Program Analysis - Programs rated, debated and berated.

Will Heffernan

harpstilidie wrote: »

Ok, so I've been doing this workout (kindly adapted by Will) now for about 6 weeks and it's going really well. Since joining the gym in early March I've lost about 5 or 6kg in weight (hopefully fat loss) and gained some muscle especially my arms and my stomach is slightly flatter but no 6-pack yet. Should I start to vary my workout a bit with other exercises or just increase sets/reps or weight?

Weight.

My diet is OK in my opinion. It could be better I know but I'm happy enough with it. I don't eat too much rubbish and have quite good self-control when it comes to junk food/takeaways etc. but I'm still enjoying my food and allow myself 1 takeaway a week. Snacks I maybe have some fruit or nuts, sometimes a biscuit. Thanks, Dan.

Try to improve on 'OK' and report back in 6 weeks.

harpstilidie

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Weight.


Try to improve on 'OK' and report back in 6 weeks.

Thanks. I've increased the weight slightly over the last couple of weeks but only by 2/3 kg. Will try and increase it more!

calfmuscle

Would really appreciate some advice on my new routine please.
I just started back to the gym yesterday after doing very little since March (broke some ribs so was out for a few weeks then got lazy).
Im female, 79kg, 5f 8, play rugby (15's, a little 7's and tag) also horse ride 4 times a week. My job is pretty hands on and hard going on my back t-spine especially!

I can get to the gym about 4 times a week.

Yesterday I did this

Foam roller 10 mins before work out just to loosen out my back

Front squat - 45kg X 3 sets X 7 reps (pretty shaky doing this)

Leg press - 102kg X 3 sets X 10 reps (slow return to neutral, really hit the glutes)

Assisted pull up close grip - 30kg assistance X 3 sets X 8 reps (I tore my rotator cuff, labrum and biceps in december and its still affecting my left arm)

Press up - 3 sets of 15 girly push ups (in march I could do full push ups so will push this up quickly)

Plank - 1 minute hold

Lower tricep extensions - 1 minute hold

Today will be

Incline press

bench press

bent over rows

running biceps curls

Triceps extensions

Ill try some flys and lateral raises but im not sure the left arm will be able

Cardio

either 5k (25 mins) twice a week

or sprints 50m & 75m 50 second intervals X 10 each (might have to build up to this again)

plus tag twice a week and 7's tournament on Saturday

Thanks for your help!:)

Will Heffernan

calfmuscle wrote: »

Would really appreciate some advice on my new routine please.
I just started back to the gym yesterday after doing very little since March (broke some ribs so was out for a few weeks then got lazy).
Im female, 79kg, 5f 8, play rugby (15's, a little 7's and tag) also horse ride 4 times a week. My job is pretty hands on and hard going on my back t-spine especially!

I can get to the gym about 4 times a week.

Yesterday I did this

Foam roller 10 mins before work out just to loosen out my back

Front squat - 45kg X 3 sets X 7 reps (pretty shaky doing this)

Leg press - 102kg X 3 sets X 10 reps (slow return to neutral, really hit the glutes)

Assisted pull up close grip - 30kg assistance X 3 sets X 8 reps (I tore my rotator cuff, labrum and biceps in december and its still affecting my left arm)

Press up - 3 sets of 15 girly push ups (in march I could do full push ups so will push this up quickly)

Plank - 1 minute hold

Lower tricep extensions - 1 minute hold

Today will be

Incline press

bench press

bent over rows

running biceps curls

Triceps extensions

Ill try some flys and lateral raises but im not sure the left arm will be able

Cardio

either 5k (25 mins) twice a week

or sprints 50m & 75m 50 second intervals X 10 each (might have to build up to this again)

plus tag twice a week and 7's tournament on Saturday

Thanks for your help!:)

Do it properly...I mean tell us what you are doing properly.

'Running bicep curls'? That tells me only a little more than nothing.

Lay it out properly. What does a week of training look like?

calfmuscle

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Do it properly...I mean tell us what you are doing properly.

'Running bicep curls'? That tells me only a little more than nothing.

Lay it out properly. What does a week of training look like?

Sorry I don't know the weights of the upper limb work out as of yet as I will obviously be weaker now than I was before I stopped training in March.

