Hurling Championship 2013

jj1

Martin567 wrote: »

In your dreams! In his 15th year with Kilkenny, this is only the 3rd year Henry will not be in an All Ireland. It's only the 2nd time for Tommy.

Some team in fairness. Still think there might have been a few years where they could have been caught if Leinster was stronger. Still the best team I'm ever likely to see. Shefflin is pure class & Walsh & Delaney are unbelievble. People always give out about KK playing over the limit but you need that edge.

Anyway they're gone for this year. From a Limerick POV, I think it's 50-50 between ourselves & Clare. Like everyone I thought Clare had bags of potential but only really showed a couple of glimpses against Waterford & Wexford. I think they showed a bit more the other day. I think it'll be a great game & Limerick will win with a dodge "careyesque" point in the last minute. Really think this could be Limerick's year. People seemed to have underestimated Limerick due to the Horgan sending off.

Martin567

Chinpool wrote: »

Christ even when KK and Tipp are out of the championship the threads still about them :pac:

You're right, getting carried away here. No reason to be discussing Kilkenny or Tipp on this thread any longer.

I would favour Dublin & Limerick for the final at this stage but it wouldn't be an enormous shock if it was Clare v Cork instead.

dzer2

Martin567 wrote: »

You're right, getting carried away here. No reason to be discussing Kilkenny or Tipp on this thread any longer.

I would favour Dublin & Limerick for the final at this stage but it wouldn't be an enormous shock if it was Clare v Cork instead.

When you are the benchmark its hard to get away from it.:D:D

Dampintheattic

realdanbreen wrote: »

Are you serious?
FFS all Tommy Walsh or King Henry had to do was tog out and they would get an all star!:cool:

Plus T Walsh, couldn't get sent off, no matter how hard he tried

If the championship refs, over the past decade, applied the rules, as fairly and as impartially, as was done in last Sunday's KK vs Cork game, KK wouldn't have near as many All Ireland's:pac:

eyescreamcone

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Plus T Walsh, couldn't get sent off, no matter how hard he tried

If the championship refs, over the past decade, applied the rules, as fairly and as impartially, as was done in last Sunday's KK vs Cork game, KK wouldn't have near as many All Ireland's:pac:

Or if Brennan senior had cut the grass for the 2006 final

All history now!

Rightwing

It would be interesting to do a poll now and see who people think the winners will be, I'd go for Cork. Wiped the floor with KK, and I suspect they'll do the same to Dub.

Realt Dearg Sec

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Plus T Walsh, couldn't get sent off, no matter how hard he tried

If the championship refs, over the past decade, applied the rules, as fairly and as impartially, as was done in last Sunday's KK vs Cork game, KK wouldn't have near as many All Ireland's:pac:

That sounds like loser talk. Presume you're from some loser county that wasn't good enough to beat KK and so you resort to loser talk.

(Before you respond, I happen to think anyone blaming the ref for KK losing on Sunday is also engaging in loser talk and they need to learn to take a beating).

Anyway, which All Irelands in particular do you think we wouldn't have won if only the refs had been reffing us "properly"? (Keeping in mind that you said we wouldn't have NEARLY as many) That's always a question I've wanted answered by folks like you. A competent answer would be nice, but I wont be holding my breath.

andyman

Rightwing wrote: »

It would be interesting to do a poll now and see who people think the winners will be, I'd go for Cork. Wiped the floor with KK, and I suspect they'll do the same to Dub.

Have you forgotten that Dublin also beat Kilkenny in the Championship this year?

Realt Dearg Sec

Rightwing wrote: »

It would be interesting to do a poll now and see who people think the winners will be, I'd go for Cork. Wiped the floor with KK, and I suspect they'll do the same to Dub.

I would be worried that they might do it. I'd really be happy enough with any of the other teams winning, be a nice change. But Dublin are a stronger team than KK this year and I suppose it depends to what extent their earlier form was dependent on momentum (they were woful in their first game against Wexford and could have been beaten). But the physicality and the intelligence of their forward play in particular has been remarkable, definitely the best of any team this year and on form they would be my favourites to win that semi.

My preference would be a Dublin V Limerick final, and my preference then would be a Dublin win. It so happens that's also what I predict to happen, but the Clare Limerick game in particular will have a life of its own that has little to do with rational analysis.

