Canada vs Ireland, 12:40, TG4

jm08

trouttrout wrote: »

ffs, what a load of ****e

So the reason POM gets involved in handbags is because he can't afford to ignore it because Toner is too soft to stick up for him? Your posts are just beyond ridiculous

I better spell it out for you then. Brad Thorn was the enforcer for the ABs which allowed McCaw be the diplomatic one when it came to talking to refs. McCaw got away with blue murder at the breakdown which resulted in players like Heislip getting really frustrated with him and doing stuff that is way out of character for him.

Toner (or Tuohy) are way too inexperienced at international level to adopt an enforcer role a la Thorn which would have allowed POM adopt the diplomatic role.

Podge_irl

POM playing the way he does has nothing to do with the players around him and everything to do with the player he is. Whether you view what he does as good or bad, its simply his style of play whether he is playing with Devin Toner or Paul O'Connell.

Foxtrol

Podge_irl wrote: »

But I suppose the main counterargument is that it never has cost his side so why would he stop now? Maybe if he started getting penalised for it he would change his game.

I think he should tone it down because it's down to luck more than anything that has stopped him from being penalised and possibly costing his team (as I said before others will say he knows the line / plays the ref). He could possibly wait to change his game but I don't see how the currently level of involvement in handbags is worth potentially costing his side.

I've no problem with a player standing up for himself but he just seems to want to be in the middle of everything, which is even more an issue when he's captain.

trouttrout

trouttrout wrote: »

It's a real pity Afoa is going to be ahead of Fitz because I genuinely think he's better than Ross when fit

Is this a joke?

Fitzpatrick was torn asunder last night. Folded like a wet napkin on every engage bar one.

Fwiw, I think Fitz should have started the game with Hagan on at 50 minutes.

I like Fitzpatrick, but he's nowhere near Ross, and Ross isn't anywhere near the player he was 2 years ago either.

Mahatma Geansai

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think he should tone it down because it's down to luck more than anything that has stopped him from being penalised and possibly costing his team (as I said before others will say he knows the line / plays the ref). He could possibly wait to change his game but I don't see how the currently level of involvement in handbags is worth potentially costing his side.

I've no problem with a player standing up for himself but he just seems to want to be in the middle of everything, which is even more an issue when he's captain.

But it has never cost his side. Not in his 15 Irish caps, or his near 50 Munster ones. There is zero reason to suggest that it may end up costing his side anything.

The handbags mightn't be something that everyone warms to, but as long as he keeps performing there is no issue. He has been a level above everyone else on tour.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

POM playing the way he does has nothing to do with the players around him and everything to do with the player he is. Whether you view what he does as good or bad, its simply his style of play whether he is playing with Devin Toner or Paul O'Connell.

I wouldn't agree about who is around him making a difference - D Ryan & Doc adopt the confrontational lock role for Munster & Ireland, not POC.

POM has 2 yellow cards in his 3 seasons to date (and none last season) for Munster, so he clearly knows where the line is.

Zzippy

jm08 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree about who is around him making a difference - D Ryan & Doc adopt the confrontational lock role for Munster & Ireland, not POC.

POM has 2 yellow cards in his 3 seasons to date (and none last season) for Munster, so he clearly knows where the line is.

Knowing where the line is, and still getting involved in handbags on every possible occasion, may be compatible on a discipline level, but it certainly doesn't make him captain material. IMO.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree about who is around him making a difference - D Ryan & Doc adopt the confrontational lock role for Munster & Ireland, not POC.

POM has 2 yellow cards in his 3 seasons to date (and none last season) for Munster, so he clearly knows where the line is.

I think that POM knows where the line is as a player. Very different as a captain and when the ref tells you on a number of occasions that you need to set an example in terms of discipline then you have as a captain cross the line.

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

POM has 2 yellow cards in his 3 seasons to date (and none last season) for Munster, so he clearly knows where the line is.

That's a good point. I think a lot of the debate is about whether it impacts on his ability to be a captain. Last night it didn't really, unless you want to talk in what ifs or what could have beens, which people are entitled to do. I for one will be interested to see him captaining Munster over a sustained period of time.

Hagz

McFadden played a part in setting up Andrew Trimble for the opening try before scoring three of his side's six tries.

"Fergus is just one of those players you want to have around your team," said Kiss, who will now hand over the reins to incoming coach Joe Schmidt.

"He is such a great character. What he brings to a team in terms of energy and enthusiasm is sensational.

"If he doesn't get selected he is still the same person. He has an uncanny ability to score tries at international level.

