Extermination through sterilisation - the solution to "skangerism"

antopanto

Every week we here storeys about scumbags attacking decent folk, like that old age pensioner who suffered from alzeimers. This scumbag got into her house, snatched her necklace and wedding rings from her, and anything else he could rob. Here is the punch line, he had over 20 previous convictions, which would indicate that he is a serial offender. This poor old lady died soon after this incident. Many Serial Offenders do it for the buzz, and only stop at an age, when they can no longer face prison (in their 50's). They should bring out a Serial Offenders Act, where by an offender who show's serial behaviour with no little/chance of rehabilitation, should be locked up, until they reach 50 years, that way the decent people in society are protected, before the behaviour of the serial offender starts to turn nasty.

There has also been a recent increase in this social behaviour which could be linked with youth unemployment, if the government had a policy of generating employment, young people would be less likely drift into anti social behaviour. From this point of view big business, bankers and high wealth individuals are to blame, as their tax evasion, and low tax rates, and bank/bond holder bailouts, has resulted in a shrinkage of the economy, and less funds being made available to generate employment, and essential services needed by our communities.

Handsome Bob

antopanto wrote: »

Every week we here storeys about scumbags attacking decent folk, like that old age pensioner who suffered from alzeimers. This scumbag got into her house, snatched her necklace and wedding rings from her, and anything else he could rob. Here is the punch line, he had over 20 previous convictions, which would indicate that he is a serial offender. This poor old lady died soon after this incident. Many Serial Offenders do it for the buzz, and only stop at an age, when they can no longer face prison (in their 50's). They should bring out a Serial Offenders Act, where by an offender who show's serial behaviour with no little/chance of rehabilitation, should be locked up, until they reach 50 years, that way the decent people in society are protected, before the behaviour of the serial offender starts to turn nasty.

There has also been a recent increase in this social behaviour which could be linked with youth unemployment, if the government had a policy of generating employment, young people would be less likely drift into anti social behaviour. From this point of view big business, bankers and high wealth individuals are to blame, as their tax evasion, and low tax rates, and bank/bond holder bailouts, has resulted in a shrinkage of the economy, and less funds being made available to generate employment, and essential services needed by our communities.

If we're talking purely in criminal terms, then I have to say that I'd disagree. Age on its own does not stop a scumbag; they might just get "cuter" about what activity they engage in or in the risks that they decide to not take on (and in turn delegate to younger, more impressionable, people).

karma_

SeanW wrote: »

You're absolutely right; rats may be ugly disease carrying vermin, but they act out of pure animal instinct rather than malice. They have the excuse that their brains are the size of a pea, and whats more noone complains when you put down rat poison.

Scumbags on the other hand act out of pure malice and act like feral vermin because they may know better, but choose to be scumbags. Also for many of them, society has to give them free housing and pocket money as a reward for being like feral animals because even if they wanted a job, noone in their right mind would hire them.

So yes, comparing scumbags to rats is indeed very shocking. It's an undue insult to rats!

I find the opinion you and others are peddling to be absolutely abhorrent. See, we tend to think of people like the Nazis to be evil but the truth is they are not. They were people like those you pass on the street every day and all the motivation most of them would need to cut your throat would be an authority figure telling them to do so.

Step back and actually consider what your talking about here, the extermination and an entire 'class' of people. Sure to take that line to it's natural conclusion why don;t we build the gas chambers now and ease the unemployment queue while we're at it?

We live with the illusion of safety in society and most never realise just how quick, with the right set of circumstances people who think like you could get into power. A sobering thought.

Grand Moff Tarkin

old hippy wrote: »

Don't sit on the fence, tell us how you really feel.

Natural selection can only take you so far until you get to a point where the certain bad elements need to be removed for the good of society in general.

Seachmall

karma_ wrote: »

Step back and actually consider what your talking about here, the extermination and an entire 'class' of people.

The 'class' of people he is suggesting be exterminated (scumbags) are the same class of people our legal system attempts to imprison. Does that make the legal system Nazi-esque?

A scumbag is, at least by my definition, a criminal. They engage in antisocial behaviour routinely. They harass, intimidate, vandalise, rob and otherwise act in a way most of us agree to be unacceptable. Hence, we have criminalised those actions.

