Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

johnnycage2008

basill wrote: »

Certain airports around the world have terrain issues or are overly sensitive about noise which dictates which runway will be in use and pilots will be expected to take a max tailwind to land or depart.

Thanks Basill

i guess Dublin is not one of those airports that are sensitive about noise !!

basill

Not so. There are noise monitoring stations all over the place around the airport environs and performance restrictions to ensure that we make certain climb gradients to minimise the effect on the neighbours. A few years ago the air France cargo 747 did a spectacular job of setting off all the bells and whistles by doing a turn at 500ft off the end of the runway. Turns out the crew had entered in the incorrect SID (standard instrument departure).

EchoIndia

basill wrote: »

A few years ago the air France cargo 747 did a spectacular job of setting off all the bells and whistles by doing a turn at 500ft off the end of the runway. Turns out the crew had entered in the incorrect SID (standard instrument departure).

Which, I believe, is why Dublin ATC, when issuing en-route clearances, ask pilots to state their first flyover waypoint on departure. It seems to puzzle a lot of crews, who presumably don't face such a "quiz question" at other airports that they operate to. Why the jet and non-jet SIDs cannot be given sufficiently distinct designators to avoid the perceived need for this time-consuming procedure, I don't know.

BonkeyDonker

EchoIndia wrote: »

Which, I believe, is why Dublin ATC, when issuing en-route clearances, ask pilots to state their first flyover waypoint on departure. It seems to puzzle a lot of crews, who presumably don't face such a "quiz question" at other airports that they operate to. Why the jet and non-jet SIDs cannot be given sufficiently distinct designators to avoid the perceived need for this time-consuming procedure, I don't know.

It is one of the reasons. From what I have read elsewhere other no based operators had similiar issues - especially when the likes of Liffy had the similiar designators (LIFFY4A/B for example) for the big-uns and litte-uns..

Since the introduction for the KISHA depts, etc for the little'uns this should be less of an issue.

Dublinflyer

It's going to be interesting when two f-16's fly over Croke Park this Saturday for the match. Now they are noisy when they past you, but very quiet while heading towards you!

IRLConor

FuzzyDunlop100 wrote: »

Where are the F-16's coming from? an RAF base in the UK?

Germany based F-16's. But will be flying from RAF Lakenheath in Cambridgeshire.

Tenger wrote: »

Personally I'm hoping for an east-west transit of the stadium with a left hand turn over the city to head east over south Dublin.........I'll be in my garden from 1215!!

Aren't those flyovers normally done along the long axis of the stadium?

IRLConor

Tenger wrote: »

That does make more sense. WestDub states elsewhere that it looks like they will approach along the line towards DUB rwy28, then turn south to run in over Hill 16 end.

That would make sense to me, best view for the crowd.

I presume they'd turn east pretty soon after and head back. I'll have to have the longer lens on the camera at the ready, I might be able to get a shot of them from my window.

dub172

They will be holding over Lusk until called in. Then dropping to 800ft over the estury, on eastern side of M1 and running north south over Croker, clearance 800ft- 500kts. should be awsome.

johnnycage2008

for the past 2 weeks planes have been taking off west to east. But the wind seems to be coming from the South in fact... if coming South would they also use west to east take off ?

cheers

Idbatterim

http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/14-09-04/Almost_2_3_Million_Passengers_In_August_At_Dublin_Airport.aspx
Almost 2.3 Million Passengers In August At Dublin Airport
Almost 2.3 million passengers passed through Dublin Airport in August, a 6% increase on the same month last year. Passenger volumes to and from continental Europe increased by 6% with just under 1.3 million passengers travelling to European destinations during the month. Almost 695,000 passengers travelled to UK destinations in August, an increase of 3% compared to last year. Transatlantic traffic to North America increased by 14% with 260,000 passengers travelling on this route sector last month. Traffic to other international destinations - mainly flights to the Middle East and charters to North Africa - increased by 17% to just under 67,000. Passenger numbers on domestic routes grew by 8% with 8,000 people travelling on domestic flights last month. Dublin Airport has welcomed almost 14.6 million passengers in the first eight months of this year, a 7% increase on the same period in 2013.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/14-09-04/Almost_2_3_Million_Passengers_In_August_At_Dublin_Airport.aspx
Almost 2.3 Million Passengers In August At Dublin Airport
Almost 2.3 million passengers passed through Dublin Airport in August, a 6% increase on the same month last year. Passenger volumes to and from continental Europe increased by 6% with just under 1.3 million passengers travelling to European destinations during the month. Almost 695,000 passengers travelled to UK destinations in August, an increase of 3% compared to last year. Transatlantic traffic to North America increased by 14% with 260,000 passengers travelling on this route sector last month. Traffic to other international destinations - mainly flights to the Middle East and charters to North Africa - increased by 17% to just under 67,000. Passenger numbers on domestic routes grew by 8% with 8,000 people travelling on domestic flights last month. Dublin Airport has welcomed almost 14.6 million passengers in the first eight months of this year, a 7% increase on the same period in 2013.