I used to -

Incline press 24kg (12kg dumbbells) x 3 x 8

bench press 28kg (14kg dumbells) x 3 x 8

bent over rows 24kg (12kg dumbbells) x 3 x 12

running biceps curls 10kg dumbbells x 3 x 24 (so 12 each arm)

Triceps extensions 10kg dumbbells x 3 x 10

Since I hurt the left arm I could only lateral raise 0.5kg X 8 (very difficult) the right arm can do 6kg x 8

The rest of the week,

Monday - tag rugby and horses and short gym session

Single leg RDL 16kg dumbbell X 3 X 8 each leg

Deadlift 50kg X 3 X 8

Back extensions X 3 X 6

lower triceps extension x 3 x 1 minute hold

Core - side plank, side leg lifts, bicycle


Tuesday work late - cardio am

Wed and thursday working 8-7 no work out

Friday horses tag match and mainly legs,

Front squat as before

Leg press as before

hamstring curls on balance ball 15 x 3

Abduction machine - 90kg (used to do this easily)

Adduction machine - 90kg (used to do this easily)

Reverse lung with 5 kg med ball twist

Arnie walk with 8kg dumbells (might have to drop to 6kg) X 3 X 6 each leg

Saturday
will be upper limb as above

Sunday
Cardio 5km or sprints

harpstilidie

harpstilidie wrote: »

Cardio: Bike- 15km or Treadmill- 5km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-40kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 40kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 20.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 15lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 20.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 20.

3A. Bicep Curl- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 30lbs, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 20.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 5km.

Ok, so I've been doing this workout (kindly adapted by Will) now for about 6 weeks and it's going really well. Since joining the gym in early March I've lost about 5 or 6kg in weight (hopefully fat loss) and gained some muscle especially my arms and my stomach is slightly flatter but no 6-pack yet. Should I start to vary my workout a bit with other exercises or just increase sets/reps or weight?

My diet is OK in my opinion. It could be better I know but I'm happy enough with it. I don't eat too much rubbish and have quite good self-control when it comes to junk food/takeaways etc. but I'm still enjoying my food and allow myself 1 takeaway a week. Snacks I maybe have some fruit or nuts, sometimes a biscuit. Thanks, Dan.

Ok, so I've increased weight etc from the above workout to the following:

Cardio: Treadmill- 6km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-48kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 45kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 25.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 40lbs, 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 20lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 25.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 25.

3A. Bicep Curl- 35lbs, 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 18kg, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 25.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 6km.

I've increased weight in the exercises by a few KG as you can see and for the core work I have increased each set by 5 reps.

I am now down to 10st 11lbs from about 12st since I joined the gym in mid March so I'm reasonably happy and can definitely see some toning especially in my arms and back and slightly in my stomach. So I've lost about 15lbs in 23ish weeks? I'm assuming I haven't lost any more as I've also put on muscle. Still want to reach my goal of getting some nice abs! Should I adapt my programme? Any new exercises I should try or will I just continue with this programme and increase weight again? Really do appreciate the help.

dor843088

harpstilidie wrote: »

Ok, so I've increased weight etc from the above workout to the following:

Cardio: Treadmill- 6km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-48kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 45kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 25.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 40lbs, 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 20lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 25.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 25.

3A. Bicep Curl- 35lbs, 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 18kg, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 25.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 6km.

I've increased weight in the exercises by a few KG as you can see and for the core work I have increased each set by 5 reps.

I am now down to 10st 11lbs from about 12st since I joined the gym in mid March so I'm reasonably happy and can definitely see some toning especially in my arms and back and slightly in my stomach. So I've lost about 15lbs in 23ish weeks? I'm assuming I haven't lost any more as I've also put on muscle. Still want to reach my goal of getting some nice abs! Should I adapt my programme? Any new exercises I should try or will I just continue with this programme and increase weight again? Really do appreciate the help.

Your bicep curl and bent over row are the same weight ???
6k treadmill before weight training? ??
Hardly any pushing movements???
No lower body weight training? ?

This routine is a mess imo

harpstilidie

dor843088 wrote: »

Your bicep curl and bent over row are the same weight ???
6k treadmill before weight training? ??
Hardly any pushing movements???
No lower body weight training? ?

