Canada vs Ireland, 12:40, TG4

Chabals Beard

Foxtrol wrote: »

Being a bit hypocritical there, you liked the post that I quoted that clearly implied that this was some sort of tirade against POM like poor ROG and Deccie.

Its clear posters prefer different styles of captain. There's no need for posters to start circling the wagons.

Why is it you ALWAYS bring up provincial "bias" when anyone defends or supports a player that plays for their provincial team????? Would it blow your mind if I said Touhy and Marshall played well??

trouttrout

Also, most people forget that POM is only 23, he clearly has a lot to learn about the game and honing his captaincy skills is obviously one of them

33theman33

Grimebox wrote: »

HOw come all your posts have links to dodgy software at the bottom of them?

Friends dodgy laptop, apologies please ignore them.

Grimebox

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Why is it you ALWAYS bring up provincial "bias" when anyone defends or supports a player that plays for their provincial team????? Would it blow your mind if I said Touhy and Marshall played well??

In fairness, there was no need to bring up ROG or Kidney in the first place

shuffol

trouttrout wrote: »

I liked it because I thought it was ridiculous to say that you would be embarrassed by POM last night, complete exaggeration imo

I myself think it would get him in trouble with a diff ref but don't see it as an issue because he's not going to be an Ireland captain for a few years

I dont like seeing a captain frequently escalating nothing instances in a game, whats wrong with that, if that was the English or Welsh captain behaving like that I'd love to hear your opinion of him, whether he gets penalised or not isnt the issue.

trouttrout

shuffol wrote: »

I dont like seeing a captain frequently escalating nothing instances in a game, whats wrong with that, if that was the English or Welsh captain behaving like that I'd love to hear your opinion of him, whether he gets penalised or not isnt the issue.

I agree with you tbh, just think embarrassed is a bit OTT

It could be an issue if he starts doing it in a few years when I expect he will be Munster captain

shuffol

trouttrout wrote: »

Also, most people forget that POM is only 23, he clearly has a lot to learn about the game and honing his captaincy skills is obviously one of them

Agreed, there's lots to admire about how he plays, he'll make an excellent captain some day.

Foxtrol

trouttrout wrote: »

I liked it because I thought it was ridiculous to say that you would be embarrassed by POM last night, complete exaggeration imo

I myself think it would get him in trouble with a diff ref but don't see it as an issue because he's not going to be an Ireland captain for a few years

Well the rest of that post was clearly implying bias, an agenda and generally stirring things so a good poster like you shouldn't be giving it any kudos.

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much as after the previous discussions about Heaslip captaincy it seems that when it comes to Irish captains outside of BOD/POC posters become very easy to embarrass.

Chabals Beard

Grimebox wrote: »

In fairness, there was no need to bring up ROG or Kidney in the first place

That wasn't me, I didn't even see that post. I was just responding to a indirect jab at me defending POM. This is not the first time Foxtrol has spouted this kind of rubbish...

Obviously since I am not defending a Leinster man I must be biased.









:P

Grimebox

33theman33 wrote: »

Friends dodgy laptop, apologies please ignore them.

Download and run this: http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/Spybot-Search-Destroy/1043809773/1

Should remove any malware

shuffol

trouttrout wrote: »

I agree with you tbh, just think embarrassed is a bit OTT

It could be an issue if he starts doing it in a few years when I expect he will be Munster captain

shuffol wrote: »

Personally I find it a bit embarrassing to see your captain frequently getting involved in handbags.

Foxtrol

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Why is it you ALWAYS bring up provincial "bias" when anyone defends or supports a player that plays for their provincial team????? Would it blow your mind if I said Touhy and Marshall played well??

Did you even read the post I quoted?

They were stating that there's some new agenda against POM like poor ROG and Deccie in the past.

Some posters don't like their captain getting into as much agro as POM did last night, equating it to both the legitimate and over the top questioning of ROG and Deccie over the years is laughable. Get over it.

irishbucsfan

I'm a long way from being a Munster fan and I often criticise POM but I think it is ridiculous to say that POM was embarrassing last night.

I thought it was an excellent display both as captain and as a number 8 and I hope he can play at that level against teams of a higher standard.

Chabals Beard

Foxtrol wrote: »

Did you even read the post I quoted?

They were stating that there's some new agenda against POM like poor ROG and Deccie in the past.

Some posters don't like their captain getting into as much agro as POM did last night, equating it to both the legitimate and over the top questioning of ROG over the years is laughable. Get over it.

