Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

Bad choice of words. In the circumstances - where a lot of people went to great lengths to make their voices heard - this will only add fuel to the fire. And I would imagine a lot those in favour of the bridge will be annoyed with this triumphalism.

Rantan

Im not defending his actions but I would like to hear the rest of his quote or interview - taking one line and quoting it like that leaves someone open to misinterpretation and happens the whole time in the media

granted by just using the term "war" in his dialogue he sets a worrying tone..however I wouldn't condemn him outright without hearing the full interview.

kikel

Rantan wrote: »

Im not defending his actions but I would like to hear the rest of his quote or interview - taking one line and quoting it like that leaves someone open to misinterpretation and happens the whole time in the media

granted by just using the term "war" in his dialogue he sets a worrying tone..however I wouldn't condemn him outright without hearing the full interview.

As far as i know he said this in the council chamber as the chairman.

Cabaal

kikel wrote: »

As far as i know he said this in the council chamber as the chairman.

If thats the case then its even more worrying,

Its one thing being stopped on the street and being asked for your viewpoint on the matter,

Its very much another to say something that references people being an enemy of the council's whilst in your official position on the council whilst in chamber,

Dan Chipowski

Christopher O'Keeffe @mrchrisokeeffe · Aug 28
We didn't win the battle, but we're going to win the war. #savekilkenny

So Mr. Millea isn't the only one to refer to this thing as a 'war'.

kikel

Jeez now there is an ex councillor Sean o hargain cycling past protester on greens bridge street shouting f**king wasters.

linny

kikel wrote: »

Jeez now there is an ex councillor Sean o hargain cycling past protester on greens bridge street shouting f**king wasters.

and aint he right all that money wasted

Rantan

linny wrote: »

and aint he right all that money wasted

From an anti CAS perspective, to blame the protesters for wasting money is bizarre.

If the council decided to knock the castle and put a pig farm on the site instead and people protested and there was a subsequent cost as a result of the protest - would you still criticise the protesters for the cost of the delays? Regardless of the underlying reason for the protest?

My point is, to the protesters the bridge is as unwelcome in Kilkenny city as a pig farm. They are only concerned about one thing and that is the welfare of Kilkenny. They believe in what they are doing and I think for the right reasons, they personally stand to gain nothing from their protests, so its unfair and misguided to call them wasters so out of hand.
(BTW - I am not connected in anyway with anyone taking part in the protest..)

linny

Rantan wrote: »

From an anti CAS perspective, to blame the protesters for wasting money is bizarre.

If the council decided to knock the castle and put a pig farm on the site instead and people protested and there was a subsequent cost as a result of the protest - would you still criticise the protesters for the cost of the delays? Regardless of the underlying reason for the protest?

My point is, to the protesters the bridge is as unwelcome in Kilkenny city as a pig farm. They are only concerned about one thing and that is the welfare of Kilkenny. They believe in what they are doing and I think for the right reasons, they personally stand to gain nothing from their protests, so its unfair and misguided to call them wasters so out of hand.
(BTW - I am not connected in anyway with anyone taking part in the protest..)

if they were so concerned with the welfare of Kilkenny they would give up this protest and stop costing Kilkenny money

Grats

Dan Chipowski wrote: »

Christopher O'Keeffe @mrchrisokeeffe · Aug 28
We didn't win the battle, but we're going to win the war. #savekilkenny

So Mr. Millea isn't the only one to refer to this thing as a 'war'.

Not surprised that this post has gone unnoticed. All very well when the anti brigade dish out insults, accusation and allegations but they get so sensitive when they're told the truth.

The five Councillors who continue to back ye should have their annual salary as Councillors offset against the needless costs instead of the rest of us coughing up for your playground antics.

foxcoverteddy

Linny you unfortunately did not read Rantans excellent post, please do before going in the opposite direction.
We are supposed to live in a democratic society with free speech and all that entails, the council are acting in a very heavy handed manner, if we carry on like this will we expect to see council vehicles with machine guns mounted on the cab roofs and the workers with black shirts.
This is our Ireland and our Kilkenny, okay perhaps we should demand a referendum.
Foxy on the trail

Rantan

linny wrote: »

if they were so concerned with the welfare of Kilkenny they would give up this protest and stop costing Kilkenny money

so again back to your old logic of its better to spend millions doing something the wrong than to do stop, re-think and spend the money doing it the right way?
So why is it OK for the council to waste millions of tax payers euros?

kikel

Dan Chipowski wrote: »

Christopher O'Keeffe @mrchrisokeeffe · Aug 28
We didn't win the battle, but we're going to win the war. #savekilkenny

So Mr. Millea isn't the only one to refer to this thing as a 'war'.

