off scott-free by devaluing the level of destruction that was ravaged on the Irish state by them and their golfing buddies.

FG backed the guarantee and some of FG's leading figures got loans in very dodgy circumstances from some of the banks involved in the guarantee.

bear1

Life in prison they should get. People have been destroyed thanks to them and their dishonesty. They should be held to account for any suicides caused by it as well and charged with manslaughter and whatever the **** else they can throw at them.
If nothing comes of them I'm moving the **** out of this country!

SEPT 23 1989

I want to know how many FF/FG/Labour politicians had loans with Anglo

bear1

All of them.

If ordinary members of the public did this they'd be in prison before they'd even know it. Scumbags

joe316

Ciaran_B wrote: »

So far I’ve found the tapes to be particularly underwhelming; there’s nothing close to a smoking gun here. I’m waiting for a conversation between the regulator or a senior politician that shows they knew how screwed the back was before the bail out. But I think if they had something that explosive they would have released it by now.

I dont think that you would ever get a conversation like that, if this is what they are saying over the phone, what would they say in a face to face meeting? Thats when things like you mention would be mentioned, they were stupid for what they said on the phone but they arent that stupid.

Williams confirmed that there is a link to senior civil servant, wonder is that a certain person who got a nice junket to the european court of auditors??? Send him off a cushy number and keep quiet, good lad!

awec

I am genuinely baffled as to how a political party could be duped by this.

Did they really just say "we need 7 billion" and Fianna Fáil wrote them a cheque? Surely there was thorough investigation of the books of the bank before a penny was handed over?

RiverOfLove

Draft legislation was being drafted up in May 2008 for a financial collaspe. It was mentioned on tv3.

No way was that bank guarantee an overnight job like how it was presented to us.

Sergeant

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I want to know how many FF/FG/Labour politicians had loans with Anglo

What about Sinn Féin? Considering they voted for to support the bill.

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0662/D.0662.200810010032.html

Labour voted against the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) bill.

SEPT 23 1989

awec wrote: »

I am genuinely baffled as to how a political party could be duped by this.

Did they really just say "we need 7 billion" and Fianna Fáil wrote them a cheque? Surely there was thorough investigation of the books of the bank before a penny was handed over?

If you don't give us this we will reveal what we have loaned you

Sergeant

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

If you don't give us this we will reveal what we have loaned you

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

SEPT 23 1989

Sergeant wrote: »

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

we will see Serge we will see

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

FG backed the guarantee and some of FG's leading figures got loans in very dodgy circumstances from some of the banks involved in the guarantee.

We're talking about Anglo and the FF Government, they had the power and they made the decision.

Once again, why all this deflection? Why this need to share the blame? As said above, of all the main parties it was only Labour who voted against the bill. The facts are that FF held the reigns of government and had all their cronies in positions such as the Financial Regulator and that's what led to this mess.

Wurzelbert

so why exactly was that referendum that would have given more power to politicians to conduct inquiries into the banks rejected by a majority in 2011 or whenever it was...?