7% year on year equals 21,500,000 passengers for this year. Impressive considering many said we would never see the passengers levels of 2007-2008 ever again. How wrong they were. It's likely we will match and ultimately beat those figures by the end of this decade. Aer Lingus's transfer plans could even see Dublin achieve 30m passengers at some stage. That's some number for an island of 5m.

KoolKid

johnnycage2008 wrote: »

for the past 2 weeks planes have been taking off west to east. But the wind seems to be coming from the South in fact... if coming South would they also use west to east take off ?

cheers

Is it my imagination or is runway 10 in use much more lately?

KoolKid

KoolKid wrote: »

Is it my imagination or is runway 10 in use much more lately?

On shore breeze caused by the warm weather.

johnnycage2008

some good info I thought I would share from Met office

From excel attachment provided. Dublin Airport

Number of hours

Wind Direction in 10's of degrees
2010 2011 2012 2013
0 4 1 0 4
1 136 67 93 89
2 111 76 121 70
3 110 56 115 81
4 166 96 173 109
5 137 83 142 143
6 120 85 151 124
7 104 106 141 162
8 196 130 133 265
9 152 112 129 222
10 142 124 132 235
11 221 186 203 240
12 316 225 270 321
13 347 312 348 366
14 302 385 360 372
15 223 310 273 215
16 148 199 172 121
17 107 130 74 85
18 73 90 70 87
19 119 166 104 151
20 152 308 174 219
21 215 337 272 266
22 301 544 364 374
23 377 611 544 592
24 502 670 630 594
25 433 649 562 517
26 600 785 596 521
27 641 543 645 495
28 503 437 471 441
29 375 254 321 340
30 307 197 214 219
31 251 123 226 221
32 206 95 165 159
33 225 90 126 100
34 187 86 129 97
35 121 46 74 76
36 130 46 67 67

18MonthsaSlave

Deleted User wrote: »

Aer Lingus's transfer plans could even see Dublin achieve 30m passengers at some stage. That's some number for an island of 5m.

Expect More!
The Balearic Islands receive 10 million visitors every year with a population of about a million.
Ireland has a good product to offer and comparing traffic to the number of inhabitants is not a good metric.
With business and tourism Dublin could be attracting many more business Customers and Tourists.
Ireland speaks the Lingua Franca and and currency is the one most Europeans have in their pocket.
If most Europeans wanted sun during the Summer they'd just stay home in the garden, don't over-estimate its attraction for tourism.

basill

Yep....which is demonstrated by the strategy of AL over the past 4-5 years to change the mix of inward to outward pax. Think at the moment its running around 65/55. I expect it to diverge even more to such a point where the company will be less reliant on the vagaries of the local Irish market.

http://www.daa.ie/gns/media-centre/press-releases/14-09-10/Dublin_Airport_Faces_Stagnation_Due_To_Regulator_s_Misguided_Stance.aspx

Passenger growth at Dublin Airport will be stifled over the next five years unless the aviation regulator reverses its draft determination on airport charges, Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) has warned.

In a formal submission to the Commission for Aviation Regulation (CAR), DAA warns that traffic growth at Dublin Airport, which handles more than 80% of all international flights to and from the State, will be damaged by the regulator’s failure to allow essential investments aimed at improving facilities at Terminal 1, growing transfer passenger numbers, expanding the use of the main runway, and delivering additional aircraft parking areas.

The submission also points out that the regulator’s position on a number of these planned investments is directly contrary to the Government’s emerging National Aviation Policy, which supports the development of Dublin Airport as a secondary hub, and prioritises the delivery of new routes and services, particularly to new and emerging markets.

“Dublin Airport is currently enjoying strong passenger growth, which stimulates the Irish economy and helps grow inbound tourism,” said DAA Chief Executive Kevin Toland. “But the aviation regulator’s short-sighted decision to veto key investments needed to allow Dublin Airport to win additional business will constrain passenger growth over the next five years and significantly impede the strategic development of the airport. The regulator has opted for stagnation at a time when we should be expanding rapidly.”

The regulator’s draft determination also contains fundament errors that could affect safety and security at Dublin Airport, according to Mr Toland. “CAR’s stance on security staffing levels and essential investments in security screening procedures makes no sense. The regulator has vetoed mandatory investments in new security screening equipment needed to comply with new European regulations and has also refused to allow a number of airfield enhancements that will help improve safety.”

