Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

kikel

Rantan wrote: »

In all fairness to the co co - not considering the actual look of the bridge, I think it was a great piece of urban planning. the council did not decide to erect the bridge because there was a huge demand from hoards of stranded pedestrians who stood on the Dunnes side of the river looking forlornly across the river saying "id cross over if there was a bridge but I'll think twice now"

There are plans to develop both the library and Evans Home off Michael street/behind the church, into cultural destinations(art gallery and museum I think?)
When you consider the plan for the area as a whole the bridge makes sense. Right now there is nothing on that side of town to encourage people over, when the developments are complete the bridge will make more sense and facilitate the movement of people across the river. I cant wait - I live on that side of town and the potential is huge - Evans home is a wonderful old building and the plans look great for it. as it stands I use the bridge at every opportunity and like it

I think the pedestrian bridge is a great idea. I would love to see more of them. I heard an idea before that there could be another at the castle to the county council offices.

Evans home project while i haven't seen the plan has some great potential. I only noticed at the weekend how this will also connect to John street from around langtons. The potential for this development is huge. Anyone know the time scale for this project? It's the type of project KKCC should be focusing on rather than the CAS. Really developing old KK rather than trying to build a new centre.

Rantan

kikel wrote: »

I think the pedestrian bridge is a great idea. I would love to see more of them. I heard an idea before that there could be another at the castle to the county council offices.

Evans home project while i haven't seen the plan has some great potential. I only noticed at the weekend how this will also connect to John street from around langtons. The potential for this development is huge. Anyone know the time scale for this project? It's the type of project KKCC should be focusing on rather than the CAS. Really developing old KK rather than trying to build a new centre.

worth a look here:

http://ourplan.kilkenny.ie/

its not all bad from the Co Co in all fairness - they have some great plans for the future - and judging by this, seem to have a grasp on the potential to develop KK as a cultural, heritage and tourist destination and the ability to generate some positive economic spin off.

foxcoverteddy

What is going to happen now, can you Christmas Eve it, Doctors protesting in the streets, shouting and god knows what else, it is just too bad what have we come down to?

Rantan

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

What is going to happen now, can you Christmas Eve it, Doctors protesting in the streets, shouting and god knows what else, it is just too bad what have we come down to?

Cabaal

Grats wrote: »

Gosh, I'm no expert. Wrong or right bridge it is a brilliant amenity and getting plenty of use. The one under the Ossory Bridge will be opened in a few weeks and will add further to our wonderful city. Shame that some can't enjoy the whole project.

But the current pedestrian bridge is not the design that was outlined in the final design.

Arr you ok with the council building something different to the final design?

dathi

Cabaal wrote: »

But the current pedestrian bridge is not the design that was outlined in the final design.

Arr you ok with the council building something different to the final design?

this is usually the case with design. just because some thing can be drawn to look pretty on computer by cad doesn't mean that it is capable of standing up on its own. all designs have to be given over to structural engineers to do the maths and changes are inevitable.

kikel

dathi wrote: »

this is usually the case with design. just because some thing can be drawn to look pretty on computer by cad doesn't mean that it is capable of standing up on its own. all designs have to be given over to structural engineers to do the maths and changes are inevitable.

You're a 100% right, this happens all the time when you fail to do proper planning during the design stage. If the design team don't know how to do the maths to construct it correctly they shouldn't be designing bridges.

Rantan

kikel wrote: »

You're a 100% right, this happens all the time when you fail to do proper planning during the design stage. If the design team don't know how to do the maths to construct it correctly they shouldn't be designing bridges.

In all fairness you cant blame the deisgn team for the lack of planning - designers are designers not planners.

At the design stage they were probably given a very broad scope from the Co Co -
"give us the design for a steel structure bridge x long by x wide made of painted mild steel" and they will provide a basic design accordingly. At that stage the co co would either approve it or reject and then a detailed design would be produced.
At any stage during that process the council could have altered it. They would only have signed off on detailed drawings though and not a vague idea. So someone in the Co Co knew exactly how the bridge would look before it was delivered, from what I heard though the spec of the final finish was f&&ed up.
(well that's my understanding of the process anyway, Im coming from the private construction sector - I would be very interested to hear how it really works if anyone has any details??)

foxcoverteddy

One does not expect the council to admit what happened, the snag is we and the future Kilkenny residents have to live with it, isn't this a problem with the CAS, you have to get it right first time, and to a degree the Abbey site.
From the current problem regarding the bridge, as has been said you can't move it once it is in position.
To be honest we are saying we really want Kilkenny to become a picture post-card venue, and once again this council does not install confidence.
Foxy

Cabaal

Its funny,

The council condemn others for cost over runs with the CAS,

But they celebrate cost over runs they create themselves, almost 50% over the initial budget....thats impressive!

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/hurling-monument-a-tale-that-grows-in-the-telling-1-6322754

Mr Wrafter’s initial concept envisaged a limestone piece 4.2 metres high, two metres wide, and one metre deep. The cost agreed was €54,676.

the assessment panel have since recommended a number of design changes to the project, which have increased the amount of stone needed as well as the overall cost of the work. Most notably, the piece is now to an ‘in-the-round’ piece, with detail visible from all sides, as opposed to the initial ‘in-relief’ concept which has just one frontal dimension.

