Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

Help!!!!

catbear wrote: »

What's this obsession with heavy industry? Few places can compete with Kilkenny's tourist appeal. If anything there's great opportunity to build on cultural product, look at cartoon saloon.

If its the right industry in the right location then there's no problem....everyone wants to see more jobs in Kilkenny.
You're right not many places can compete with Kilkenny's tourist appeal & we don't want to lose that

1984baby

Cabaal wrote: »

There's not too many empty units in marketcross and mcdonaugh these days, though there are certainly tonnes of empty units in the mall in high street...not sure if thats a long term plan to close the place or what.

There are approx 80 to 100 empty retail units in the Kilkenny city area at present.

foxcoverteddy

Is the CAS going to do anything for the city centre? A consensus of opinion say's no Is the CAS going to reduce the number of empty units in the city?
Is the CAS going to increase the number of tourists coming to the South East's jewel, Kilkenny?
Is the council plans for the brewery site going to benefit the high street shops?
In fact who is going to benefit from the CAS, town planning experts, contractors who are not possibly based in Kilkenny, building suppliers from heaven's knows where.
What is the plan whilst this CAS is being built? Traffic chaos?
So what will all this do to our tourists?
As an aside we haven't got a boating lake, building one would give us a fantastic amount of usable quarry soil, and no doubt find many buried artefacts from a bygone age.
So if we do find evidence of our illustrious past what happens to the rest of the plan, for how many years can we live in limbo, or will the council bulldoze history into oblivion.
The whole argument is not about the CAS it is about the future of Kilkenny, our city, not the council's city, we pay them to protect it and nurture what we have, not to run riot over the spoils that certain individuals may or may not expect.
Foxy against another shopping mall.

obezyana

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Is the CAS going to do anything for the city centre? A consensus of opinion say's no Is the CAS going to reduce the number of empty units in the city?
Is the CAS going to increase the number of tourists coming to the South East's jewel, Kilkenny?
Is the council plans for the brewery site going to benefit the high street shops?
In fact who is going to benefit from the CAS, town planning experts, contractors who are not possibly based in Kilkenny, building suppliers from heaven's knows where.
What is the plan whilst this CAS is being built? Traffic chaos?
So what will all this do to our tourists?
As an aside we haven't got a boating lake, building one would give us a fantastic amount of usable quarry soil, and no doubt find many buried artefacts from a bygone age.
So if we do find evidence of our illustrious past what happens to the rest of the plan, for how many years can we live in limbo, or will the council bulldoze history into oblivion.
The whole argument is not about the CAS it is about the future of Kilkenny, our city, not the council's city, we pay them to protect it and nurture what we have, not to run riot over the spoils that certain individuals may or may not expect.
Foxy against another shopping mall.

Ah Foxy your being dramatic with those words.

Help!!!!

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

As an aside we haven't got a boating lake, building one would give us a fantastic amount of usable quarry soil, and no doubt find many buried artefacts from a bygone age.
So if we do find evidence of our illustrious past what happens to the rest of the plan, for how many years can we live in limbo, or will the council bulldoze history into oblivion.

Irish history would say the council would build right over the top of any historical findings ( Dublin's Wood Quay ?)

foxcoverteddy

Yes maybe dramatic words; but surely our love of Kilkenny demands we make our feelings known and where necessary curtail any council infringement on our history, for a quick buck.
The more you think of the brewery site, how was it put with cafe's and restaurants plus housing, some planning for the future.
I would definitely say no to Tesco or any other supermarket or shopping mall, because if that is what the CAS is all about; there is something terribly wrong.
If you cannot finish a ring road after 20 years why the hell do you go headlong into a controversial development that there is sufficient opposition to, not unless.....................................................
Unsaid words Foxy

foxcoverteddy

Anyone know what happened with the injunction today, Foxy

linny

There was no decision in court this evening in Kilkenny Co Co vs Christopher O Keeffe. The case will be heard again on next Monday. The injunction on work will stay in place until then, this is very disappointing news but hopefully costs will be awarded to Kilkenny coco when it gets sorted
http://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-kilkenny-bridge-river-nore-1665525-Sep2014/