The Irish Aviation Authority, which is responsible for aviation security oversight within the State and is Dublin Airport’s safety regulator, has also raised significant concerns in relation to CAR’s proposals in a separate submission to the regulator.

Mr Toland described the regulator’s decision to ignore evolving Irish Government policy in relation to the aviation sector as inexplicable. “The Commission for Aviation Regulation had to be aware of the draft National Aviation Policy, which was published in May, and one must therefore ask why the regulator chose to ignore the broad Government policy priorities that are clearly set out in the document.”

DAA’s strategy is to maximise passenger growth opportunities at Dublin Airport over the next five years by keeping charges flat, offering generous incentives to airlines to increase their business and investing in key areas that will help deliver additional traffic growth and a better travel experience.

“Charges at Dublin Airport are already lower than the European average and the regulator’s suggested further reduction is both unwarranted and uneconomic,” Mr Toland said. “Our policy of not increasing charges and prudently investing in incentives and improved infrastructure has delivered three and a half years of growth at Dublin Airport, but the regulator has opted to impede growth and provide a poorer product for passengers.”

In its draft determination on airport charges for 2015-2019, CAR has vetoed almost €170 million worth of essential upgrades - including projects specifically aimed at boosting passenger numbers and investments in new security measures that are required by law - and proposed lowering airport charges by an unsustainable 22% over the next five years.

CAR has blocked projects that would help deliver additional growth at Dublin Airport, such as an improved transfer facility to boost this fast-growing segment of Dublin Airport’s business, an upgrade to Terminal 1, which is now more than 40 years old, and airfield improvements to improve safety and allow increased use of the existing runway at busy times.

The regulator has also decided to delay the delivery of a new parallel runway at Dublin Airport beyond the next five years, leaving Ireland at a significant disadvantage to other western European countries than have runway capacity to accommodate new long haul routes to the Far East. Currently, the construction of a second runway will be funded once passenger numbers reach 23.5 million - which will be in 2018/2019 according to CAR’s estimates. But the regulator has increased that threshold to 25 million passengers per year, pushing the delivery of a new runway into the next decade.

“Access to new and emerging markets in the Far East is vital for the Irish economy and for the tourism sector, but CAR mistakenly believes that it makes sense to postpone Ireland’s ability to offer direct connections to these vital locations,” Mr Toland said.

The foundation for the regulator’s financial calculations on operating costs is also flawed, as it is based on a scenario whereby Dublin Airport would operate with 100 fewer security staff while 580 other staff would be outsourced. But the regulator fails to explain how its forecast savings could be achieved, given prevailing Irish law in relation to the transfer of staff, or how Dublin Airport could continue to operate in those circumstances.

The regulator has also ignored the wishes of Dublin Airport passengers, as upgrades to Terminal 1, which was built in the early 1970s, are strongly supported by passengers. A detailed study of T1 passengers found that not only did they support investments in improved facilities, but that they would be willing to pay for them through higher airport charges.

“The research showed that passengers rejected the option of lower airport charges, and said they’d prefer to pay extra for improvements to the T1 arrivals area, the terminal’s facade, and check-in and security areas,” Mr Toland said. “The findings of the research couldn’t be clearer – passengers using T1 want a better product and are more than willing to pay for it. Our plan will deliver a significant improvements to Terminal 1 with no increase in Dublin Airport charges over the next five years.”

CAR issued its draft determination on Dublin Airport charges in May and is due to issue its final determination by the end of this month.

Seriously when are they EVER going to learn !

18MonthsaSlave

Regulator has told them to f*ck off.
DAA should take the answer they've been given, cut their passenger charges, increase their passenger numbers getting closer to maximum theoretical capacity, then go back to Regulator and get their runway and infrastructure investment because at that stage the regulator won't be able to say no to them. It's a setback for them not a failure.

Responding to cold hard calculated facts as to what passenger numbers the airport can support with an opinion poll of the travelling public in T1 is laughable. Did they ask the passengers how they felt before or after they had walked all the way to or from pier d gate 117 or whatever. "do you think money should be spent on a magic conveyor belt which will whisk you all the way from baggage check to your departure gate"..."why yes, that would be wonderful" and this gets translated in to "passengers using T1 want a better product and are more than willing to pay for it."

Seriously ! Run the place down and then try and repair the damage when the airport is overcrowded and running at max capacity. So push the penalty back on to the passengers for years. Sounds like a good plan.

18MonthsaSlave

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously ! Run the place down and then try and repair the damage when the airport is overcrowded and running at max capacity. So push the penalty back on to the passengers for years. Sounds like a good plan.