We're not talking about one-off offenders here either, we're talking about those who have absolutely no regard for the welfare of others and no want to rehabilitate.

Nobody is suggesting a genocide, more correctly it would be capital punishment for those that disregard the law as a matter of course and are incapable of changing their ways.

As is, the legal system seems to determine the punishment of a crime depending solely on the crime itself, it fails to recognise the offenders history and it fails to extrapolate from their history the likelihood of reoffending. It seems silly to take someone off the streets and then put them back only having to take them off the streets again. We give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to rehabilitation but the fact of the matter is some people have proven again and again that they are not worthy of that benefit.

If you fail to adhere to the laws of a society you should lose your right to exist in that society. And unfortunately Australia isn't taking convicts anymore.

karma_

Seachmall wrote: »

If you fail to adhere to the laws of a society you should lose your right to exist in that society. And unfortunately Australia isn't taking convicts anymore.

Fascist nonsense.

Seachmall

karma_ wrote: »

Fascist nonsense.

It's not. It's the reason we lock people up.

Rehabilitation clearly doesn't work so instead we just remove them from society for some arbitrary amount of time.

And many countries revoke passports and citizenships for certain crimes (such as treason), and many clubs and schools kick members out for not adhering to codes of conduct. Are they fascists?

Handsome Bob

Seachmall wrote: »

It's not. It's the reason we lock people up.

Rehabilitation clearly doesn't work so instead we just remove them from society for some arbitrary amount of time.

And many countries revoke passports and citizenships for certain crimes (such as treason), and many clubs and schools kick members out for not adhering to codes of conduct. Are they fascists?

Not sure how you can make such a defacto statement like that. It clearly does work for some people, maybe for not as many as you'd like mind.

Seachmall

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Not sure how you can make such a defacto statement like that. It clearly does work for some people, maybe for not as many as you'd like mind.

Well how many people does it need to rehabilitate to be considered working?

100%? 90%? 80%? 40%?

SeanW

karma_ wrote: »

I find the opinion you and others are peddling to be absolutely abhorrent. See, we tend to think of people like the Nazis to be evil but the truth is they are not. They were people like those you pass on the street every day and all the motivation most of them would need to cut your throat would be an authority figure telling them to do so.

Step back and actually consider what your talking about here, the extermination and an entire 'class' of people. Sure to take that line to it's natural conclusion why don;t we build the gas chambers now and ease the unemployment queue while we're at it?

It's got nothing to do with "class" anyone can be a scumbag, like the "lads in suits that would urinate on a homeless person" above. It just so happens that many of them (for obvious reasons) couldn't get a job even if they wanted one, so they get dole and housing. But given the warning of "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" (After it, therefore because of it) you can't equate scumbag-ness with poverty or use of social welfare.

We live with the illusion of safety in society and most never realise just how quick, with the right set of circumstances people who think like you could get into power. A sobering thought.

If you live in some parts of Ireland, e.g. Limerick, Ennis, parts of Dublin etc, your "illusion of safety" doesn't exist for its people because all they know is fear, abuse and intimidation. I was watching one program about anti social behaviour in a public housing estate in Limerick and there was a couple who had aged the equivalent of 30/40 years inside of a decade because of the abject misery that scumbags had caused them.

karma_ wrote: »

Fascist nonsense.

There is nothing fascist about it. Everyone has the right to live their lives free and clear as they see fit PROVIDED that they respect those same rights of everyone else. If you don't respect the rights of others, your own are taken away, such as the right to freedom via prison, or other means desperately needed to protect other people. Problem: the current system is incapable of this in many cases which is why we have so many scumbags out there getting more violent after 20, 50, 100 or more convictions (assuming each crime results in a conviction, which doesn't seem likely). And our social systems allow the problem to get worse each generation because of the number of people having children they don't raise.

And again, I'm not saying sterilise these people per-se, but rather I want those dogmatically opposed to the idea to propose something that deals with the scumbag problem. An alternative.

steddyeddy

You see the problem I have with some of the views in this thread is they don't seem to be aimed at career criminals. Several people are juding people who have a certain "look" as worthy of extermination.