Rightwing

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I would be worried that they might do it. I'd really be happy enough with any of the other teams winning, be a nice change. But Dublin are a stronger team than KK this year and I suppose it depends to what extent their earlier form was dependent on momentum (they were woful in their first game against Wexford and could have been beaten). But the physicality and the intelligence of their forward play in particular has been remarkable, definitely the best of any team this year and on form they would be my favourites to win that semi.

My preference would be a Dublin V Limerick final, and my preference then would be a Dublin win. It so happens that's also what I predict to happen, but the Clare Limerick game in particular will have a life of its own that has little to do with rational analysis.

I'll be for Dublin too, but Cork will be too crafty for them. Dublin are mixed as you say. This is the game that will tell us where they are at.

Lennonist

Wide open championship, difficult to predict who will win out. As long as it's not Cork I would be happy for any of the others to win simply because they haven't won a lot of All-Irelands between them. Would be disappointing in a year that has promised much change and a much needed breath of fresh air to the game, that one of the 3 traditional powers would still end up prevailing. Fancy Limerick slightly to win it out.

Hidalgo

Limerick V Dublin final for me (I hope I'm wrong). Very difficult to call as Cork and Clare have the momentum via qualifiers after the disappointment of losing out in Munster.

For the 1st one, if Dublin can replicate the Leinster final performance they'll be hard beaten, then again we saw how poor Galway were yesterday.
Cork's dander will be up big time after beating KK.

In the 2nd game, Limerick have used their bench well V Tipp and Cork, esp the use of Dowling.
They have a physical advantage over Clare, the likes of Donal O Grady, James Ryan and their HB line.
Big decision for Clare is who to start at 6, Conor Ryan and use Donnellon to protect the inside line, or put Donnellon back in at 6 and try and shoehorn Ryan in somewhere else. Ryan brought a bit of strength that was badly needed.

Either game could take on a life of its own, I'll go for the 2 provincial champions to be still standing in September.

Martin567

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Plus T Walsh, couldn't get sent off, no matter how hard he tried

If the championship refs, over the past decade, applied the rules, as fairly and as impartially, as was done in last Sunday's KK vs Cork game, KK wouldn't have near as many All Ireland's:pac:

Your user name looks a little bit like "Pathetic" which just about sums up your comment above.

As I'm sure you're well aware, Sunday's refereeing performance was as far from impartial as it's possible to be. But it was just following a trend of refs refereeing Kilkenny but allowing the opposition to do whatever they wanted without fear of being held to the same rules.

Martin567

Rightwing wrote: »

It would be interesting to do a poll now and see who people think the winners will be, I'd go for Cork. Wiped the floor with KK, and I suspect they'll do the same to Dub.

Dublin were far more impressive against Kilkenny than Cork. Kilkenny found it difficult to create anything against Dublin and Dublin were the ones who missed quite a few frees.

Despite apparently being outplayed all over the field on Sunday, Kilkenny were the ones who had the most bad wides and who missed the goalscoring opportunities. Kilkenny certainly didn't deserve to win but if they had taken their chances they would have. Cork were actually very economical with their scoring chances and never threatened a goal all game.

Justin10

Would you lot give over, Dublin are rubbish.
There are just a squad of lads with loads of fitness and spend too much time in the gym.

They aint hurlers and have no skill, Cork by a cricket score.
Now run along and feed that to the cork boys playing next week

Rightwing

Martin567 wrote: »

Dublin were far more impressive against Kilkenny than Cork. Kilkenny found it difficult to creae anything against Dublin and Dublin were the ones who missed quite a few frees.

Despite apparently being outplayed all over the field on Sunday, Kilkenny were the ones who had the most bad wides and who missed the goalscoring opportunities. Kilkenny certainly didn't deserve to win but if they had taken their chances they would have. Cork were actually very economical with their scoring chances and never threatened a goal all game.

I agree with that, but, KK had no life left this time. They could afford to lose v dublin, they couldn't v Cork.

Martin567

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree with that, but, KK had no life left this time. They could afford to lose v dublin, they couldn't v Cork.

True but I think Kilkenny had even less in the legs against Cork than they had against Dublin after the epic battles against Tipp & Waterford over the last few weeks. I really wasn't that impressed with Cork on Sunday. They were certainly better than Kilkenny but we were quite poor and still had the chances to win. Dublin were absolutely outstanding against us.

