Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Jamie2k9

https://www.independent.ie/business/dublin-airport-chief-rules-out-new-terminal-until-flyers-hit-55m-a-year-36844818.html

There's no need for a third terminal at Dublin Airport until annual passenger numbers exceed 55 million - probably in more than 20 years' time, according to DAA chief executive Dalton Philips.

Mr Philips said the capital's air gateway was returning to "normalised" growth. Mr Philips said that to cope with 55 million passengers a year without a third terminal, "modifications" would need to be made to existing infrastructure.

"A terminal is drop-off, check-in, security, a hold area and retail," said Mr Philips, adding that the "pinch point" is on gates and aircraft stands.

"At some stage there will be the need for a new terminal," said Mr Philips, who took on the CEO role at the DAA last year. "We don't see it now."

Jamie2k9

LXFlyer wrote: »

Well it has definitely been an obstacle until now. That was stated to me directly in conversations with bus company management.

The point is that it is utterly ludicrous that the airport does not have a network of local services across north Dublin facilitating employees as well travellers. Heathrow provides a good template of how those local services should work.

There haven’t been any significant network changes since Network Direct - we will have to wait and see what the BusConnects project throws up.

I agree its a problem but a decision to run local bus routes wouldn't make or break a route on it. Three isn't profit (or enough profit) to go commercially given the nature of a service which would really need to be 24 hours or at least 4am-1am.

The NTA need to put up cash for such a route and until they do no service will happen. NTA themselves could easily negotiate fees with daa directly if they wanted to as well. The daa wouldn't turn down extra revenue if there was a major scaling up of bus services.

All users of the airport pay and so should buses because its a lucrative business for them and will be until the metro arrives. Airport infrastructure needs to be maintained which includes roads so all parties should contribute.

I would also be very skeptical of take up from a staff prospective of any bus routes and customers. I don't think it will be as high as people think on here, many will take the view its not worth it.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I agree its a problem but a decision to run local bus routes wouldn't make or break a route on it. Three isn't profit (or enough profit) to go commercially given the nature of a service which would really need to be 24 hours or at least 4am-1am.

The NTA need to put up cash for such a route and until they do no service will happen. NTA themselves could easily negotiate fees with daa directly if they wanted to as well. The daa wouldn't turn down extra revenue if there was a major scaling up of bus services.

All users of the airport pay and so should buses because its a lucrative business for them and will be until the metro arrives. Airport infrastructure needs to be maintained which includes roads so all parties should contribute.

I would also be very skeptical of take up from a staff prospective of any bus routes and customers. I don't think it will be as high as people think on here, many will take the view its not worth it.

Of course the NTA need to stump up the cash for the additional subsidy for any new PSO services - that’s stating the obvious. I was explaining the historical reluctance to do it by Dublin Bus which was as a result of the DAA charges on PSO services that they would have to absorb.

As for patronage - well designed services with timetables that meet demand generally generate good custom. One look at the healthy loadings of workers to Dundrum on the recently introduced early Sunday morning services on the 75 backs that up.

I don’t expect everyone to use them, but I would be far more positive than you about this. Most people don’t have a choice to drive unless they’re on the Swords QBC and even then the operating hours are insufficient.

Opening up a local network of PSO routes operating from 04:00 to 01:00 is what should happen at the airport, in the same mould of Heathrow. It would open the airport up as a viable employer for people who don’t live on the Swords QBC and who don’t have a car.

People drive in this country because, particularly for orbital journeys, the public transport options are either very poor or non-existent. For such a big source of employment to have no connectivity with much of North Dublin is frankly daft, and no amount of skepticism on your part will ever convince me otherwise.

Hopefully we will see signs that the BusConnects project will support this in June.

LXFlyer

Agree with the earlier posters regarding facilities - a proper bus station with an enclosed waiting area, live info, full timetables, an independent information desk, and possibly a retail/coffee outlet, similar to the central bus station at Heathrow, is what Dublin Airport should be aspiring to.

LXFlyer

rushfan wrote: »

Have a look at the definition of a station, doesn't actually have to be a building, although obviously it can. It's not a car park either, although cars pass through. Have you contacted the daa with your views re Victoria station etc????

You’re being obtuse for the sake of it - you know well what people mean.

Shedite27

Irish Steve wrote: »

Given the time delay between some services, the absence of a warm, dry and wind free waiting area with seats and an on line real time departure board that's accurate is a travesty, having to stand in an open shelter with very little protection from the elements in the depth of winter because there's no way to be sure if the bus is on time is no pleasure, and makes the last stage of the journey home a very variable experience. We've done exactly this on several occasions over this last winter, and it's not much fun. For parents with children it must be close on torture.