This routine is a mess imo

Does it make a difference if they are the same weight? There is 5lbs difference.

What's wrong with cardio before weights? My goal is to lose body fat so I don't see this a problem.

There is pushing movements in the dumbbell press.

Can you suggest any alternatives?

dor843088

harpstilidie wrote: »

Does it make a difference if they are the same weight? There is 5lbs difference.

What's wrong with cardio before weights? My goal is to lose body fat so I don't see this a problem.

There is pushing movements in the dumbbell press.

Can you suggest any alternatives?

If your goal is simply to lose bodyfat then I suppose you are achieving your goal and thats what counts. I suggest you take a look at the other thread on here titled routine advice please . The difference between yours and his is night and day.

harpstilidie

dor843088 wrote: »

If your goal is simply to lose bodyfat then I suppose you are achieving your goal and thats what counts. I suggest you take a look at the other thread on here titled routine advice please . The difference between yours and his is night and day.

I had a look at that thread but his goal is to gain muscle while mines is to reduce body fat and be toned (i.e. have a 6 pack or close to it!). I have gained some muscle due to the weight lifting obviously. I just don't want to be wasting my time in the gym and hopefully I'm not doing that with my current programme.

runawaybishop

harpstilidie wrote: »

I had a look at that thread but his goal is to gain muscle while mines is to reduce body fat and be toned (i.e. have a 6 pack or close to it!). I have gained some muscle due to the weight lifting obviously. I just don't want to be wasting my time in the gym and hopefully I'm not doing that with my current programme.

Toning = gaining muscle. Have a go at doing your weights first and then your cardio. Increase your weights when you can do your set, the last rep should be a struggle (not with bad form though).

harpstilidie

runawaybishop wrote: »

Toning = gaining muscle. Have a go at doing your weights first and then your cardio. Increase your weights when you can do your set, the last rep should be a struggle (not with bad form though).

I should struggle with the last rep of each set or the last rep of the final set?

Will Heffernan

harpstilidie wrote: »

I should struggle with the last rep of each set or the last rep of the final set?

That's not absolutely necessary with regards meeting your specific goals.

Will Heffernan

calfmuscle wrote: »

Sorry I don't know the weights of the upper limb work out as of yet as I will obviously be weaker now than I was before I stopped training in March.

I used to -

Incline press 24kg (12kg dumbbells) x 3 x 8

bench press 28kg (14kg dumbells) x 3 x 8

bent over rows 24kg (12kg dumbbells) x 3 x 12

running biceps curls 10kg dumbbells x 3 x 24 (so 12 each arm)

Triceps extensions 10kg dumbbells x 3 x 10

Since I hurt the left arm I could only lateral raise 0.5kg X 8 (very difficult) the right arm can do 6kg x 8

The rest of the week,

Monday - tag rugby and horses and short gym session

Single leg RDL 16kg dumbbell X 3 X 8 each leg

Deadlift 50kg X 3 X 8

Back extensions X 3 X 6

lower triceps extension x 3 x 1 minute hold

Core - side plank, side leg lifts, bicycle


Tuesday work late - cardio am

Wed and thursday working 8-7 no work out

Friday horses tag match and mainly legs,

Front squat as before

Leg press as before

hamstring curls on balance ball 15 x 3

Abduction machine - 90kg (used to do this easily)

Adduction machine - 90kg (used to do this easily)

Reverse lung with 5 kg med ball twist

Arnie walk with 8kg dumbells (might have to drop to 6kg) X 3 X 6 each leg

Saturday
will be upper limb as above

Sunday
Cardio 5km or sprints

Are you still following this program? How are you getting on?

calfmuscle

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Are you still following this program? How are you getting on?

No I got a new job and started preseason (rugby) training so cut it all down to a 2 day split.

front squat - 50kg x 6 x 4 sets

walking lunge 40kg six each leg by 4 sets

Step ups 20kg six each leg by 4 sets

Leg press 110kg x 6 x 4

core - plank 1 min, russian twists etc

Day 2

Assisted 8 x 3 sets pull up (30kg)

shoulder press 28kg 8 x 3

Chest press 39kg 8 x 3

Dumbell press up with row 8kg x8 x 3 (very poor form with this)

I finally got my MRI results from a shoulder injury last christmas and I have cartilage damage and bone in my left shoulder, so Im considering leaving out chest pressing and shoulder pressing from now on as these cause pain.