Handsome Bob

Seachmall wrote: »

Well how many people does it need to rehabilitate to be considered working?

100%? 90%? 80%? 40%?

You can't measure the success of rehabilitation centres in percentages.

For one, how do you measure success? If I use addiction services as an example, would you define success as someone completing their programme? Or if they stay sober/clean for 6 months to a year?

What about someone who stays clean/sober for 2 years+ but then suffers a relapse? Would you deem that as a failure of the rehabilitation programme?

WinnyThePoo

old hippy

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Natural selection can only take you so far until you get to a point where the certain bad elements need to be removed for the good of society in general.

I think you and your ilk need to be monitored and infiltrated to stop the spread of your facist ideas.

Your opinions certainly don't represent the "good of society", in fact, you and your cohorts are coming across as the real bad elements in this discussion.

allibastor

kylith wrote: »

In theory eugenics is a good idea... In theory.

it did make kahn in star trek, and look how well he turned out

Grand Moff Tarkin

old hippy wrote: »

I think you and your ilk need to be monitored and infiltrated to stop the spread of your facist ideas.

Your opinions certainly don't represent the "good of society", in fact, you and your cohorts are coming across as the real bad elements in this discussion.

Sorry but I do believe my views do represent what is good for Irish society. As an example we have scumbags attacking emergency service workers and hospital staff and they get away with it without so much as a slap on the wrist. My own view is that people like that will never make an effort to better themselves or society so they should be removed from the gene pool by any and all means. The time for pussyfooting about is well past and people need to open their eyes to that fact.

Reekwind

SeanW wrote: »

And again, I'm not saying sterilise these people per-se, but rather I want those dogmatically opposed to the idea to propose something that deals with the scumbag problem. An alternative.

An alternative to what? The death of society through "skangerism"? 'Race suicide'? I mean, to hear you and the likes talking, the whole island is about to be overrun by a whole horde of crazed recidivists

There is no problem here that cannot be handled by existing judicial frameworks. Certainly there is no justification for mass sterilisation on the basis that there is a 'skanger gene'

AlekSmart

Reekwind wrote: »

An alternative to what? The death of society through "skangerism"? 'Race suicide'? I mean, to hear you and the likes talking, the whole island is about to be overrun by a whole horde of crazed recidivists

There is no problem here that cannot be handled by existing judicial frameworks. Certainly there is no justification for mass sterilisation on the basis that there is a 'skanger gene'

It's interesting that Reekwind uses the term recidivist,which I believe is somewhat more accurate than "Skanger" as a description for the likes of these....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rescuers-are-attacked-while-trying-to-save-drowning-man-29334522.html

From the various accounts at the scene of the drowning and at the Hospital,this was a substantial group of people,not just a few knuckle-draggers.

I would suggest to Reekwind,that had they been either a member of the responders to this man's difficulties or had they been a member of hospital staff,then yes,your own little Island of existance was overrun by recidivists.

I remain significantly unsure that any of our "existing Judicial Frameworks" are even capable of recognising the levels of teror these missing-links are capable of inflicting on innocent people,let alone "handling it.

Reekwind

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would suggest to Reekwind,that had they been either a member of the responders to this man's difficulties or had they been a member of hospital staff,then yes,your own little Island of existance was overrun by recidivists

I was once ripped off by a taxi driver. Clearly all taxi drivers must be rounded into camps and worked to death, right?

And, for the record, my use of the term 'recidivist' was in response to SeanW's "scumbags getting more violent after 20, 50, 100 or more convictions" (which is laughable in itself). Unless I've missed something, there's nothing in that article that you linked to suggesting that the youths in question were recidivist

I remain significantly unsure that any of our "existing Judicial Frameworks" are even capable of recognising the levels of teror these missing-links are capable of inflicting on innocent people,let alone "handling it.

Well that's because your idea of an adequate response is to sterlise people. I'd hazard that most people (going on the assumption that this thread is not indicative of popular opinion, else we'd all be dressing in brown shirts and saluting Enda) are quite happy with the notion of fitting the punishment to the crime

But then the whole notion that vast tracks of this island are being terrorised on a daily basis by a network of evolutionary throwbacks while the State turns a blind eye is in itself absurd

AlekSmart

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Not sure how you can make such a defacto statement like that. It clearly does work for some people, maybe for not as many as you'd like mind.