"Last week he shipped an injury in the game and he toughed his way through it.

"He trained through a bit of injury this week and got a knock in the game again but just keeps powering on. I can't speak highly enough about him and the way he played."

Kiss reflected with pride on Ireland's tour which included a narrow victory over the United States in Houston last weekend and which saw six players making their Test debuts, including try scorer Tommy O'Donnell.

"Without a doubt we found out a little about ourselves as players," he said.

"From a coaching perspective it was certainly encouraging on a lot of fronts.

"Sometimes the perception is you can come and get these tier two nations and run it away easily but they were both tough affairs.

"Tonight I think it was the 54th minute it was 14-12. We had to find something, keep our composure and again fantastic leadership through Peter (O'Mahony).

"It pulled us through to a place where we could have the intent to attack as much as we can. And that ended up getting the tries for us.

"(There were) six new caps and guys have learnt a lot about themselves. I think it has been a really good tour in that respect."

Onwards and upwards. Can't express how exited I am to see Schmidt take over. There's a nice blend of youthful exuberance and experienced winners. A key area I'd love to see sorted out though is tight-head. My hope is that Matt O'Connor will have no fears in promoting Moore ahead of Bent. Also, When is Nathan White eligible does anyone know? Is at the end of next season?

phog

Foxtrol wrote: »

This defensiveness/preciousness from certain posters over saying anything that isn't solely positive about everything related to Munster is seriously getting tiresome.

That trait is common enough across most posters regardless of their province, if you feel that Munster supporters are in the majority then maybe it shows whose doing most of the borderline trolling.

thomond2006

POM is a bit of a Hartley lite for me. His abrasiveness is part of what makes him a good player and also gives him a "follow me into the trenches everyone" kind of attitude, which is great for a leader. Thankfully he hasn't lost the rag like Hartley has on occasion. Peter is only 24 in September so he's still a young player.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Hagz wrote: »

Onwards and upwards. Can't express how exited I am to see Schmidt take over. There's a nice blend of youthful exuberance and experienced winners. A key area I'd love to see sorted out though is tight-head. My hope is that Matt O'Connor will have no fears in promoting Moore ahead of Bent. Also, When is Nathan White eligible does anyone know? Is at the end of next season?

Bent is a worry allright. Emerging Ireland gave up a few tries from scrums today. Problem seemed to be on Bent's side to me.

White will qualify September 2014.

Chabals Beard

thomond2006 wrote: »

POM is a bit of a Hartley lite for me. His abrasiveness is part of what makes him a good player and also gives him a "follow me into the trenches everyone" kind of attitude, which is great for a leader. Thankfully he hasn't lost the rag like Hartley has on occasion. Peter is only 24 in September so he's still a young player.

Except POM is adored by those rugby meme pages on Facebook, whereas Hartley is hated.

Lelantos

trouttrout wrote: »

I agree but my point is that Ross ain't the only TH in the village anymore. I rate a fit Dec Fitz higher and I think Hagan will be more or less on a par with him next season if his progression continues. Archer a bit more to go

I'm not so sure. Fitz was pretty awful last nite as was pointed out during the game. His fitness is always in doubt, he played an hour before last years 6 nations I think.
Hagan going to LI has finished his chances of an Ireland shot for a few years, he may get clubgametime, but he's out of sight & outside of Bowe, English based players don't get picked.
Archer is coming along very well in the last 12 months, unrecognizable compared to 2 seasons ago, Botha gets a big hand for that, I think perhaps Archer makes 6 nations squads regularly next season if he continues in this vein

almighty1

jm08 wrote: »

Richie McCaw had Brad Thorn and a few others like the refs looking out for him. Dev Toner is no Brad Thorn.

True. POM is no Richie McCaw either.

Quint2010

Thought it was a pretty good performance from Ireland. Great to see McFadden get a hat-trick and some of the other fringe players have good matches. Thought Tommy O'Donnell, POM and Toner all had excellent games. Madigan mixed the good with the ordinary but we have good strength in depth at OH now which can only bode well.

dtpc191991

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm not so sure. Fitz was pretty awful last nite as was pointed out during the game. His fitness is always in doubt, he played an hour before last years 6 nations I think.
Hagan going to LI has finished his chances of an Ireland shot for a few years, he may get clubgametime, but he's out of sight & outside of Bowe, English based players don't get picked.
Archer is coming along very well in the last 12 months, unrecognizable compared to 2 seasons ago, Botha gets a big hand for that, I think perhaps Archer makes 6 nations squads regularly next season if he continues in this vein

In the old days that was true but I highly doubt Schmidt will be bound by that kind of tradition which is, quite frankly, stupid. No if Hagan is good enough he will be picked regardless of where he plays his club rugby.

