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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭Simon Gruber Says


    What's "BUMP"?

    It's a function of a particular engine to deliver extra power if required by operation at a higher speed temporarily. It is however not available for an A330 and is not something that should be used regularly as it's shortens periods between engine maintenance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    It's a function of a particular engine to deliver extra power if required by operation at a higher speed temporarily. It is however not available for an A330 and is not something that should be used regularly as it's shortens periods between engine maintenance.

    Bump thrust IS available on some of the A330s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 handtight


    In response to the points raised on Baldonnel/Casement (CAB) as a second airport.

    Distance between the two facilities is 20Km or 20mins travel time.

    As pointed out CAB operates at maybe 10% capacity which is a waste of public money. As a piece of prime real estate it currently attracts no income whatsoever, a lost opportunity.

    Instead of upgrading CAB to full airport, why not operate as T3 for Dublin Airport? On this basis could be used for regional traffic to UK/Europe or as a dedicated facility for Ryanair or Stobart Air. Passengers can be bused quickly between the two and long term a rail link could be considered.

    This would relieve the pressure on main airport and hence obviate the need for a second runway.

    Final point, Belfast supports two airports and competition between them helps drive down costs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭Simon Gruber Says


    basill wrote: »
    Bump thrust IS available on some of the A330s.

    You mean by using the TO/GA detent rather than FLX/MCT for takeoff or an actual BUMP function on the throttle levers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭BonkeyDonker


    What's "BUMP"?

    I'm assuming the Emirates/Etihad 777's wouldn't attempt a takeoff on 28/10 if wet, what about if dry?

    Why not - they would not be even close to fully loaded - its only a six hour flight from an aircraft that can do 12+ hours with ease.

    handtight wrote: »
    In response to the points raised on Baldonnel/Casement (CAB) as a second airport.

    Distance between the two facilities is 20Km or 20mins travel time.

    As pointed out CAB operates at maybe 10% capacity which is a waste of public money. As a piece of prime real estate it currently attracts no income whatsoever, a lost opportunity.

    Instead of upgrading CAB to full airport, why not operate as T3 for Dublin Airport? On this basis could be used for regional traffic to UK/Europe or as a dedicated facility for Ryanair or Stobart Air. Passengers can be bused quickly between the two and long term a rail link could be considered.

    This would relieve the pressure on main airport and hence obviate the need for a second runway.

    Final point, Belfast supports two airports and competition between them helps drive down costs.

    Why not run it past weston and that can be used for the really small stuff.....

    But on a serious note - it would cause chaos - you would need a dedicated rail line, as you could not guarantee connection times otherwise. And that is without even taking into account the money required to upgrade BAL to a suitable level for commercial operations - think terminal, fire services, poor weather equipement etc. Then there would be airspace issues, especially with the Dublin mountains in close proximity.

    It would be easier, both financially and politically to just throw the money at Dublin - you would get more bang for your buck.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Dublinflyer


    handtight wrote: »
    In response to the points raised on Baldonnel/Casement (CAB) as a second airport.

    Distance between the two facilities is 20Km or 20mins travel time.

    As pointed out CAB operates at maybe 10% capacity which is a waste of public money. As a piece of prime real estate it currently attracts no income whatsoever, a lost opportunity.

    Instead of upgrading CAB to full airport, why not operate as T3 for Dublin Airport? On this basis could be used for regional traffic to UK/Europe or as a dedicated facility for Ryanair or Stobart Air. Passengers can be bused quickly between the two and long term a rail link could be considered.

    This would relieve the pressure on main airport and hence obviate the need for a second runway.

    Final point, Belfast supports two airports and competition between them helps drive down costs.

    In theory this would be a great idea but the financial investment to even run BAL as a T3 type operation would be huge. They would need ATC, a full fire service, police and ground handling, public transport. I don't think the local residents would be too happy about 737's landing and taking off either. They would also have to create a fuel storage area that could handle mid size commercial aircraft. I also doubt we could guarantee a 20 minute transfer from there to Dublin airport.

    It's an idea that was first suggested back in 1995 and has been debated since but I can't ever see it happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Suasdaguna1


    You mean by using the TO/GA detent rather than FLX/MCT for takeoff or an actual BUMP function on the throttle levers?

    Simon, your barking with the big dogs here. Just leave it. Bump is available on most 330 models.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭Simon Gruber Says


    Simon, your barking with the big dogs here. Just leave it. Bump is available on most 330 models.

    I'm only going from what I've been told. Obviously my information was wrong then.