Rightwing

Martin567 wrote: »

True but I think Kilkenny had even less in the legs against Cork than they had against Dublin after the epic battles against Tipp & Waterford over the last few weeks. I really wasn't that impressed with Cork on Sunday. They were certainly better than Kilkenny but we were quite poor and still had the chances to win. Dublin were absolutely outstanding against us.

Fair enough. But you do know you can't compare matches as a sort of reference.

Why not? I thought they were very good.

dastardly00

Rightwing wrote: »

It would be interesting to do a poll now and see who people think the winners will be, I'd go for Cork. Wiped the floor with KK, and I suspect they'll do the same to Dub.

Cork wiped the floor with KK???

Cork were the better team and deserved their win but they only won by 5 points, and they had a man advantage for over a half, and Cork didn't create any goal chances. Plus KK missed some very easy frees.

I think you are slightly getting carried away.

Mountainlad

Martin567 wrote: »

True but I think Kilkenny had even less in the legs against Cork than they had against Dublin after the epic battles against Tipp & Waterford over the last few weeks. I really wasn't that impressed with Cork on Sunday. They were certainly better than Kilkenny but we were quite poor and still had the chances to win. Dublin were absolutely outstanding against us.

Sometimes a week off can be a hinderance too. Tipp in 2007 (while they weren't world beaters) lost to Wexford having had a week break after playing 6 weeks in a row. I'd agree with what your saying, though I thinl there's more in Cork even. I like their forward line, but Luke O Farrell is not performing like he should and Lehane has been very poor. Other that that they've been very good, but if those to improve they could go all the way.

Dublin and Limerick haven't ahd to deal with the 5 week break. Always hard to deal with that. But Limerick have had hardly any games all year, and have coped well. That said, they were at home twice. I would say it could affect Dublin worse having seen how bad they were against Wexford, but there'll be confidence in them.

It's absolutely fascinating at this stage and you'd be mad to be surprised by any winner, which is truly incredible. In my opinion, being Leinster champs, having defeated Kilkenny and Galway and the fact they have played in Croke Park and won and now have two games there lead me to think that Dublin will win it. Never thought I'd be saying that this year even, never mind 5 or 6 years ago.

Martin567

Rightwing wrote: »

Fair enough. But you do know you can't compare matches as a sort of reference.

Why not? I thought they were very good.

Of course I know that. The five week break may not suit Dublin, Cork might go up a few notches, anything might happen. I'm not discounting Cork's chances at all, they could very well win. Just purely based on what I saw first hand against Kilkenny I think Dublin are by some distance the better team.

It doesn't make much sense that Cork were very good, Kilkenny were as poor as they have been for years playing 35 mins with 14 men and still Kilkenny had more than enough chances to win the game.

68Murph68

dastardly00 wrote: »

Cork were the better team and deserved their win but they only won by 5 points, and they had a man advantage for over a half, and Cork didn't create any goal chances. Plus KK missed some very easy frees.

I think some people are thinking Cork beat KK of 2/3/4/5 years ago as opposed to beating KK of 2013.

It's one thing to beat a team when they are giving a 7/8/9 out of 10 performance; a whole different kettle of fish to beat a team who produced a 2/3/4 out of 10 performance.

If I were a Cork supporter the fact that Cork didnt create any goal chances would be a major concern.

MOC88

Martin567 wrote: »

Dublin were far more impressive against Kilkenny than Cork. Kilkenny found it difficult to create anything against Dublin and Dublin were the ones who missed quite a few frees.

Despite apparently being outplayed all over the field on Sunday, Kilkenny were the ones who had the most bad wides and who missed the goalscoring opportunities. Kilkenny certainly didn't deserve to win but if they had taken their chances they would have. Cork were actually very economical with their scoring chances and never threatened a goal all game.

Kilkenny were much farther in to their season by the time they played Cork. The fact was that they didn't create because Cork gave them no chance to. Anytime they found space they pointed without too much trouble - there were two points in quick succession at one stage of the game when Kilkenny found space twice but Cork held their nerve and cut down the space again. They played out the game in the second half especially in the last 10 minutes where they were happy to give away frees. It always looked like Cork had an extra gear if they needed it and frankly they didn't because they've been a very underated team so far. Kilkenny could have won if they took all their chances but you ahrdly think the Cork team would have played the same way as they did for the remainder of the game if they had got a goal? Not a chance.