Yeah would be great to have a nice big warm place alongside the bus stops for people to wait for their departure, with seating and food outlets, maybe a bar or two, free wifi.

Heck, why stop at one of them lets build two of those magical buildings - call them T1 and T2

trellheim

All users of the airport pay and so should buses because its a lucrative business for them and will be until the metro arrives. Airport infrastructure needs to be maintained which includes roads so all parties should contribute.

Thats a bit of a stretch. The DAA's mandate should be to encourage and join up transport links instead of "everyone pays". As it is, the rampant commercialism and lack of focus on passenger needs is clearly evident. Like it or not it is the gateway to Ireland and since it attracts very large amount of motor traffic most of which would switch if given any decent alternative , they should have a mandate to make it an easy switch from their end.

LXFlyer

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yeah would be great to have a nice big warm place alongside the bus stops for people to wait for their departure, with seating and food outlets, maybe a bar or two, free wifi.

Heck, why stop at one of them lets build two of those magical buildings - call them T1 and T2

I don’t think that’s really acceptable - a separate waiting facility for bus passengers that’s close to the bus stops with the facilities I listed above is what’s needed, rather than forcing people to wait in the terminals which are not that close by when you consider people walking with luggage.

Irish Steve

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yeah would be great to have a nice big warm place alongside the bus stops for people to wait for their departure, with seating and food outlets, maybe a bar or two, free wifi.

Heck, why stop at one of them lets build two of those magical buildings - call them T1 and T2

As presently structured, using the terminal is not possible, the reliability of timings on some services means that you have to be able to see the real time departure boards, and they are only available in the shelter at the stop for the route. If you wait in the terminal there is a very real risk of missing the bus you are planning to travel on, due to the distance to get to the shelters. Not all passengers can walk fast, even more so if they have luggage in tow, and the buses don't wait that long in some cases, the 109a is an example of this, if there's only one or two people waiting, it will be there for a lot less than a minute, as it's a circular route, the airport is not the end of the timetable. If you're not in the shelter, you won't be travelling on that one.

Amazingly enough, for a country that gets so much rain and cool weather we invest very very little in protection from said weather. You would honestly think we would be the best. Unfortunately it comes down to money, businesses quite simply need to be legally obliged to do something before they actually will. Imagine the improvement in customer satisfaction they would achieve if they spent a few million on covered areas for the drop off area, bus waiting area and boarding area and protection for passengers that are required to walk out and board their aircraft via steps.

Rock of Gibraltar

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/dublin-airport-chief-rules-out-new-terminal-until-flyers-hit-55m-a-year-36844818.html

55m!? that's a bit worrying, Terminal 1 already feels like its bursting at the seems.

dring

New South Gates are awful, last night landed 0105, finally got off the plane at 0135 as there were "no ground staff to see us across the road", then had to walk 200m along the side of a building, then had to wait and queue to get on bus, another long queue at passport control. Got to carpark 90 mins after landing. OK it was a busy time in the airport with flights coming back from the rugby but it would have been worse if it was raining. Since T2 opened it has given Aer Lingus a big advantage on Ryanair in terms of comfort and convenience. Now for me this removes that advantage

embraer170

The South Gates are really the worst experience the airport has to offer.

VG31

Where exactly in the terminal do the buses leave from for the South Gates?

The Veteran

There were significant delays in flights arriving last night too before any delays disembarking are taken into account. There were big gaps in flights and then “groups” of flights coming in. T2 is a disaster to try and judge when passengers will actually be off planes - long taxis and delays in getting stands are normal in T2.

Jamie2k9

VG31 wrote: »

Where exactly in the terminal do the buses leave from for the South Gates?

It depends, departures are 331-337 where EIR go however for example in the evenings T2 arrivals will be to pier 4 and passenger enter via USPC ground gates and up escalator to arrivals.

New South Gates are awful, last night landed 0105, finally got off the plane at 0135 as there were "no ground staff to see us across the road", then had to walk 200m along the side of a building, then had to wait and queue to get on bus, another long queue at passport control. Got to carpark 90 mins after landing. OK it was a busy time in the airport with flights coming back from the rugby but it would have been worse if it was raining. Since T2 opened it has given Aer Lingus a big advantage on Ryanair in terms of comfort and convenience. Now for me this removes that advantage

9 or 10 EI arrivals then (most delayed) is going to stretch ground staff.

trellheim

My pet peeve at the moment is T1 departures road outside the building, after a year with one lane gone due to the works in t1, they've finished - but left pavement sticking out to block the traffic lane - thus causing the traffic jams to continue. DAA's refusal to engage with reality continues.

Tenger

VG31 wrote: »

Where exactly in the terminal do the buses leave from for the South Gates?

