Cadetships 2013

optimus125

colm911 wrote: »

optimus125 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on the 12 years minimum service, after training, for the air corps?[/quot

Personally I'd love it, good salary and doing something you love. What could be wrong with it?

Yeah well every aspect of it sounds super, except that 12 years is a long long time to sign up to anything... One could have completely different ideas about what they want to do with their life in 4 years time, but would then be stuck in the DF for another 8.

colm911

optimus125 wrote: »

colm911 wrote: »

Yeah well every aspect of it sounds super, except that 12 years is a long long time to sign up to anything... One could have completely different ideas about what they want to do with their life in 4 years time, but would then be stuck in the DF for another 8.

Well if you want to leave you can pay too. Might cost a bit though seeing as it's not the average training (pilot)

optimus125

colm911 wrote: »

optimus125 wrote: »

Well if you want to leave you can pay too. Might cost a bit though seeing as it's not the average training (pilot)

Ah yeah, but yeah quite costly indeed reimbursing the cost of that pilot training!

tomato1988

optimus125 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on the 12 years minimum service, after training, for the air corps?

Thats only if you do a degree isn't it?

optimus125

tomato1988 wrote: »

Thats only if you do a degree isn't it?

Nope, it's just 12 years service! (Unless I'm mistaken).

It wasn't me!

To be honest, I don't see an issue with a minimum service time like that when it's a decision as significant as a career (and going in as an officer, I should hope people see it as a proper career, rather than a stopgap or something that's fun for now - If that's how you feel, there are hundreds behind you who want it more) and especially given the cost of training pilots. Think of it as a disincentive to use the DF as a way to get trained in order to get a job as a commercial pilot, which is perfectly sensible. Anyway, 12 years' service is probably not the biggest commitment you'll ever make. If that scares you, don't get married or buy a house.

optimus125

It wasn't me! wrote: »

To be honest, I don't see an issue with a minimum service time like that when it's a decision as significant as a career (and going in as an officer, I should hope people see it as a proper career, rather than a stopgap or something that's fun for now - If that's how you feel, there are hundreds behind you who want it more) and especially given the cost of training pilots. Think of it as a disincentive to use the DF as a way to get trained in order to get a job as a commercial pilot, which is perfectly sensible. Anyway, 12 years' service is probably not the biggest commitment you'll ever make. If that scares you, don't get married or buy a house.

Well there aren't many careers that require you to make an immediate 14 year commitment, so in that sense, it makes it all the more questionable. And a disincentive is exactly what it is. Buying a house is monetary issues... Twelve years of anyones life is a very long time in my opinion. Then again that might appeal to older applicants (the limit's 26 or 27 though so I believe), as they may want to make that commitment and have that security... But for younger candidates I think it's a huge and dangerous decision.

colm911

Yeah but I think the point being made in the post previous to yours is that places are so limited and so hard to acquire you really have to be interested in this as a career, if I was 19 or 20 again I would have no problem signing a 40 year contract, never mind a twelve year one

optimus125

colm911 wrote: »

Yeah but I think the point being made in the post previous to yours is that places are so limited and so hard to acquire you really have to be interested in this as a career, if I was 19 or 20 again I would have no problem signing a 40 year contract, never mind a twelve year one

Ok well take the example of a 17/18 year old, just meeting the age requirement, and let's say he/she perfectly fits all their criteria, is a perfect candidate, and believes that this is the perfect job for him, wants to be a pilot, etc etc... So he gets in. He is now locked in the system, and who knows whether or not it'll still be what he wants to do in 5 years time? LC students having to choose a college course is seen as a fairly big decision, as they are all at quite a young age and hence might not know what they want to do with their lives, and that's only a 4 year degree... But imagine making the commitment of joining the air corps at that age?

colm911

optimus125 wrote: »

Ok well take the example of a 17/18 year old, just meeting the age requirement, and let's say he/she perfectly fits all their criteria, is a perfect candidate, and believes that this is the perfect job for him, wants to be a pilot, etc etc... So he gets in. He is now locked in the system, and who knows whether or not it'll still be what he wants to do in 5 years time? LC students having to choose a college course is seen as a fairly big decision, as they are all at quite a young age and hence might not know what they want to do with their lives, and that's only a 4 year degree... But imagine making the commitment of joining the air corps at that age?

I'm sure after fitness test, tests, interviews etc if they get through all them and get called up to do the 15 months training it will give them an insight if they want to continue with it, remember they'll only probably recruit 4 to 6 but will bring 15 to 20 to the training. Plenty of opportunity to decide if it's for you or not and also enough time to let candidates that barely missed out to have a go. Life is full of hard decisions. May as well start them early ;-)

It wasn't me!

optimus125 wrote: »

Ok well take the example of a 17/18 year old, just meeting the age requirement, and let's say he/she perfectly fits all their criteria, is a perfect candidate, and believes that this is the perfect job for him, wants to be a pilot, etc etc... So he gets in. He is now locked in the system, and who knows whether or not it'll still be what he wants to do in 5 years time? LC students having to choose a college course is seen as a fairly big decision, as they are all at quite a young age and hence might not know what they want to do with their lives, and that's only a 4 year degree... But imagine making the commitment of joining the air corps at that age?

