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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭billie1b


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Some interesting proposals there, including the tweaking of Pier B (an extra jet bridge for an upper deck) to accommodate A380 ops. It also says Emirates are interested in using the whale.

    Another is the widening of the apron immediately west of Pier B to allow ATRs etc to be nearer to Pier E. There are also plans for both minor alterations to taxiways for larger more cumbersome a/c, but the A380 is not specifically mentioned, as well as provision for more hold points at either end of the east-west runway - I'd welcome this especially as the knot of tarmac at the intersection of 16/34 and 10/28 doesn't strike oneself as being efficiently used. An extension to 10/28 (on which end - asssuming the West end - I'm not sure) is also in there, approx. 380m + taxiway tie ins.

    A bus facility on the south side of T2 is also proposed, and it strikes of more short sightedness and would only add to the all-over-the-gaff nature of the airport at the minute, IMO.

    And here's an interesting shape the airport could take in a few decades...

    309310.JPG

    Picture isn't th greatest on my phone, whats the little Apron thing across from start of RWY10


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    billie1b wrote: »
    Picture isn't th greatest on my phone, whats the little Apron thing across from start of RWY10

    Could be remote parking for aircraft


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭billie1b


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    Could be remote parking for aircraft

    Extremely remote, its nearly in Kilshane Cross :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭BonkeyDonker


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    Could be remote parking for aircraft

    Airline maintnenace or perhaps cargo as there appears to be hangar/building included in the drawing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    If the DAA had been allowed to build this there would have been no landings at DUB between Nov 2013 and Feb 2014.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    dubdaymo wrote: »
    If the DAA had been allowed to build this there would have been no landings at DUB between Nov 2013 and Feb 2014.

    Why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    Why?

    Clue. Something very important which is indispensable and was used extensively during that period has been taken out!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    dubdaymo wrote: »
    Why?

    Clue. Something very important which is indispensable and was used extensively during that period has been taken out!

    There is still another runway to use, 34/16. Although it wouldn't be efficient for ME and US carriers, they can still use 34/16 runway. What would be done on 28/10? Renovation? Extension or what? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Razor44


    yeah what's the deal with getting rid of the crosswind runway? i know alot of major airports dont have them, ie LHR but is it a good idea for the DAA?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    There is still another runway to use, 34/16. Although it wouldn't be efficient for ME and US carriers, they can still use 34/16 runway. What would be done on 28/10? Renovation? Extension or what? :confused:

    I think he's talking about 16/34..I don't know, my head isn't right today :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 291 ✭✭bombs away


    Runways are expensive to maintain, that said I don't think it would be a good idea to get rid of 16/34 considering it was used an awful lot over the winter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭dubdaymo


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    There is still another runway to use, 34/16. Although it wouldn't be efficient for ME and US carriers, they can still use 34/16 runway.
    Did you look at the map? There is no more 16/34 on that map. It has been built over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    dubdaymo wrote: »
    Did you look at the map? There is no more 16/34 on that map. It has been built over.

    Yes, but it won't be decommissioned once they start breaking ground for the new runway. They'll probably start working on the new parallel runway and once it's finished, they will start repairing the old 28/10 runway and then eventually, decommission 34/16. Do note that the Piers C and E won't be built during the construction of the runway. AFAIK, they don't have planning permission to build the new piers yet?


    Sometimes it's nice to have a back-up runway in case something happens on 28/10. I don't think there's any harm in keeping the 34/16 in operation throughout the construction of the parallel runway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,707 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I think that the point he's trying to make to you is parallel runway or not, the crosswind runway proved invaluable earlier this year, and neither of the two parallel runways would have been much use as they were in the wrong direction.

    In other words - keep three operational runways including a crosswind option.

    I'd have to say I would concur.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Runway 16-34 will remain a critical piece of infrastructure until the opening of the North Parallel
    Runway. The runway is used for dual operations each morning and is critical in keeping the airport
    open when work is required on the main Runway 10-28. A structural survey carried out in 2013
    indicated that extensive structural rehabilitation will be required over the next 5 years in order to
    keep this critical asset serviceable.
    Expected to start in 2018 and end in 2020

    10/28 extension to 3000m: 2017-2019.

    Parallel runway: Construction triggered at 25m passengers pa. 36 months for construction.

    The regulator's forecast say DUB won't reach 25m ppa until after 2020 and while most people would say that's pessimistic, it's irrelevant. I doubt they'll be carrying out a 10/28 extension, 16/34 paving rehabilitation and building 10L/28R all at the same time. Meaning even if passenger figures hit 25m, the runway won't really break ground until 2021.

    Or am I being too pessimistic?
    In 2009 CAR set the trigger for initiating the Northern Runway project at traffic in excess of
    23.5m passengers in any consecutive 12 Month period before 2015. Since 2008, the profile
    of departing flights has changed with 20% of PAX now departing in the 06.00 and 07.00 slots
    compared to 18% in 2008 and 15% in 2006. This change in departure-time profile means that
    there is a higher concentration of departing aircraft in the early morning peak today, than
    in 2008, which represented the profile from which the existing trigger was set.