I think the chairman saying he is at war with the citizens of Kilkenny is a big issue. That and ex councillor and primary school teacher going around shouting f***ing wasters is bad form. Don't forget this is the councillor we are giving a 23k golden handshake to.

Grats

Rantan wrote: »

so again back to your old logic of its better to spend millions doing something the wrong than to do stop, re-think and spend the money doing it the right way?
So why is it OK for the council to waste millions of tax payers euros?

The council were democratically elected and are fulfilling the wishes of the majority of its citizens. If they're wasting money then they have the backing of the citizens to do so. We don't believe it is a waste of money. We're only too well aware of what ye think hut ye have no problem adding to the waste with needless play acting.

kikel

What councillors are actively supporting the protest at this time? As far as I know none of them are. They might privately support them but the protest is non political.

Grats

kikel wrote: »

I think the chairman saying he is at war with the citizens of Kilkenny is a big issue. That and ex councillor and primary school teacher going around shouting f***ing wasters is bad form. Don't forget this is the councillor we are giving a 23k golden handshake to.

Would it not strike you that he was answering in the language of Mr O'Keeffe's choosing?

Grats

kikel wrote: »

What councillors are actively supporting the protest at this time? As far as I know none of them are. They might privately support them but the protest is non political.

Yeah, I can understand why they're running back into the trenches at this stage. But their despicable behaviour won't be forgotten.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

Would it not strike you that he was answering Mr O'Keeffe in the language of his choosing?

Who the chairman? Anything he says in the chamber he says as a representative of KKCC.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

Yeah, I can understand why they're running back into the trenches at this stage. But their despicable behaviour won't be forgotten.

Whats despicable? Representing their constituents?

Grats

kikel wrote: »

Whats despicable? Representing their constituents?

They are part of a democratically elected council. Various motions have been voted on and passed. Those five Councillors continue to ignore the voice of the majority. Of late they have retrenched in order to try to disassociate themselves. Too Kate though, the public have seen through them at this stage.

kikel

Grats wrote: »

They are part of a democratically elected council. Various motions have been voted on and passed. Those five Councillors continue to ignore the voice of the majority. Of late they have retrenched in order to try to disassociate themselves. Too Kate though, the public have seen through them at this stage.

There you go again? Where are you getting this "voice of the majority"?

Threadhead

The council are completely powerless on this. They all decided a review was needed and then were told that they couldn't do that because they don't have the power to do so. Grats, spelling that one out, our democratically elected council UNANIMOUSLY decided a review was needed but were overruled by the puppet masters.

Our democratically elected council have been overruled by the non elected executive who have spent countless amounts of tax payers money drafting in needless amount of guards from neighbouring counties to deal with a few non violent protestors. Protests are a part of life and a major problem in Ireland in the last few years has been the lack of them. These 'wasters' are protesting because they care. Whatever your feelings, can you at least see that their hearts are in the right place? Ask the people of Carlow if they believe Joe Crockett's heart was in the right place? Because 10 years from now what he's done to Kilkenny won't have been for the fondness in his heart for our medieval city. Pension secure, damage done, got out while he could. Bertie would be proud.

Protests happen. Everywhere. So don't act like it's some aberration because you personally don't like it happening in Kilkenny. Grats, do you feel the same about teachers, guards, nurses and council workers protesting as they have in recent years?

The actions of some protestors has been damaging to the Anti CAS campaign, I agree (Mr. O'Keefe's comments don't do him any favours) but blaming the protestors for money being wasted is the height of ridiculousness. I don't blame the councillors either, they're puppets on strings. It's our all powerful, non elected executive who have done the damage and set citizens of this town against each other, damaging Kilkenny's international reputation in the process.