foxcoverteddy

This all depends which side of the fence you are, personally a great deal of our money has been wasted with this CAS, to or for what reason?
No one is saying we don't want progress, what the crux of the matter is the ring road should have been finished first.
Do you not see it will completely alter the traffic flows around the city, based on that how can you formulate plans when one knows the whole scheme could be a waste of money.
I suspect someone is determined to have their way at any cost, this is the reason a rush job was done before the election.
History has shown that those who abuse their power can cause considerable pain to others, why one never knows but there is no place for a demi-god in Kilkenny.
Foxy

foxcoverteddy

The CAS is supposed to be part of a traffic management scheme and for the economical benefit of our city, to ensure it marches on to further prosperity in the future.
Well, many feel that the ring road should come first, which is as maybe; however come with me and look at the traffic management we have at the moment, Market Cross, built with two entrances in and only one out, that being controlled by traffic lights which can at peak times result in nearly ten minute waits to get out.
Bateman Quay, yes the car park as multi entrances and exits, fine until you get to the junction with Johns Bridge, traffic is allowed to right turn, which again at peak times results in long traffic queues in John Street and the Quay.
Patrick Street/High Street/Rose Inn st junction, again peak time queues, due to the traffic light sequences.
My favourite Kennyswell Bridge, built for the horse and cart, in this day a single file bridge on a main artery to the city.
Green's bridge, Michael Street and Bleach road, it might be Wolfe Tone street but nevertheless a nightmare junction at peak times.
Callan Road roundabout not built for future traffic growth, similar to Waterford Road roundabout.
High Street, a disaster I must admit I wondered how there was never more problems with James St I cannot remember seeing any no entry signs.
Irishtown/Dean Street, street parking reduces traffic flows especially at the peak times, partly drivers own fault the Vicars Street roundabout is dire at times.
So perhaps the ring road would have reduced the volume of traffic coming into the city.
Building Tesco in the brewery site is certainly not going to help either tourist or traffic problems, it has to be a definite no.
We need to protect our city from expert planners and developers who will do anything for money, except preserve the heritage.
Dramatic maybe; depends how much you love our city, just go and look at our neighbours, please do yourself a favour, perhaps you will understand the preservation of the historic nature of Kilkenny must be protected, who goes to Milton Keynes?
Love Kilkenny Foxy

Cabaal

linny wrote: »

There was no decision in court this evening in Kilkenny Co Co vs Christopher O Keeffe. The case will be heard again on next Monday. The injunction on work will stay in place until then, this is very disappointing news but hopefully costs will be awarded to Kilkenny coco when it gets sorted
http://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-kilkenny-bridge-river-nore-1665525-Sep2014/

Rather then taking sides it would be better to hope that the judge makes the appropriate decision and awards costs to whichever side based on the evidence provided.

galwaycyclist

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

The CAS is supposed to be part of a traffic management scheme and for the economical benefit of our city, to ensure it marches on to further prosperity in the future.
Well, many feel that the ring road should come first, which is as maybe; however come with me and look at the traffic management we have at the moment, Market Cross, built with two entrances in and only one out, that being controlled by traffic lights which can at peak times result in nearly ten minute waits to get out.
Bateman Quay, yes the car park as multi entrances and exits, fine until you get to the junction with Johns Bridge, traffic is allowed to right turn, which again at peak times results in long traffic queues in John Street and the Quay.
Patrick Street/High Street/Rose Inn st junction, again peak time queues, due to the traffic light sequences.
My favourite Kennyswell Bridge, built for the horse and cart, in this day a single file bridge on a main artery to the city.
Green's bridge, Michael Street and Bleach road, it might be Wolfe Tone street but nevertheless a nightmare junction at peak times.
Callan Road roundabout not built for future traffic growth, similar to Waterford Road roundabout.
High Street, a disaster I must admit I wondered how there was never more problems with James St I cannot remember seeing any no entry signs.
Irishtown/Dean Street, street parking reduces traffic flows especially at the peak times, partly drivers own fault the Vicars Street roundabout is dire at times.
So perhaps the ring road would have reduced the volume of traffic coming into the city.
Building Tesco in the brewery site is certainly not going to help either tourist or traffic problems, it has to be a definite no.
We need to protect our city from expert planners and developers who will do anything for money, except preserve the heritage.
Dramatic maybe; depends how much you love our city, just go and look at our neighbours, please do yourself a favour, perhaps you will understand the preservation of the historic nature of Kilkenny must be protected, who goes to Milton Keynes?
Love Kilkenny Foxy