I was responding to the your idea of people defending their players as tiresome.. I have no connection with that ROG debate seeing as it has no place on this thread, I took your comment as a jab at me defending POM's performance last night. If it wasn't I apologize. But if it was, I don't see the issue with my comment. Would it be any different if I was from the Isle of Man? IMO it isn't.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

By keeping a lid on things you can only mean not punching someone's head off, because POM basically did everything but that. Keeping a lid on things would be if he stepped back and let the officials deal with things. POM didn't keep a lid on things. In fact he got quite emotional and confrontational.

To suggest that he should be congratulated for his behaviour is embarrassing. Would you rather people on hear spoke in admiration of how mentally strong Peter was for not lamping every Canadian on the field? Rein it in. It's not as though the Canadians were playing dirty. Other than the boot from the scrum-half, which was a tickle compared to what some of our guys have done this season, the Canadian's foul play was restricted to infringements such as not rolling away or not releasing the tackled player etc. There was nothing thuggish about their play last night.

How often do you see Richie McCaw get wound up in a game, and he's often targeted by other teams to a thuggish degree. The answer is very rarely if ever. It's the same as always on this forum. It's either too sweet or too sour. There's people saying POM shouldn't captain Ireland again, and then there's people like you think he should be congratulated for his behaviour last night.

There is nothing wrong with being confrontational & emotional. Most coaches would rate it highly I'd guess as long as its kept under control (which it was) Richie McCaw had Brad Thorn and a few others like the refs looking out for him. Dev Toner is no Brad Thorn.

Foxtrol

On the point itself, this is what I posted during the USA game:

Foxtrol wrote: »

Think POM is a much better player when he's keeping his head rather than trying to be niggly at every opportunity. Shown great control at scrum time as well.

I honestly think POM has been very lucky during his career not to have penalties against him or reversed due to the niggle in his game. I know you could say he knows the line/plays the referee brilliantly but there's been a number of occasions that I've watched him do things that on a different day would have cost his side. He's going to be a great player but I think as his profile increases and if he long term captains for Munster and Ireland I don't think he'll get away with the stuff he's getting away with now.

donfers

Foxtrol wrote: »

This defensiveness/preciousness from certain posters over saying anything that isn't solely positive about everything related to Munster is seriously getting tiresome.

If you ever said anything remotely positive about munster your point might have more credence

on the game itself we were fortunate to win by such a margin although it was a slight improvement on the poor show against the US

it's slightly worrying that if we had been short of just 3 players in ross, pom and madigan we could well have lost one of these games

trouttrout

jm08 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with being confrontational & emotional. Most coaches would rate it highly I'd guess as long as its kept under control (which it was) Richie McCaw had Brad Thorn and a few others like the refs looking out for him. Dev Toner is no Brad Thorn.

ffs, what a load of ****e

So the reason POM gets involved in handbags is because he can't afford to ignore it because Toner is too soft to stick up for him? Your posts are just beyond ridiculous

Fireball07

Hurray, another thread descending into crap.


And we won with a pretty good performance and all.

Chabals Beard

Foxtrol wrote: »

On the point itself, this is what I posted during the USA game:



I honestly think POM has been very lucky during his career not to have penalties against him or reversed due to the niggle in his game. I know you could say he knows the line/plays the referee brilliantly but there's been a number of occasions that I've watched him do things that on a different day would have cost his side. He's going to be a great player but I think as his profile increases and if he long term captains for Munster and Ireland I don't think he'll get away with the stuff he's getting away with now.

You could also say a player like McCaw was extremely lucky to get away with half the stuff he did. And I thought as the game progressed and POM more aggressive he played better.

Podge_irl

Foxtrol wrote: »

I honestly think POM has been very lucky during his career not to have penalties against him or reversed due to the niggle in his game. I know you could say he knows the line/plays the referee brilliantly but there's been a number of occasions that I've watched him do things that on a different day would have cost his side. He's going to be a great player but I think as his profile increases and if he long term captains for Munster and Ireland I don't think he'll get away with the stuff he's getting away with now.

But I suppose the main counterargument is that it never has cost his side so why would he stop now? Maybe if he started getting penalised for it he would change his game.

trouttrout

donfers wrote: »

If you ever said anything remotely positive about munster your point might have more credence

on the game itself we were fortunate to win by such a margin although it was a slight improvement on the poor show against the US

it's slightly worrying that if we had been short of just 3 players in ross, pom and madigan we could well have lost one of these games

I don't think Ross is important to Ireland as he was 12 months ago. He's regressed this season while Hagan and Archer have improved immensely. Fitzpatrick would have been more than capable of playing a full test and really should have gotten a start

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Did you even read the post I quoted?

They were stating that there's some new agenda against POM like poor ROG and Deccie in the past.

Some posters don't like their captain getting into as much agro as POM did last night, equating it to both the legitimate and over the top questioning of ROG and Deccie over the years is laughable. Get over it.