Oh, and they ordered the wrong bridge by accident last year. I think it's wise that we keep reminding ourselves of that.

foxcoverteddy

Well now there is a problem, yes the council resulted from a democratic vote, whether they attained a majority on the first ballot; another matter one of the problems with the voting system.
That aside, unless you live relatively close to Kilkenny city, you would have very little interest in what the bridge looked like and the ensuing traffic problems, do you think those who live near the Carlow border are shopping in Kilkenny? You live in South Kilkenny isn't Waterford a much better bet, Tipp offers Clonmel or even Thurles.
So it is possible councillors from these area's have no wish to rock the boat and are thinking next election, what is it called "Brown Nosing", so a referendum would possibly solve the matter of the CAS, in any case all those other towns have a Tesco.
Unfortunately there are people who can see no further than their nose and whose vision of the future is somewhat limited, and we are obviously going to suffer the consequences.
Foxy for a referendum

Cabaal

linny wrote: »

and aint he right all that money wasted

So people shouldn't object to something they don't want on the basis that it might cost the council money?

Thats an odd world you live in, thankfully the rest of us don't live in your world.

kikel

I'm with foxy. Referendum.

pegasus1

Ditto from me foxy....or at least a poll...not one organised by the council, but by a proper poll taker...

foxcoverteddy

What revelations, brilliant, so how does the executive get to run the council? Who appoints such people? Whilst understanding that some of our councillors may not actually be capable of running Kilkenny Ltd, through no fault of their own, these other officials, being polite of course, must be on a contract.
Surely our elected representatives must have an import as to who get's these highly paid jobs? How do we get rid of someone who ordered the wrong bridge for instance? The fact of whether it was done by accident is irrelevant, somewhat similar to a large supermarket losing 250 million.
Now we have our highly paid employee telling us, us who employ him that he has won the war with the CAS.
Sorry sticking two fingers up to your employer is very bad practice, sort of adding insult to injury, it really must be time for some of these people to move on.
We definitely need a referendum on both the CAS and who we choose to run our Kilkenny Ltd, after all our international standing has been damaged.
Foxy for a people power move.

Rantan

Grats wrote: »

The council were democratically elected and are fulfilling the wishes of the majority of its citizens. If they're wasting money then they have the backing of the citizens to do so. We don't believe it is a waste of money. We're only too well aware of what ye think hut ye have no problem adding to the waste with needless play acting.

..."needless play acting"...are you just taking the p**s?

The Democracy you flout is not about blindly conforming with the decisions of a few regardless of the merit of those decisions.
If that's what you call democracy maybe you should leave Ireland to the wasters and go live in China or North Korea?

Rantan

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

What revelations, brilliant, so how does the executive get to run the council? Who appoints such people? Whilst understanding that some of our councillors may not actually be capable of running Kilkenny Ltd, through no fault of their own, these other officials, being polite of course, must be on a contract.
Surely our elected representatives must have an import as to who get's these highly paid jobs? How do we get rid of someone who ordered the wrong bridge for instance? The fact of whether it was done by accident is irrelevant, somewhat similar to a large supermarket losing 250 million.
Now we have our highly paid employee telling us, us who employ him that he has won the war with the CAS.
Sorry sticking two fingers up to your employer is very bad practice, sort of adding insult to injury, it really must be time for some of these people to move on.
We definitely need a referendum on both the CAS and who we choose to run our Kilkenny Ltd, after all our international standing has been damaged.
Foxy for a people power move.

well said..
foxy...in your moments of sobriety you're a real genius...a real one..not one of those Walter O'Brien makey uppey type...!!

galwaycyclist

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

What revelations, brilliant, so how does the executive get to run the council? Who appoints such people? Whilst understanding that some of our councillors may not actually be capable of running Kilkenny Ltd, through no fault of their own, these other officials, being polite of course, must be on a contract.
Surely our elected representatives must have an import as to who get's these highly paid jobs? How do we get rid of someone who ordered the wrong bridge for instance? The fact of whether it was done by accident is irrelevant, somewhat similar to a large supermarket losing 250 million.
Now we have our highly paid employee telling us, us who employ him that he has won the war with the CAS.
Sorry sticking two fingers up to your employer is very bad practice, sort of adding insult to injury, it really must be time for some of these people to move on.
We definitely need a referendum on both the CAS and who we choose to run our Kilkenny Ltd, after all our international standing has been damaged.
Foxy for a people power move.

Bear in mind also that at senior level they also set their own performance targets which feeds into their bonus schemes.

It is entirely possible that some of the officials involved have the CAS included in their performance targets.