Will Heffernan

harpstilidie wrote: »

Ok, so I've increased weight etc from the above workout to the following:

Cardio: Treadmill- 6km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-48kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 45kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 25.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 40lbs, 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 20lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 25.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 25.

3A. Bicep Curl- 35lbs, 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 18kg, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 25.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 6km.

I've increased weight in the exercises by a few KG as you can see and for the core work I have increased each set by 5 reps.

I am now down to 10st 11lbs from about 12st since I joined the gym in mid March so I'm reasonably happy and can definitely see some toning especially in my arms and back and slightly in my stomach. So I've lost about 15lbs in 23ish weeks? I'm assuming I haven't lost any more as I've also put on muscle. Still want to reach my goal of getting some nice abs! Should I adapt my programme? Any new exercises I should try or will I just continue with this programme and increase weight again? Really do appreciate the help.

What about this program? How is it going?

Brian?

calfmuscle wrote: »

No I got a new job and started preseason (rugby) training so cut it all down to a 2 day split.

front squat - 50kg x 6 x 4 sets

walking lunge 40kg six each leg by 4 sets

Step ups 20kg six each leg by 4 sets

Leg press 110kg x 6 x 4

core - plank 1 min, russian twists etc

Day 2

Assisted 8 x 3 sets pull up (30kg)

shoulder press 28kg 8 x 3

Chest press 39kg 8 x 3

Dumbell press up with row 8kg x8 x 3 (very poor form with this)

I finally got my MRI results from a shoulder injury last christmas and I have cartilage damage and bone in my left shoulder, so Im considering leaving out chest pressing and shoulder pressing from now on as these cause pain.

There's a serious imbalance between your pushing and pulling there. You really need to look at that.

calfmuscle

Brian? wrote: »

There's a serious imbalance between your pushing and pulling there. You really need to look at that.

Sorry unrelated to your post but Iforgot to say I do 20mX4 with 20kg on the prowler!

Have a match but Ill come back to this, thanks!

harpstilidie

Will Heffernan wrote: »

What about this program? How is it going?

Good to hear from you. Still doing it yeah. Seems to be going OK. I have decided to cut down the amount of cardio in the gym so I have cut out the 6km cycling and I am now running 6km 2 days a week I am not in the gym. So in the gym 3 times per week still, with 2 more additional days of 6km running.

Getting married in October so really want to be in tip top shape so want to work that extra bit hard in the next month or so. Should I continue with this programme or vary it a bit?

calfmuscle

Brian? wrote: »

There's a serious imbalance between your pushing and pulling there. You really need to look at that.

Thanks for that, I wasn't too worried about the pulling part of my routine as I was trying to be rugby specific. Any suggestions on progressing this would be great.
As I said some of the cartilage is gone from one shoulder. So I have pain/catching when doing chest and shoulder presses. Any suggestions on something I could replace these with?

Will Heffernan

harpstilidie wrote: »

Good to hear from you. Still doing it yeah. Seems to be going OK. I have decided to cut down the amount of cardio in the gym so I have cut out the 6km cycling and I am now running 6km 2 days a week I am not in the gym. So in the gym 3 times per week still, with 2 more additional days of 6km running.

Getting married in October so really want to be in tip top shape so want to work that extra bit hard in the next month or so. Should I continue with this programme or vary it a bit?

If it is working and you are making progress and you are also enjoying yourself then I think you are doing better than most people out there.

harpstilidie

Will Heffernan wrote: »

If it is working and you are making progress and you are also enjoying yourself then I think you are doing better than most people out there.

Progress has slowed up slightly it seems in the last few weeks but I am enjoying myself. Think the switch to less cardio in the gym and more outside had helped and my knee seems to be holding up fine. Wouldn't mind mixing it up a bit with some other exercises if you could recommend any. Are kettlebell exercises any good or should I stick to the free weights?

Will Heffernan

calfmuscle wrote: »

Thanks for that, I wasn't too worried about the pulling part of my routine as I was trying to be rugby specific. Any suggestions on progressing this would be great.
As I said some of the cartilage is gone from one shoulder. So I have pain/catching when doing chest and shoulder presses. Any suggestions on something I could replace these with?