Have used them twice to depart but first time arriving there was about 2 weeks ago. It’s like a step back in time from the T2 experience of that last few years. Luckily we didn’t have a delay getting off but it was raining as we walked it to join the queue for the bus.

Why not run an elevated walkway (with 1 way doors) from the top of the escalators in T2 over to that outhouse? With a lower level leading into immigration?
The construction costs would be repaid over time by the lack of need for so many buses being driven around.

Peregrine

Tenger wrote: »

Why not run an elevated walkway (with 1 way doors) from the top of the escalators in T2 over to that outhouse? With a lower level leading into immigration?
The construction costs would be repaid over time by the lack of need for so many buses being driven around.

It would get in the way of a permanent T2 extension. The South Gates is a temporary structure with planning permission for, I think, 5 years.

rushfan

trellheim wrote:

My pet peeve at the moment is T1 departures road outside the building, after a year with one lane gone due to the works in t1, they've finished - but left pavement sticking out to block the traffic lane - thus causing the traffic jams to continue. DAA's refusal to engage with reality continues.

I think the problem there is with the level of pedestrian traffic crossing the road plus most of those dropping off want to get as near to the doors as they possibly can.

Idbatterim

April numbers up 5%, reckon it will be 31,500,000 next year. See numbers rising around this percent going forward, for the foreseeable future. (barring a recession) Until new runway comes along or Ryanair start feeding aer lingus traffic...

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/dublin-airport-sets-new-april-record-with-2.6-million-passengers

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

April numbers up 5%, reckon it will be 31,500,000 next year. See numbers rising around this percent going forward, for the foreseeable future. (barring a recession) Until new runway comes along or Ryanair start feeding aer lingus traffic...

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/dublin-airport-sets-new-april-record-with-2.6-million-passengers

I agree. Runway slots are filling up in peak months. The early flights are starting to get earlier and earlier. Lufty has moved from circa 6am to just after 5am. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see more and more flights leaving earlier. I believe Stobart are looking at it because their connecting passengers want to get in to Dublin earlier to have more time to make the early TA flights.

LXFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree. Runway slots are filling up in peak months. The early flights are starting to get earlier and earlier. Lufty has moved from circa 6am to just after 5am. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see more and more flights leaving earlier. I believe Stobart are looking at it because their connecting passengers want to get in to Dublin earlier to have more time to make the early TA flights.

You might want to check your timetables before posting statements of fact.

The first LH flight is at 05:55 in the summer 2018 timetable. ;-)

LXFlyer

LXFlyer wrote: »

You might want to check your timetables before posting statements of fact.

The first LH flight is at 05:55 in the summer 2018 timetable. ;-)

Apologies winter schedule is 0515 for the 983, so I was half right

The Veteran

Summer Schedule has a very short time of no arrivals during a day; routinely last arrivals are after 02:00 and first arrivals can be before 04:00.

Jamie2k9

The LH shift from 06.50 to anywhere from 05.05-06.00 a few years ago is not because of runway/slots at DUB but rather better connections in FRA given the time difference. It also why KL, AF run AMS/CDG so early as well.

The reason traffic has increased between 05.30-05.45 and particularly 05.45-06.00 is a 66% and 33% discount in charges.

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The LH shift from 06.50 to anywhere from 05.05-06.00 a few years ago is not because of runway/slots at DUB but rather better connections in FRA given the time difference. It also why KL, AF run AMS/CDG so early as well.

The reason traffic has increased between 05.30-05.45 and particularly 05.45-06.00 is a 66% and 33% discount in charges.

I didn’t say the move was because of runway slots, I said in general the runway slots are filling up.

I then said that the early flights are getting earlier and earlier as a result of the slots filling up. Rather than the departure wave starting at 0630-0700 its now starting circa 0600-0630 because the slots are filling and there being none from 0630 onwards so aircraft have to leave earlier.

I gave an example of the Lufty flight leaving circa 0500, the statement of fact is that it is leaving earlier not leaving earlier because of slots filling. It already has a slot.

The reason those times are being discounted Jamie is to encourage operators to depart early at times traditionally not favoured by airlines and passengers.

Again the statement of fact was that airplanes were leaving earlier and earlier because that’s when the available slots are.

Bussywussy

I see some of the EI TA ops is really suffering with delays because of all the tows and lack of stands,it's surely only going to get worse next month when Cathay etc arrive.

Donegal Storm

Sat on the tarmac waiting for a stand for near 20 minutes yesterday, seems to be happening more and more frequently

billie1b

Peregrine wrote: »

It would get in the way of a permanent T2 extension. The South Gates is a temporary structure with planning permission for, I think, 5 years.

The octagon in Pier A was a temporary structure for 5 years and is still here 20 odd years later, never trust what DAA say