<two cents worth>

You should not be trying to cater for either the existing traffic or traffic growth inside a historical city.

If Kilkenny (or Galway) was located in the Netherlands then traffic would be diverted around the historic zone and private motor cars would not be allowed into the central area other than for access.

So to take the example of a city like Delft. The the city has a central waterway and has been divided into traffic cells by closing the bridges to private motor traffic. If you want to cross the bridges you need to be walking, cycling or using public transport. Car drivers that want to "cross" the city need to drive outwards then go around the ring and come back in.

That is the kind of solution needed in Kilkenny (and Galway). Rather than trying to build more bridges you should be working to selectively close the ones you have.

kikel

galwaycyclist wrote: »

<two cents worth>

You should not be trying to cater for either the existing traffic or traffic growth inside a historical city.

If Kilkenny (or Galway) was located in the Netherlands then traffic would be diverted around the historic zone and private motor cars would not be allowed into the central area other than for access.

So to take the example of a city like Delft. The the city has a central waterway and has been divided into traffic cells by closing the bridges to private motor traffic. If you want to cross the bridges you need to be walking, cycling or using public transport. Car drivers that want to "cross" the city need to drive outwards then go around the ring and come back in.

That is the kind of solution needed in Kilkenny (and Galway). Rather than trying to build more bridges you should be working to selectively close the ones you have.

Well said. So much of the traffic is going cross city? If it is going cross city it should be using the ring road. Even in it's current state people should be using the ring road more.

pegasus1

kikel wrote: »

Well said. So much of the traffic is going cross city? If it is going cross city it should be using the ring road. Even in it's current state people should be using the ring road more.

Plenty of people drive into the city via the waterford rd, then straight through and out the dublin rd...why,? I dont know...

obezyana

pegasus1 wrote: »

Plenty of people drive into the city via the waterford rd, then straight through and out the dublin rd...why,? I dont know...

Playing devils advocate here but how do you know that people drive that route? or is it maybe one or two people that you know who may of done something like that. Not being a troll just a curious question.

pegasus1

obezyana wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here but how do you know that people drive that route? or is it maybe one or two people that you know who may of done something like that. Not being a troll just a curious question.

Because i have a pair of eyes!! Simples

obezyana

galwaycyclist wrote: »

<two cents worth>

You should not be trying to cater for either the existing traffic or traffic growth inside a historical city.

If Kilkenny (or Galway) was located in the Netherlands then traffic would be diverted around the historic zone and private motor cars would not be allowed into the central area other than for access.

So to take the example of a city like Delft. The the city has a central waterway and has been divided into traffic cells by closing the bridges to private motor traffic. If you want to cross the bridges you need to be walking, cycling or using public transport. Car drivers that want to "cross" the city need to drive outwards then go around the ring and come back in.

That is the kind of solution needed in Kilkenny (and Galway). Rather than trying to build more bridges you should be working to selectively close the ones you have.

Good post. The problem with Greensbridge is that its not a good bridge for two way traffic. Its old narrow and a bottleneck but that area needs some sort of bridge, maybe making it one way and building the new bridge further up could be a viable option.