    Which begs the question, why change the trigger to 25m?
    daa submitted a planning application to Fingal County Council in December 2004, and
    planning permission for a new North Runway was finally granted by An Bord Pleanála in
    August 2007. However, some of the conditions attached to this permission are highly
    restrictive from an airfield operations point of view, particularly the inability to use the
    new runway between 23:00 and 07:00, while restricting the total number of aircraft
    movements between these hours to 65 daily movements averaged over a 3-month period.
    There are currently no restrictions on night-time aircraft movements, while the peak
    departure wave is between 06:00 and 07:00
    Nice to see ABP being as useless as ever..

    What happened to changing the proposal to 3660m? It was in the 2009 CIP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Surely at that price its simply not worth it.

    Would the money not be better pumped into Shannon / Belfast / Cork / Galway for improvements?

    I would be happier seeing our national rail network get a total revamp. God knows it's 50 years out of date.

    I'm still waiting for Casement to be turned into a proper westside airport - it would mean people wouldn't have to drive through Dublin city at all, and from a selfish point of view, I wouldn't have to get up at six to get a 10am flight, living as I do in the south of the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭markpb


    I'm still waiting for Casement to be turned into a proper westside airport - it would mean people wouldn't have to drive through Dublin city at all, and from a selfish point of view, I wouldn't have to get up at six to get a 10am flight, living as I do in the south of the city.

    The chances of a much smaller, second airport having a flight to where you want to go would be very small.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    markpb wrote: »
    The chances of a much smaller, second airport having a flight to where you want to go would be very small.

    Oh, I don't know; Shannon does ok.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    based on 8% per annum compound growth based on 20,200,000 (2013 figure) we would hit that number at the end of 2016 it would be 25,5 million... It would be good if the cork route was reinstated, would speed things up...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Aphex


    I'm still waiting for Casement to be turned into a proper westside airport - it would mean people wouldn't have to drive through Dublin city at all, and from a selfish point of view, I wouldn't have to get up at six to get a 10am flight, living as I do in the south of the city.

    Where are you living? The south of Cork?

    Why drive through the city? You do know that you can get off the M50 less than 5 minutes away from Dublin Airport?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Aphex wrote: »
    Where are you living? The south of Cork?

    Why drive through the city? You do know that you can get off the M50 less than 5 minutes away from Dublin Airport?

    Try it at rush hour - if you're flying at 10am you have to be there at 9, which means you hit rush hour unless you leave before it. Normally I get the 16 bus to the airport.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Aphex


    Well, the bus would take a lot longer I suppose. Wasn't thinking about that, apologies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭markpb


    Oh, I don't know; Shannon does ok.

    Shannon carried 1.4m pax last year. Dublin carries more than that each month. They're not in the same league at all. And that's before I point out that Shannon is not a second city airport so I'm not sure how it's relevant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,710 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Try it at rush hour - if you're flying at 10am you have to be there at 9, which means you hit rush hour unless you leave before it. Normally I get the 16 bus to the airport.

    If you're expecting a bus direct from south Dublin to Casement as a minor secondary airport, you'll have another thing coming... could be even longer at rush hour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    markpb wrote: »
    Shannon carried 1.4m pax last year. Dublin carries more than that each month. They're not in the same league at all. And that's before I point out that Shannon is not a second city airport so I'm not sure how it's relevant.

    I wasn't making a comparison - someone said planes wouldn't fly from a smaller airport to where I want to go. My comparison with Shannon was of where the planes fly.
    MYOB wrote: »
    If you're expecting a bus direct from south Dublin to Casement as a minor secondary airport, you'll have another thing coming... could be even longer at rush hour.

    Well, yes, I'd expect a bus to go to an airport used by the people of the city. It would just mean an extra little leg on the Clondalkin route.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Must we drag this off topic into a second airport debate?

    It's not happening. Not any time in the near future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,710 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Well, yes, I'd expect a bus to go to an airport used by the people of the city. It would just mean an extra little leg on the Clondalkin route.

    And require you to go to the city centre to get on to said bus. Not saving you any time at all.

    Anyway, you thinking, most likely inaccurately, that you could save a little time does not justify the multiple millions required or the almost inevitable actual loss of service a second airport would cause.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    MYOB wrote: »
    And require you to go to the city centre to get on to said bus. Not saving you any time at all.

    Anyway, you thinking, most likely inaccurately, that you could save a little time does not justify the multiple millions required or the almost inevitable actual loss of service a second airport would cause.

    I wasn't primarily thinking of myself or other Dublin westsiders; I was primarily thinking of country folk. But as Nimrod says, this is thread creep. Back onto the new-runway subject.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭notharrypotter


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    based on 8% per annum compound growth based on 20,200,000 (2013 figure) we would hit that number at the end of 2016 it would be 25,5 million... It would be good if the cork route was reinstated, would speed things up...
    The figure they use is 3% not 8%


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the figure of 3% is total BS! The May figures and year to date ones will be announced shortly, I think it is running at close to 10% growth so far this year... ok so according to the below, it was 7% up to and including April, this was before a few new route launches etc, will be interesting to see May figures...

    http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/14-05-09/1_8_Million_Passengers_In_April_At_Dublin_Airport.aspx

    Almost 5.9 million passengers have travelled through Dublin Airport in the first four months of this year, a 7% increase over the same period last year.


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