Perhaps the greatest failing lies in the Irish interpretation of Rehabilitation as a concept.

Even a casual leaf through Court Reports will reveal a shockingly numerous amount of repeat offenders,some of a surprisingly young age.

Further probing will reveal that these offenders will generally have had significant interaction with the Dept of Justice's Probation and Welfare services.

Now,given that the cost of providing these services continues to escalate,and that these costs are largely funded by the taxes of law abiding,peaceful non-criminally inclined citizens who comprise the fodder for the recidivists,the questioning of the Rehabilitation principle is pretty much understandable.

Reading of semi-deranged violent young people rocking up to a Judge on their 50th charge,and yet again being soft-touched following the pleading of a silver-tongued Barrister (Paid for most likely,also by the victim) is simply destroying any possibility of widespread understanding or acceptance of the Rehabilitation principle.

A significant chunk of surly young "entitled" people have managed to successfully checkmate our systems of administering justice.

Unfortunately,dragging these systems back into any form of fitness for purpose now entails some of the long-term return clients now being forcibly ejected from the system...and that brings with it some extra risks.

However,if we prefer to deny the existence of the problem then any solution,final or otherwise,will never materialize.

AlekSmart

Reekwind wrote: »

I was once ripped off by a taxi driver. Clearly all taxi drivers must be rounded into camps and worked to death, right?

No,not really,but devising some method of identifying and seperating those Taxi Drivers readily prepared to gouge customers,allows at least some chance of reducing the numbers of gouging Taxi Drivers.
The result is good for both Customers AND those Taxi Drivers who choose not to go-native.

And, for the record, my use of the term 'recidivist' was in response to SeanW's "scumbags getting more violent after 20, 50, 100 or more convictions" (which is laughable in itself). Unless I've missed something, there's nothing in that article that you linked to suggesting that the youths in question were recidivist

I'm unsure here as to whether your problem is with the actual notion of the escalation of criminality levels as the inability of the State to successfully punish it becomes apparent,or simply with people who are'nt quite so prepared to excuse thuggery of itself ?

Reading from the article....

"Members came under attack at the scene – there were a lot of drunken people there who have previous criminal issues and they attacked the crews as they tried to save the man.

...I would be confident that,if or when,the incidents come to Court we will,yet again,see an all too familiar scenario.

Well that's because your idea of an adequate response is to sterlise people. I'd hazard that most people (going on the assumption that this thread is not indicative of popular opinion, else we'd all be dressing in brown shirts and saluting Enda) are quite happy with the notion of fitting the punishment to the crime

But then the whole notion that vast tracks of this island are being terrorised on a daily basis by a network of evolutionary throwbacks while the State turns a blind eye is in itself absurd

Sadly I can't quite fit your pre-formed social template,as I don't actually see forced sterilization as feasible or desirable.

However,in the absence of any successful,affordable and easily administered responses,the notion of voluntary non-reproduction might well be worth mulling over.

Your description of Evolutionary Throwbacks,roaming unchallenged across vast-tracks of the land,is,for those unlucky enough to live in some of those targeted areas,spot-on-the-money accurate.

Sadly however,an 80 year old victim,living alone will receive far less assistance from the State than their attacker will upon conviction.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/two-pensioner-brothers-attacked-by-thugs-at-home-26862645.html

In your preferred societal structure is there a limit,self imposed or otherwise,that could be deemed to act as a trigger for punishment as opposed to rehabilitation ?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/brothers-jailed-for-27-years-for-the-murder-of-elderly-man-60422.html

The court heard that John Doyle was previously convicted of stabbing an 84-year-old man to death in Dublin in 1984. He was also convicted of the burglary of an elderly couple in England - an offence that happened after the killing of Mr Logan.

Christopher Doyle also has lengthy convictions for violent crimes, including that of beating an elderly spinster after he broke into the bedroom of her home in England.

Also possibly of some relevance to the thread is this...

The court heard that both defendants were heroin users. Between them, they have 13 children.