    Please explain it to me then if you're one of the "big dogs" as you say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Can we please not have another thread descend into "I know more than you know" bull****. Keep it civil everyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    with baldonnel, it would still leave the problem of having a very short main runway at the current airport! Surely tender prices now will be well cheaper when construction starts to ramp up again though increased capital expenditure and we see a return of the home / commercial building industry. Also when does PP lapse?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭markpb


    handtight wrote: »
    Instead of upgrading CAB to full airport, why not operate as T3 for Dublin Airport? On this basis could be used for regional traffic to UK/Europe or as a dedicated facility for Ryanair or Stobart Air. Passengers can be bused quickly between the two and long term a rail link could be considered.

    Why? It's not good for passengers, it makes connections difficult, it makes providing high capacity public transport to the airport difficult, it forces airlines to split to their staff or hire more, it reduces any economies of scale that the airport might enjoy and, has been pointed out, runs the risk of stalling badly when it's neighbours object.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,361 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Just because the airport has a runway it still lacks so much of the civil airport infrastructure compared to that already in place at DUB. It would be cost prohibitive compared to expanding at DUB.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    handtight wrote: »
    Final point, Belfast supports two airports and competition between them helps drive down costs.
    The two Belfast airports combined handle less than a third of Dublin's traffic. Seriously, thinking folk in Belfast know that the two airport model is costing them.

    And if they wanted evidence of that, they only need to look at the traffic volumes in DUB and weep.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    If the A330 a/c has bump thrust then this is what the thrust levers look like.

    http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/Zab999/ThrustBump.jpg

    It is selected by pushing the thrust levers to the toga position and pushing at least one of the red bump buttons that hide under guarded covers. A "B" will appear in green above the N1. From memory it gives about another 2.5% increase in thrust. Where its available there are specific performance charts for the relevant runways that our engineers have prepared. Just to be clear it isn't just selected willy nilly.

    From memory its available on one of the 200s and the 300s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,508 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The two airport model is not a good thing for Belfast, Dublin Airport is in fact reporting increasing patronage from Northern Ireland, as neither of the 2 Belfast airports have significant enough mass to attract anything more than internal and sun holiday flights. at present Growth, I can see DUB passing 23.5mil by 2016. Hopefully when that time comes DAA will be ready to build.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Its because theres only 1 flight to America and it is more expensive. If they tried a flight to Orlando and maybe Boston the passengers to Dublin would probably decrease significantly.

    You also have to remember that most of the 500,000 passengers are from South Eastern NI. Very few will come from here.

    And I don't know about you but its kind of selfish and only thinking about Dublin and yourself when talking about building to draw in more passengers. We need to have an airport for us, its hardly fair to expect everybody on the island to travel to Dublin, I mean get a grip.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    The two Belfast airports combined handle less than a third of Dublin's traffic. Seriously, thinking folk in Belfast know that the two airport model is costing them.

    And if they wanted evidence of that, they only need to look at the traffic volumes in DUB and weep.

    Dublin is miles away from here. You only think about Belfast, the Belfast airport has to serve all of Northern Ireland and Donegal. There are people North and West of Belfast you know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭daithi84


    What a joke, given that the Dublin - Dubai and Abu'dhabi is one of the busiest routes would having a longer runway to accommodate the A380's not make sense. Build the runway we can take more and larger planes and then your passenger numbers will increase!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    owenc wrote: »
    Dublin is miles away from here. You only think about Belfast, the Belfast airport has to serve all of Northern Ireland and Donegal. There are people North and West of Belfast you know.


    If there is ever a motorway to Letterkenny then the difference between Belfast and Dublin becomes negligible as the greater frequency of flights, destinations, options and connections will make the extra 45 minutes in the car worth it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    relaxed wrote: »
    If there is ever a motorway to Letterkenny then the difference between Belfast and Dublin becomes negligible as the greater frequency of flights, destinations, options and connections will make the extra 45 minutes in the car worth it.

    The only road developments in that region is the N2/A2 towards Derry and when that's build the North West will be much closer to DUB than it currently is.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The only road developments in that region is the N2/A2 towards Derry and when that's build the North West will be much closer to DUB than it currently is.

    I'm 3 hours from Dublin and Donegal is even further. I don't think most people are going to be travelling the whole across the island of Ireland for a flight just to please some selfish individuals from Dublin. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    owenc wrote: »
    Its because theres only 1 flight to America and it is more expensive. If they tried a flight to Orlando and maybe Boston the passengers to Dublin would probably decrease significantly.

    You also have to remember that most of the 500,000 passengers are from South Eastern NI. Very few will come from here.