Lelantos

dtpc191991 wrote: »

In the old days that was true but I highly doubt Schmidt will be bound by that kind of tradition which is, quite frankly, stupid. No if Hagan is good enough he will be picked regardless of where he plays his club rugby.

I can't see that tradition changing. Sexton is the exception, but if a coach has to travel to England to watch a possible second or third choice prop play with no other possible Irish players to look at, I can't see it happening.

Podge_irl

Lelantos wrote: »

I can't see that tradition changing. Sexton is the exception, but if a coach has to travel to England to watch a possible second or third choice prop play with no other possible Irish players to look at, I can't see it happening.

I'm not sure who exactly it is you think was overlooked by being in England, but anyway the reason English based players aren't picked (particularly for peripheral positions) is because they only enter camp on a Monday and if they aren't going to be in the 23 they have to be released back to their club by Wednesday. So its a practical thing. If the player is definitely going to be in the squad then they will be called up regardless.

.ak

This game worth watching?

trouttrout

.ak wrote: »

This game worth watching?

Yep

Buer

.ak wrote: »

This game worth watching?

Yup. Plenty of incident and all of our tries are decent with the first four being excellent.

trouttrout

There's a stage in the first half when Tom Court, Touhy and I think TOD all link up in one phase of play in the Canadian 22. The type of thing you would never have seen under Kidney

.ak

Happy days, thanks.

Niallof9

.ak wrote: »

This game worth watching?

IMO, no.

I think some of the suggestion/evidence of a new era etc is actually bs.

This was Kiss, Smal and Foley (the ghost of Kidney). Kiss effectively admitted that he told Madigan to not overplay his hand, i.e. not express himself. Schmidt took training last week but no hand in gameplan etc.

Ireland were very poor for long stretches of this match. Nine of the Canadian team were amateur. Along with the lack of caps not much was learned at all from this tour, or indeed from Tblisi.

duckysauce

.ak wrote: »

This game worth watching?

where can it be viewed ?

trouttrout

Niallof9 wrote: »

IMO, no.

I think some of the suggestion/evidence of a new era etc is actually bs.

This was Kiss, Smal and Foley (the ghost of Kidney). Kiss effectively admitted that he told Madigan to not overplay his hand, i.e. not express himself. Schmidt took training last week but no hand in gameplan etc.

Ireland were very poor for long stretches of this match. Nine of the Canadian team were amateur. Along with the lack of caps not much was learned at all from this tour, or indeed from Tblisi.

Where is this coming from?

very cynical view of what was a good win

And it certainly wasn't the ghost of Kidney. That was all over last weeks game plan but this week it was a lot more expansive and a lot more link play

Piliger

Niallof9 wrote: »

Ireland were very poor for long stretches of this match. Nine of the Canadian team were amateur. Along with the lack of caps not much was learned at all from this tour, or indeed from Tblisi.

We were indeed poor for long stretches. But I think there is a lot to be learned. We learned that we continue to have a serious dearth of leadership on the field for a start - and there is little sign of that improving.
We learned that many of the experienced players are still in the mental doldrums after the 6N and really need a new manager/coach to kick them out of it and offer some real inspiration.
We learned that McFadden continues to play a largely head down game and is imho not a dangerous player at the top level. And we learned that Trimble is in terrible form right now. We also learned that we have excellent depth at scrum half and out half.
These two games were a real physical test for the new lads and an opportunity for the older heads to prove their 6N let down was history. Unfortunately many of them failed to prove any such thing.

trouttrout

Piliger wrote: »

We were indeed poor for long stretches. But I think there is a lot to be learned. We learned that we continue to have a serious dearth of leadership on the field for a start - and there is little sign of that improving.
We learned that many of the experienced players are still in the mental doldrums after the 6N and really need a new manager/coach to kick them out of it and offer some real inspiration.
We learned that McFadden continues to play a largely head down game and is imho not a dangerous player at the top level. And we learned that Trimble is in terrible form right now. We also learned that we have excellent depth at scrum half and out half.
These two games were a real physical test for the new lads and an opportunity for the older heads to prove their 6N let down was history. Unfortunately many of them failed to prove any such thing.

Basically everything in the above post is incorrect, but the highlighted takes the biscuit