Just down the road Waterford has two bridges, one which is just outside the City Centre and the other in the City which are great but by god does it need a third on the other end of the city as the traffic can be a nightmare. The people in Waterford would love to have a problem to solve like this unfortunately we dont its KKs problem so we look on in envy

Bridges in cities are a good thing the problem is traffic management. So while the Dutch idea can be a good one it might only work in certain places but again it comes down to traffic management if thats not right then it will cause problems which Greensbridge can be and the CAS WILL ease that.

Again as iv said before i support the building of a new bridge but not in that location upgrading the current bridge and better traffic managament would to me seem the better way to go.

foxcoverteddy

I reckon mentioning the Netherlands is double Dutch, he he

obezyana

pegasus1 wrote: »

Because i have a pair of eyes!! Simples

So how do you see the cars take that route? and on a regular enough basis to say it does happen.

Dozen Wicked Words

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

I reckon mentioning the Netherlands is double Dutch, he he

You don't need tulips to say It's the dam clogging up of the roads that's Kilkennys biggest problem, but frankly you're tilting at windmills or smoking the wacky tabacky if you think cas will make it better.

Pancakes.

pegasus1

obezyana wrote: »

Maybe making it one way and building the new bridge further up could be a viable option.

Read the name of this thread! Which would include the extra bridge needed...

pegasus1

obezyana wrote: »

So how do you see the cars take that route? and on a regular enough basis to say it does happen.

Because i do be in town a lot...sounds like you are from waterford...re your recent post....so are you lost on this thread?:D

obezyana

pegasus1 wrote: »

Read the name of this thread! Which would include the extra bridge needed...

Ok sorry i never even thought of reading the title my problems are now solved

pegasus1 wrote: »

Because i do be in town a lot...sounds like you are from waterford...re your recent post....so are you lost on this thread?:D

How does you being in town alot constitute you knowing where certain cars are coming from and heading to and by the way if your in town how do you see the cars coming from the Waterford rd then leave via the Dublin rd? you must has eyes as wide as the Nile.

pegasus1

obezyana wrote: »

How does you being in town alot constitute you knowing where certain cars are coming from and heading to and by the way if your in town how do you see the cars coming from the Waterford rd then leave via the Dublin rd? you must has eyes as wide as the Nile.

A Garda wouldnt ask one that..because i come in that way a lot and i see a lot of cars go though the junction onto roseinn st..got that..:P

So either they go onto dublin rd or onto the comer rd..both could be done by the ring rd..

foxcoverteddy

why is it that most people can see the problem with the CAS and traffic in our beautiful city; the experts and council do not, they are intent on making it worse.
Keep traffic out of the centre and have free flowing round the outskirts, come on the Dutch are experts at this, they have to be with their population.
Of course the reason for the ring road is to see where the best place is for a bridge to go.
In truth the only bridge worthy of the title is the Ossery Bridge, neither Greens or Johns can be used for one way traffic, defeat the object,
When will they ever learn, perhaps we should demand our money back from the experts and send the council to Holland, and hope they never come back, no we love the Dutch.
Scheidam Foxy

kikel

Foxy I've already offered a number of them free trips to show them how other cities are successfully removing traffic from city centres. I can't believe they didn't even reply to me.

foxcoverteddy

one way to stop those who prefer to drive through the city is to close Rose Inn Street, pedestrianized, they have go to go round, we are handicapped because of the CAS which is going to cause major disruption, unfortunately the bridge situation is equally a handicap at the moment, the council have made a right of the situation.
One only has look at the track record, would anyone with any sense have allowed Rivercourt to build, the entrance and exit is pure nonsense, coahes coming through Rose Inn Street it is not built for such vehicles.
Perhaps they should have gone to specsavers.

kikel

Foxy have to agree with you on rose in street. Why the council insist on sending all this traffic across the city is madness. Took this image today coincidently. See attached

hi5

You need to lobby for what you want. The only group that seem to do any lobbying are the Traders and the Chamber of Commerce.
Remember a few years ago we had the one way system? well that was reversed by the Traders who complained of a down turn in trade which coincidently was around the same time of the down turn in the economy anyway.

linny

great news from the high court, the injunction on both bridges has been lifted, and work can proceed again