    And I don't know about you but its kind of selfish and only thinking about Dublin and yourself when talking about building to draw in more passengers. We need to have an airport for us, its hardly fair to expect everybody on the island to travel to Dublin, I mean get a grip.
    owenc wrote: »
    Dublin is miles away from here. You only think about Belfast, the Belfast airport has to serve all of Northern Ireland and Donegal. There are people North and West of Belfast you know.
    owenc wrote: »
    I'm 3 hours from Dublin and Donegal is even further. I don't think most people are going to be travelling the whole across the island of Ireland for a flight just to please some selfish individuals from Dublin. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

    I think you need to read through this thread again. I haven't seen anyone put down Belfast airport (although I'm not sure which one of the two you're referring to) or argue that Belfast shouldn't have any airport.
    It has simply been pointed that having 2 small competing airports rather than one large airport is detrimental to Belfast. It means that it can't attract the large international carriers that a large airport like Dublin can.
    This is simple economics.
    Also this is a thread about DUB building a new runway when passenger numbers get above a certain level, therefore people are going to speculate about where / when these passengers will come from.


  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭BonkeyDonker


    daithi84 wrote: »
    What a joke, given that the Dublin - Dubai and Abu'dhabi is one of the busiest routes would having a longer runway to accommodate the A380's not make sense. Build the runway we can take more and larger planes and then your passenger numbers will increase!!!

    Dublin can in theory handle an A380 as it is - ok, not as efficiently as some other airports, but it can handle it. To handle it efficiently would require additional investment by the airport. But is there a proper business case for it?

    At the moment it would only be Emirates operating one into Dublin, and I could see them going double daily before they send in an A380, as it allows more flexibility - especially useful for business and first class pax and additional freight capacity - a big plus out of Dublin apparently.

    A similar comparison could be made with the number of B747,s that have visited Dublin over the years - Apart from Aer Lingus I cannot remember scheduled B747 flights to Dublin - even the smaller B777 were a rare sight.

    owenc wrote: »
    I'm 3 hours from Dublin and Donegal is even further. I don't think most people are going to be travelling the whole across the island of Ireland for a flight just to please some selfish individuals from Dublin. Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

    That may be the case that you are happy to use Belfast - but look at the wider picture - these days people will fly from A)Where there are flights that they want to take, and B) Where flights are cheaper. These days people will travel and extra hour or two to save money on most things, flights included. And with its larger population base Dublin can offer both a larger range of destinations, and higher passenger figures - driving down prices between airlines as they look for the passengers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    owenc wrote: »
    . Of course we will use Belfast and keep our money here. The only time I will ever use Dublin is when going long haul!

    Speak for yourself but I think most people will choose an airport that best suits their needs at a particular time, be it price, location, Flight departure times, parking, direct flight, whatever.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Actually naw they won't drive for three hours..


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    I live in Louth which is half way between Dublin and Belfast give or take 20mins each way. We always opt for Dublin because Ryanair operates from there and they are cheap. In Belfast, they have easyJet but they don't offer a lot of destinations.

    Residents living in Donegal area would most likely travel down to Dublin because they have a wide range of destinations available and it's probably more convenient for them as they would rather fly direct than two flight segments unless it's across the Atlantic.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    owenc wrote: »
    Actually naw they won't drive for three hours..

    You do realise that people that live near Shannon regurlarly drive to Dublin because the destinations the want to go to are only served from there and not from Shannon? And at times it's actually cheaper even when you include petrol and parking. It's exactly the same thing when it comes to the choice of Belfact or Dublin.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,855 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    daithi84 wrote: »
    What a joke, given that the Dublin - Dubai and Abu'dhabi is one of the busiest routes would having a longer runway to accommodate the A380's not make sense. Build the runway we can take more and larger planes and then your passenger numbers will increase!!!
    Dublin does not needs a runway to handle A380's......as it is the B773's that currently operate from DUB do not need a longer runway as the current destinations do not require the full range of these aircraft.

    In terms of future growth the current runway is fine for the EI A350's on order. However if DUB wanted routes to PEK, HKK or BKK then a longer runway would be needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,508 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    owenc wrote: »
    Its because theres only 1 flight to America and it is more expensive. If they tried a flight to Orlando and maybe Boston the passengers to Dublin would probably decrease significantly.

    You also have to remember that most of the 500,000 passengers are from South Eastern NI. Very few will come from here.

    And I don't know about you but its kind of selfish and only thinking about Dublin and yourself when talking about building to draw in more passengers. We need to have an airport for us, its hardly fair to expect everybody on the island to travel to Dublin, I mean get a grip.

    I haven't made a statement one way or the other as to what airport policy on the Island of Ireland should be, so on that basis I would say it is you who needs to get a grip.

    If you're asking my opinion though, we should mimic the policy of other small nations, like the Netherlands, Denmark etc. small countries pick a central airport and develop it as the country's main international hub, with smaller airports in the regions catering for local demand to mostly European destinations, I feel this is how Ireland should proceed in it's transport policy.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    You do realise that people that live near Shannon regurlarly drive to Dublin because the destinations the want to go to are only served from there and not from Shannon? And at times it's actually cheaper even when you include petrol and parking. It's exactly the same thing when it comes to the choice of Belfact or Dublin.

    But this is Northern Ireland not shannon.


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