I wouldn't actually concern myself with replacing these exercises or movements myself. I'd focus on the pulling movements as well as doing 'work' to improve your shoulder health generally.

How's your shoulder feel doing push ups?

calfmuscle

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I wouldn't actually concern myself with replacing these exercises or movements myself. I'd focus on the pulling movements as well as doing 'work' to improve your shoulder health generally.

How's your shoulder feel doing push ups?

Thanks!

The push up is just sore at the end of range. So at the lowest part of the movement. This is the problem with the shoulder and chest press as well. Im fine for most of the movement it just catches/grinds when my hands are nearly inline with my chest. (pec end of range).

Shoulder distractions with rings are great, they really help warm them up!

Will Heffernan

harpstilidie wrote: »

Progress has slowed up slightly it seems in the last few weeks but I am enjoying myself.

Try improving the density of your work. I find that with myself and others that once my gains start to plateau in any exercise I usually try to increase the density of my training before I change programs or substitute an exercise. If I was doing:
1A. Lateral Pulldown-48kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 45kg, 4 sets of 15.

I would try to see what the best time I could get this done in...i.e try to complete the 4 sets of 15 reps of each with great form and no recovery between sets, reps or exercises.

Think the switch to less cardio in the gym and more outside had helped and my knee seems to be holding up fine. Wouldn't mind mixing it up a bit with some other exercises if you could recommend any. Are kettlebell exercises any good or should I stick to the free weights?

If you can get some good KB instruction where you are then KB training would be a great addition or substitution for the work you are already doing.

Will Heffernan

calfmuscle wrote: »

Thanks!

The push up is just sore at the end of range. So at the lowest part of the movement. This is the problem with the shoulder and chest press as well. Im fine for most of the movement it just catches/grinds when my hands are nearly inline with my chest. (pec end of range).

Shoulder distractions with rings are great, they really help warm them up!

Ditch all your pressing movements...or more specifically any of the movements that give you discomfort and focus on the stuff that doesn't hurt...that and as I said earlier...doing work for your 'shoulder health'.

I'd be willing to bet you'll notice little decrement in your performance overall.

harpstilidie

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Try improving the density of your work. I find that with myself and others that once my gains start to plateau in any exercise I usually try to increase the density of my training before I change programs or substitute an exercise. If I was doing:
1A. Lateral Pulldown-48kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 45kg, 4 sets of 15.

I would try to see what the best time I could get this done in...i.e try to complete the 4 sets of 15 reps of each with great form and no recovery between sets, reps or exercises.


If you can get some good KB instruction where you are then KB training would be a great addition or substitution for the work you are already doing.

Thanks for that. Not sure about the KB instruction side of things but wouldn't mind trying a few KB exercises. My gym membership is up in about a months time, then I'm getting married, moving house, and then away for a few weeks so probably won't re-join a gym until January so want to put the work in now.

Will Heffernan

harpstilidie wrote: »

Thanks for that. Not sure about the KB instruction side of things but wouldn't mind trying a few KB exercises. My gym membership is up in about a months time, then I'm getting married, moving house, and then away for a few weeks so probably won't re-join a gym until January so want to put the work in now.

In that case I would focus on what you are already comfortable with and just look to 1. Generate more intensity...do more of what you are already doing and or try harder and 2. Increase the density of your training done....do what you are currently doing but do it faster...that way you'll have more time to do gunz at the end of every session

harpstilidie

Will Heffernan wrote: »

In that case I would focus on what you are already comfortable with and just look to 1. Generate more intensity...do more of what you are already doing and or try harder and 2. Increase the density of your training done....do what you are currently doing but do it faster...that way you'll have more time to do gunz at the end of every session

Do more as in increase reps? Or weight?

I'll definitely try and increase the density.

calfmuscle

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Ditch all your pressing movements...or more specifically any of the movements that give you discomfort and focus on the stuff that doesn't hurt...that and as I said earlier...doing work for your 'shoulder health'.

I'd be willing to bet you'll notice little decrement in your performance overall.

Thanks again, I think you right, before the MRI I just wanted to build muscle to help protect the joints as much as possible. But now I know how bad it is there is no point wearing it down further (well except in games :pac: )