Some of the greatest captains (Willie John McBride & Martin Johnson for example) were not afraid of a bit of agro

Chabals Beard

trouttrout wrote: »

I don't think Ross is important to Ireland as he was 12 months ago. He's regressed this season while Hagan and Archer have improved immensely. Fitzpatrick would have been more than capable of playing a full test and really should have gotten a start

Archer has a looooooooong way to go yet though if he ever wants to reach that level.

Foxtrol

Chabals Beard wrote: »

I was responding to the your idea of people defending their players as tiresome.. I have no connection with that ROG debate seeing as it has no place on this thread, I took your comment as a jab at me defending POM's performance last night. If it wasn't I apologize. But if it was, I don't see the issue with my comment. Would it be any different if I was from the Isle of Man? IMO it isn't.

I've no problem with posters defending a player's performance if that what they believe and it wasn't a jab at anyone who was doing that as far as POM goes, just like posters shouldn't be making them against those who think POM was OTT last night.

My post however was a bit of a jab at what to me looked like twinytwo bringing ROG and Deccie into things to try to stoke up the hysteria of preciousness we saw on the Munster thread the other day (which I still think is ridiculous but obviously not for this thread).

Deliverance XXV

I like POM's intensity and aggressive stance. I don't think he'd be half the player without it. With regards to this morning's match - it was only a bit of pushing and shoving. If POM was going to retaliate against their SH for the stamp he wouldn't have shoved him 3/4 times first. Handbags.

I thought Toner did well. McFadden is a solid back, pumps the legs with fast and straight lines. He is always very useful to have in the squad, especially with his kicking abilities.

trouttrout

Chabals Beard wrote: »

Archer has a looooooooong way to go yet though if he ever wants to reach that level.

I agree but my point is that Ross ain't the only TH in the village anymore. I rate a fit Dec Fitz higher and I think Hagan will be more or less on a par with him next season if his progression continues. Archer a bit more to go

Foxtrol

Chabals Beard wrote: »

You could also say a player like McCaw was extremely lucky to get away with half the stuff he did. And I thought as the game progressed and POM more aggressive he played better.

True on McCaw but what he does is normally on the subtle end of things (ie at the bottom of a ruck), the stuff that POM was getting involved in was far from it. Dont think you can make that comparison.

Podge_irl

trouttrout wrote: »

I don't think Ross is important to Ireland as he was 12 months ago. He's regressed this season while Hagan and Archer have improved immensely. Fitzpatrick would have been more than capable of playing a full test and really should have gotten a start

Fitzpatrick didn't do amazingly when he came on last night though. Plus he's made of ****ing glass. Hagan has certainly looked like he might be able to step up based on his form for Leinster this season, but I wouldn't be proclaiming him ready for international rugby just yet. Definitely think he'll be the bench TH next season though if he keeps this form up. Archer has certainly improved a lot, but he was coming from such a low base that he's still miles away from HEC level, never mind international level. Ross is still vital for the next 12 months I think.

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with being confrontational & emotional.

I agree, but it's the nature of both that's in question. Confrontation can be a wonderful thing, and it has it's place in rugby. I just think that Peter can take it a little over the line at times. By all means get in the opposition's face, but if your face is contorting whilst turning bright red and your clamped on to the opposition's collar whilst several other players are trying to drag you off, it can appear as unsatisfactory behaviour in the eyes of the official. Paul O'Connell is no stranger to confrontation, but I doubt I'll see the day where a referee has to tell O'Connell to set an example, if you see my point.

Emotion too has it's place on the field. It's only natural for players to get emotional when they are representing their country, but it's also important to maintain your focus and not to let the opposition get under you skin. We've often criticised Ben Youngs for his habit of "loosing his cool". Last night the Canadian 13 adopted the mentality of a 9 year old and taunted at O'Mahony saying "What? I can't hear you?", and it was visibly agitating O'Mahony.

Most coaches would rate it highly I'd guess as long as its kept under control (which it was)

Well that's the matter in question. I believe that if the referee has to tell you to set an example three times in match on three separate occasions, then perhaps it hasn't been kept completely under control.

Richie McCaw had Brad Thorn and a few others like the refs looking out for him. Dev Toner is no Brad Thorn.

I think even you can agree with me when I say that if O'Mahony had 14 teammates all in the Brad Thorn mould, it still wouldn't stop him being in the middle of any handbags. Perhaps Sir Richie McCaw had the refs looking out for him, because when he was on the receiving end of a cheap shot, he was looking out for the ref, and not losing his cool.

Like I said, POM usually stays on the right side of the line, and it's a non issue when he's not captain. But I think that last night was a lesson that perhaps it needs to be reined when he does have the captain duties. Canada may well have seen a yellow if Peter had been more concerned with communicating his grievances with the referee rather than with the opposition players.