Quite obviously I'm not at one with Reekwind on any of this,however neither do I fully accept Sterilization as being any sort of "Solution"...but I sure don't regard the present facilitation of recidivism as any better !

Handsome Bob

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps the greatest failing lies in the Irish interpretation of Rehabilitation as a concept.

Even a casual leaf through Court Reports will reveal a shockingly numerous amount of repeat offenders,some of a surprisingly young age.

Further probing will reveal that these offenders will generally have had significant interaction with the Dept of Justice's Probation and Welfare services.

Now,given that the cost of providing these services continues to escalate,and that these costs are largely funded by the taxes of law abiding,peaceful non-criminally inclined citizens who comprise the fodder for the recidivists,the questioning of the Rehabilitation principle is pretty much understandable.

Reading of semi-deranged violent young people rocking up to a Judge on their 50th charge,and yet again being soft-touched following the pleading of a silver-tongued Barrister (Paid for most likely,also by the victim) is simply destroying any possibility of widespread understanding or acceptance of the Rehabilitation principle.

A significant chunk of surly young "entitled" people have managed to successfully checkmate our systems of administering justice.

Unfortunately,dragging these systems back into any form of fitness for purpose now entails some of the long-term return clients now being forcibly ejected from the system...and that brings with it some extra risks.

However,if we prefer to deny the existence of the problem then any solution,final or otherwise,will never materialize.

You are right, there are many repeat offenders unfortunately. In terms of rehab, it's not out of the ordinary for someone to have gone through the process 6 or 7 times before they get it right (and even then there's no guarantee that someone will stay sober/clean/on the straight and narrow for the rest of their life).

scamalert

reminds me one of a time in court,where this scum was being charged for robbing woman's purse while driving by in a car,and dragging her couple feet trough concrete.So judge looks at guys criminal record and he had over 100 offenses ($hit you not) at age of 25 :cool:
Clearly law system nor some rehab centers ,dont work at all in this country.Where such trash with triple number offenses still walk on the streets,and yet for the crime they do its year or two in prison before they get skills to commit fatal crimes.

karma_

scamalert wrote: »

reminds me one of a time in court,where this scum was being charged for robbing woman's purse while driving by in a car,and dragging her couple feet trough concrete.So judge looks at guys criminal record and he had over 100 offenses ($hit you not) at age of 25 :cool:
Clearly law system nor some rehab centers ,dont work at all in this country.Where such trash with triple number offenses still walk on the streets,and yet for the crime they do its year or two in prison before they get skills to commit fatal crimes.

Let's approach this logically for a second.

You say the Laws are not working... fine not too controversial an opinion to harbour.

Here's a simple solution, let's fix the damn laws instead of drawing up plans for a mass sterilisation/final solution.

Holy fúck like, the amount of posters who seemingly back this notion is absolutely fúcking terrifying.

old hippy

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Sorry but I do believe my views do represent what is good for Irish society. As an example we have scumbags attacking emergency service workers and hospital staff and they get away with it without so much as a slap on the wrist. My own view is that people like that will never make an effort to better themselves or society so they should be removed from the gene pool by any and all means. The time for pussyfooting about is well past and people need to open their eyes to that fact.

I'm telling you, you don't represent Irish society with that view. Germany in the 30s, perhaps but not in this day and age.

You have opened my eyes (and others, I'm sure) as to the fact that there are some people with very dangerous views at large. We shall be keeping an eye on you, fear not.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps the (.......) materialize.

There is no serious rehabilitation programme in this country and never has been. This has been pointed out time and time again. Perhaps educating yourself with the basics might be in order...

Nodin

allibastor wrote: »

it did make kahn in star trek, and look how well he turned out

Ended up playing Sherlock Holmes on the beeb apparently.

VinLieger

How about bringing back chain gangs? Making them dig ditches on roads pick up trash etc?

Nodin

VinLieger wrote: »

How about bringing back chain gangs? Making them dig ditches on roads pick up trash etc?

...and thereby put the ditchdiggers and trash picker-uppers out of a job.

donegal.

did that mad whore in india not try mass sterilization ? can't remember the details, how did it turn out ?