If Dublin show up and perform to absolute max it would be hard for the rest to catch them but they're also inclined to not show up on any given day. Clare have unbelievable fitness but their forward line can be cut out of the game with a good backline. Cork are only starting to have a settled team. Limerick are the wildcard of the bunch I think and given their manager I'd expect them to have the ability to pull it off.

Personally, I think all the teams have about an even chance to win it.

Annuv

Martin567 wrote: »

Of course I know that. The five week break may not suit Dublin, Cork might go up a few notches, anything might happen. I'm not discounting Cork's chances at all, they could very well win. Just purely based on what I saw first hand against Kilkenny I think Dublin are by some distance the better team.

It doesn't make much sense that Cork were very good, Kilkenny were as poor as they have been for years playing 35 mins with 14 men and still Kilkenny had more than enough chances to win the game.

I agree. I'll keep Barry 'notice me' Kelly's many, many failings for the KK thread but the following gives Cork's win some context I feel:

KK, this season, were a tired team that had recently been extremely stretched against Waterford

The KK forwards have chronically misfired all championship and were not scoring goals

KK for long periods of the game resorted to primitive high ball delivery to the aforementioned misfiring forward line playing into Cork's hands with their numerical advantage

At least one marquee KK player started that was not match fit.

KK played 40 minutes with 14 men with the sending off coming almost straight after Fennelly and Murphy scored inspirational points for KK

KK were far the guiltier party of the two teams for squandering relatively easy points chances (why was Larkin removed from the free taking duty after only two misses?)

Eoin Murphy had no saves to make

Nash stopped at least three certain goals, with another brilliantly blocked by the Cork full back

Despite all this Cork only won by five points and failed to really put Kilkenny out of the game

I know it will be easy for people to dismiss the list above as just excuses/sour grapes etc., but I will state this; Kilkenny did not deserve to win that game, Cork did. I just don't think it was the all-consuming performance it's being made out to be by some

Deskjockey

68Murph68 wrote: »

If I were a Cork supporter the fact that Cork didnt create any goal chances would be a major concern.

In fairness to the Cork forwards, the KK backs are incredibly strong, it's their forwards that let them down this year.

fed up sick and tired

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Plus T Walsh, couldn't get sent off, no matter how hard he tried

If the championship refs, over the past decade, applied the rules, as fairly and as impartially, as was done in last Sunday's KK vs Cork game, KK wouldn't have near as many All Ireland's:pac:

Poor enough wumming there.

Your username describes your mental state nicely, I see.

Rightwing

68Murph68 wrote: »

I think some people are thinking Cork beat KK of 2/3/4/5 years ago as opposed to beating KK of 2013.

It's one thing to beat a team when they are giving a 7/8/9 out of 10 performance; a whole different kettle of fish to beat a team who produced a 2/3/4 out of 10 performance.

If I were a Cork supporter the fact that Cork didnt create any goal chances would be a major concern.

They didn't need to, they were running the KK defenders ragged & slotting points.

Mountainlad

Rightwing wrote: »

They didn't need to, they were running the KK defenders ragged & slotting points.

Yeah but that's 3 games now and no goals, and no actual chances created. I wouldn't call the goals they almost scored against Limerick as something Cork could build and work on as they were basically just relying on the sun in the eyes of the Limerick backs. They have forwards that should be able to get goals so they need to work on it big time.

Rightwing

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah but that's 3 games now and no goals, and no actual chances created. I wouldn't call the goals they almost scored against Limerick as something Cork could build and work on as they were basically just relying on the sun in the eyes of the Limerick backs. They have forwards that should be able to get goals so they need to work on it big time.

I could have Cork wrong, but I also thought they gave us a roasting in the munster final in the 1st half. They missed 2 sitters & 10 wides

Will they need to score goals v Dub?, I don't think so. It's been a championship with very few goals.

Clareman

Goals are harder and harder to score in hurling now as there seems to be a tactic for most teams to concede frees ~60 yards out to negate the chances of the play building for a goal, most of the goals I can remember are either from set pieces or there was a clear attempt to foul the attacker on the way through.

I'll put up a poll now as well.