Regulator isn't telling them to stop maintaining current infrastructure, just that they can't build more at Customers expense. Deal with it. If they want to expand and get more facilities then offer the low passenger fees and introductory offers for new routes and when they grow by a few million more they can force the regulators hand. It's not the end of the world.

18MonthsaSlave

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Regulator isn't telling them to stop maintaining current infrastructure, just that they can't build more at Customers expense. Deal with it. If they want to expand and get more facilities then offer the low passenger fees and introductory offers for new routes and when they grow by a few million more they can force the regulators hand. It's not the end of the world.

It's called kicking the can down the road. The DAA are trying to facilitate easy growth and expansion with minimum pain. Whereas what you're saying, which is actually what's going to happen, is that when they get to max capacity any work to help improve/easy/facilitate/remediate will all have to be done at the inconvience of customers/passengers.

A bit like building a new stadium during the football season or building the M50 with only one bridge and two lanes each way. This is what the CAR wants to happen, but I thought we had learned out lesson in this country but obviously not.

18MonthsaSlave

Deal with it.
If DAA could have made a strong case for improving facilities due to safety concerns then they would have got their new infrastructure. They didn't.
Whatever about it being a win it certainly isn't a loss for the travelling public and airlines who will enjoy lower costs divied up between themselves in some fashion.
If this thread was in the consumer issues sub-forum there would be a different view on the decision of the regulator.

18MonthsaSlave

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Deal with it.
If DAA could have made a strong case for improving facilities due to safety concerns then they would have got their new infrastructure. They didn't.
Whatever about it being a win it certainly isn't a loss for the travelling public and airlines who will enjoy lower costs divied up between themselves in some fashion.
If this thread was in the consumer issues sub-forum there would be a different view on the decision of the regulator.

LMAO I guess I'll just "deal" with it then LOL.

18MonthsaSlave

Deleted User wrote: »

LMAO I guess I'll just "deal" with it then LOL.

You don't appear to be dealing with it and I don't have anything to say which will give you comfort other than if the growth at the airport continues at current pace then the additional infrastructure will be greenlighted incrementally.

lord lucan

I'm with GVHOT on this,it's very short sighted by CAR. The only parties who are happy are the airlines who pay less in charges and pocket the difference. Don't believe for a minute that the airlines will reduce their fares to reflect the lower charges,they'll just increase their bottom line.

DUB has finally some sort of vision of where it wants to go and what it aims to be but I fear this will set it back if allowed. DUB is far from perfect and theres lots of areas that need addressing but cutting revenue will only stymie it.

markpb

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Deal with it.

Why so abrasive?

Whatever about it being a win it certainly isn't a loss for the travelling public and airlines who will enjoy lower costs divied up between themselves in some fashion. If this thread was in the consumer issues sub-forum there would be a different view on the decision of the regulator.

I'm not sure about that. Am I glad that my flight ticket could be as much as €1.82 cheaper in five years time? Sure, hurray, unending joy! Will I enjoy being in an airport which (potentially) is less comfortable to use and is slower to process me and my luggage - probably not so much. If. in 2019, someone tells me that my security queue time has gone up but my ticket was €1.82 cheaper, I'd probably hand over the €1.82 there and then.

lord lucan

So after all the posturing by CAR about decreasing charges at DUB they're being instructed by PO'D to allow the charges to go through. To me it seems to be a bit of common sense being applied but no doubt it'll raise the ire of the airlines,FR already calling for the disbandment of CAR.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/regulator-directed-to-protect-dublin-airport-viability-1.1931204

lord lucan

lord lucan wrote: »

So after all the posturing by CAR about decreasing charges at DUB they're being instructed by PO'D to allow the charges to go through. To me it seems to be a bit of common sense being applied but no doubt it'll raise the ire of the airlines,FR already calling for the disbandment of CAR.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/regulator-directed-to-protect-dublin-airport-viability-1.1931204

Common bloody sense at last, the country is trying to get back up on its feet and CAR is trying to choke a company that will expand, create jobs, invest money and bring much needed money into the country. Thank you Po'D.

Tenger

Deleted User wrote: »

It's called kicking the can down the road. .......

A bit like .... building the M50 with only one bridge and two lanes each way. This is what the CAR wants to happen, but I thought we had learned out lesson in this country but obviously not.

This was my argument re T2 back a few years ago too.
"overpriced White Elephant" my bum!

Tenger

Tenger wrote: »

This was my argument re T2 back a few years ago too.
"overpriced White Elephant" my bum!

My only issue with T2 is its location, not enough stands. Sure Aer Lingus are still using T1 stands and the cargo ones as well.