The statue will also now be 4.7m high, and the amount of uncut stone has increased by more than 30%. Costs have also risen for transport, labour, equipment, scaffolding and overheads etc.

Following discussions with the artist and examination of costs to date, the fee for the commission has now been increased to €95,385.40.

Speaking at Friday’s meeting, senior engineer Kieran Fitzgerald told the councillors that the new costing was reasonable for what he said looked to be ‘a superb piece’.

I'd expect it to come in around 130 thousand euro in the end, there's no way they'll do it for this new budget.

I suppose almost a 50% bigger budget is very reasonable when you are spending other people's money, I know I'd be pissed if I went to build a house for 300k and it cost me 550k in the end!

foxcoverteddy

I really do not think the statue has a lot to do with the CAS, however it is badly needed; and what better than our hurlers, I guess we can now bring in Walter O'Brien and James Hoban as the next possible candidates, yes?
By the way if we have hurlers what is wrong with our girls having a statue or is this another all male domain?
Equality Foxy

pegasus1

Did anyone notice that there was dredging going on at greens bridge on sunday night? With lots plastic screening to hide what was going on?

obezyana

pegasus1 wrote: »

Did anyone notice that there was dredging going on at greens bridge on sunday night? With lots plastic screening to hide what was going on?

They are building a secret underground/river tunnel........sssh dont tell no one. its KKs channel tunnel.

Rantan

pegasus1 wrote: »

Did anyone notice that there was dredging going on at greens bridge on sunday night? With lots plastic screening to hide what was going on?

crikey..didn't see that...

I wonder did they have an archaeologist in attendance for monitoring as I'm sure would be required in an area like that?

foxcoverteddy

It would appear, given that protesters were at one time stationed adjacent to the bridge; that all interest in the CAS as far as Boards is concerned has waned, so far there has been no response in respect to the strange going on's.
It looks rather like a total capitulation irrespective of how the council act.
A very sad foxy

foxcoverteddy

Had a gander at the Facebook "save Kilkenny" page, well in all fairness it is far more informative than our meagre efforts, pity because I thought Boards was well contributed to, seemingly not, though perhaps we are realists and know that the council have won, good job the allies didn't take the same attitude during WW2.
Where is the dogmatic attitude of Kilkenny people, letting a council walk all over us, shame on you.
Think we will fight them on the bridge, bring them to their knees in Irishtown, sweep them out of office, dead, we are saying please build a bridge that we do not want, we are happy with the horrible pedestrian bridge you didn't agree to and accepted.
Clonmel here we come.

kikel

Lots of rumours flying around that it is a cleanup operation of PCBs. PCBs is a cancer causing chemical. Hence the white suits and plastic sheeting. More information on the dumping of PCBs in the river note by the brewery can be found on google and it was also discussed in the dail years ago.


http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/brewery-slammed-over-nore-pollution-continued-1-2151434

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0561/D.0561.200302120022.html

More info on PCBs http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyl

pegasus1

Wonders if the kkcoco are doing this, to say to court that the damage to the river is more from this than the new bridge works..

Is it going to bring up stuff that was buried and dormant?

Re this ebola thing, i have something banging inside my head that its too do with all the gold mining in those countries that brought it up from the deep jungle, when it was safe buried...

Einhard

Cabaal wrote: »

Its funny,

The council condemn others for cost over runs with the CAS,

But they celebrate cost over runs they create themselves, almost 50% over the initial budget....thats impressive!

Ah hold on now, that's apples and oranges and you know it. A cost overrun would apply to increased cost on the original project; as the council are extending the brief of the artist and adding to his commission, it can hardly be considered extra funding for the original project.

If you were spending 10k on a new kitchen, but then decided to spend an extra 5k on a new bedroom too, you wouldn't consider it a cost overrun simply because you're asking for extra. It's the same situation. I think people can voice their opinions against the council and the bridge without fudging the issue. It puts me off engaging with their opinion otherwise.

foxcoverteddy

One wonders why we are having a statue in the first place? There is a lot more to Kilkenny than hurling.

Einhard

There's a lot more to Kilkenny than anything. If we had that kind of attitude we'd never put anything up!

foxcoverteddy

In the first instance I do not think this argument sits well in this thread as it has very little to do with the CAS.
I would suggest that it is a negative attitude, how many years has Kilkenny been without a statue?
Seeing the council has made Keep Kilkenny beautiful a joke, I guess it matters not who appears in stone, why even Phil Hogan might be a good resting place for the pigeons.

Doff

I would fully support a statue of Big Phil.

kikel

Roll up, Roll up. Months after the project has started you can now view a scale model of the proposed bridge in the old Meubles building on johns street. Anyone got a picture of it?

me89

Not the best picture in the world but the bridge looks massive.

linny

looks well

kikel

How they think that is a good idea is beyond me. Why didn't they do they whole scheme? No other building really included, not even greens bridge. You'd think they would include other buildings in the area to show the scale of this project. Very misleading work again my our county council

kikel

The above image was published by the Pro CAS side on facebook. The admins of the page say that they have no affiliation with KK county council but they still can't answer the question about how they got access to the model. The space in johns street is not open to the public. Why are the pro cas side allowed access and those that are against it not allowed to get some decent shots. It seems that the page is either ran by the council or the Pro CAS side get special privileges.

Sky King

I see the protestors' tent is still there in the middle of the river.

Fair play lads!

Dozen Wicked Words

It's just a very ugly bridge.