I disagree. An LC student choosing a college course is making a serious investment in their future career in most cases and likely has a very good idea of what they want to do, if not exactly. And a previous poster nailed it. The places are so few and so valuable that people need to be committed to it. What if they go in and five years down the line it's not their cup of tea? They can buy out of it if they really want, or they can suck it up. After six or seven it might well be back to exactly what they want. There need to be strong disincentives to stop people taking valuable places which could go to people who'll stick it out for the career. A certain number will always have to leave naturally as time goes on as places further up the promotion chain are fewer and more competitively sought, but the Aer Corps has a particular issue in that the skillset it teaches pilots is both extremely valuable and extremely difficult and expensive to acquire privately. The disincentive to leaving only balances out the incentives offered by external commercial forces. Anything else would just result in the Aer Corps expensively training pilots for commercial airlines without ever reaping any benefit from it.

colm911

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I disagree. An LC student choosing a college course is making a serious investment in their future career in most cases and likely has a very good idea of what they want to do, if not exactly. And a previous poster nailed it. The places are so few and so valuable that people need to be committed to it. What if they go in and five years down the line it's not their cup of tea? They can buy out of it if they really want, or they can suck it up. After six or seven it might well be back to exactly what they want. There need to be strong disincentives to stop people taking valuable places which could go to people who'll stick it out for the career. A certain number will always have to leave naturally as time goes on as places further up the promotion chain are fewer and more competitively sought, but the Aer Corps has a particular issue in that the skillset it teaches pilots is both extremely valuable and extremely difficult and expensive to acquire privately. The disincentive to leaving only balances out the incentives offered by external commercial forces. Anything else would just result in the Aer Corps expensively training pilots for commercial airlines without ever reaping any benefit from it.

Spot on!!!!

optimus125

It wasn't me! wrote: »

They can buy out of it if they really want, or they can suck it up.

Ah yeah I agree with a lot of what you're saying. This (quoted) is really the heart of my speculations though. Just the fact that if one was to 'suck it up' until they were finished their time, they're suddenly minus x amount of years of their life that they could have spent pursuing whatever else it is that they want to do. Or there's the buy out option, yes.

Topper Harley

optimus125 wrote: »

Ah yeah I agree with a lot of what you're saying. This (quoted) is really the heart of my speculations though. Just the fact that if one was to 'suck it up' until they were finished their time, they're suddenly minus x amount of years of their life that they could have spent pursuing whatever else it is that they want to do. Or there's the buy out option, yes.

If there's something else that they'd rather pursue, then perhaps they should focus on that instead of joining the Air Corps.

optimus125

Topper Harley wrote: »

If there's something else that they'd rather pursue, then perhaps they should focus on that instead of joining the Air Corps.

Again. The point I was trying to make is that what somebody wants to do could greatly change between the ages of 18 and 25.

It wasn't me!

Of course it can, but that's the thing. People have to learn that their commitments mean something, and realistically, an 18 year old needs to be prepared to understand that before taking on a privilege such as becoming a pilot in the Aer Corps or joining the army and doing a degree, which again comes with a substantial minimum service clause in the contract. Same as taking on a significant loan or anything, if you receive a benefit, and a skill with the commercial value of a pilot's licence is a huge benefit, you need to be committed to the repayment, which in this case means service. Or you can buy your way out of it, but that's not terribly useful for the DF, so they make it a big disincentive. People can change what they want as they go, but most people ultimately have commitments which mean they don't have the luxury of pursuing whatever they want, whenever they want, be it family, mortgages or other loans, or whatever. Anyone can end up stuck doing something they'd rather not. This is just another example of the same forces everyone is faced with all the time. If someone can't commit to that, then the DF certainly shouldn't have to be the one who loses in that arrangement, being the net benefactor.

discus

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Of course it can, but that's the thing. People have to learn that their commitments mean something, and realistically, an 18 year old needs to be prepared to understand that before taking on a privilege blah blah blah

If someone is 18 years old, and gets selected to become a commissioned officer, you can rest assured that they are clued up enough to have made that decision. 99% don't make it, and that'd because they take on adults who can think for themselves.

optimus125

discus wrote: »

If someone is 18 years old, and gets selected to become a commissioned officer, you can rest assured that they are clued up enough to have made that decision. 99% don't make it, and that'd because they take on adults who can think for themselves.

If you say so!

Jacques Mesrine

Anyone hear any word from the army cadets? I went for an interview with the air corps the other day and didn't progress to the next stage. Unfortunately I wasn't able to bluff my knowledge on technical aptitude. The guy seemed like he knew what answers he was looking for. On the bright side of things, it is a good taste of things to come.

tomato1988

Jacques Mesrine wrote: »

Anyone hear any word from the army cadets? I went for an interview with the air corps the other day and didn't progress to the next stage. Unfortunately I wasn't able to bluff my knowledge on technical aptitude. The guy seemed like he knew what answers he was looking for. On the bright side of things, it is a good taste of things to come.

I think they are sending an email out on Friday

Jacques Mesrine

tomato1988 wrote: »

I think they are sending an email out on Friday

Thanks tomato. Hopefully it will be a speedy process.

Diamondsandrose

Got an email confirmation from army cadets and called forward to psychometric verification. Anyone else?

tomato1988

Diamondsandrose wrote: »

Got an email confirmation from army cadets and called forward to psychometric verification. Anyone else?

Yeah just got it there

TwentiethCent

Ya just got one there wonder how many people progressed ??

tomato1988

TwentiethCent wrote: »

Ya just got one there wonder how many people progressed ??

How many applied?

banbatoyota

Through the first hoop anyway!

TwentiethCent

No idea usually around 1400 ?!

banbatoyota

I believe it was upwards of 2,500 last year. Don't see any reason it would have changed - certainly not gone down too much anyway

TwentiethCent

Wasn't dat for all 3tho ?

banbatoyota

Possibly, couldn't say for sure. I know Navy and Army did the same psychometric tests last year (and maybe Aer Corps, not sure about them).