Program Analysis - Programs rated, debated and berated.

Mickk

Hey Will,

what do you think about the very basic program that it seems like 90% of people who wouldn't read forums/get trainers are on, a 3-4 day split push/pull/legs or back/biceps, chest/triceps, shoulders/traps and leg days, 3 exercises each body part, 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps ect. Does it have a place or is it the best use of time for any goal?

Brian?

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Coincidence I suppose.

Or yourself and my Physio are equally useless/mediocre/good/rehab genii.

Mickery

Great info on this thread. Thanks to all. Here's my submission.

1. Objectives.

Health.
Strength.
Gain muscle.
Lose fat.
Improve posture.


2. Stats.

Age: 35
Height: 172cm
Weight: 73.3kg
Posture: Desk jockey, forward head with some upper back rounding. (My opinion, not professional.)


3. The program.

Two full body workouts per week.

Workout 1
Target 1RM (kg) for current weights cycle
Overhead Press 55
Trap Bar Squat 150
Parallel Bar Pull Up 110
Chest Dip 106


Workout 2
Target 1RM (kg) for current weights cycle
Bench Press 90
Deadlift 150
Wide Pull Up 110
Chin Up 105


Added in arm work at the end of each workout as they still look like twigs:

Lying Triceps Extension 43
Biceps Curl 46.5


It was mentioned that deadlifts followed by pull ups \ chin ups is not optimal but with only two full body sessions per week I don't know where to put them.


4. Implementation.

Two sessions a week, one of each workout above.
All exercises follow a six week cycle with different percentages (of 1RM) to suit each exercise:

Week 1 70% 5x8
Week 2 75% 3x8
Week 3 80% 3x5
Week 4 85% 3x3
Week 5 90% 3x3
Week 6 95% 1x3 (picked this template up from a post on boards by Hanley)

1RM figure is increased at the end of each cycle without actually testing them.
Would I be better off with a seventh week 1RM test?

At any time, all exercises are at different stages of their cycle.

Additional exercise:

Convict conditioning (bodyweight exercises) on some off days to keep things ticking over.

Ongoing posture correction exercises:
Shoulder Dislocates
Scap Pushup
Band Pull Apart
Inverted Row
Chin Retractions
Farmer Walks (loaded carries)


5. Progress and additional info.

In the last seven months (although training this way longer).

Weight: from 68.7kg to 73.3kg
Belly fat (circumference): from 30.5" to 29.25"
Strength: Steady increases in all exercises. Cycling weights seems, to me, to be superior to fixed sets and reps and attempting to progessively overload the weight week by week. This way I kept getting stuck on a particular weight.

Average daily calorie intake increased over this time from 2100 to 3100.
Macros: Carbs 26%, Fat 51%, Protein 23%

Intermittent fasting daily from 8-9pm to 12-1pm. Going on two years now.

Will Heffernan

Brian? wrote: »

Or yourself and my Physio are equally useless/mediocre/good/rehab genii.

I don't know...I am just thinking you probably should be worried either way no matter what the parallel between myself and your physio.

I am surprised that a mod hasn't taken them down in that case as they could probably be considered medical advice.

Brian?

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I don't know...I am just thinking you probably should be worried either way no matter what the parallel between myself and your physio.

I don't worry, I trust my Physio. Does that mean I have to trust you now? Quite the moral dilemma.

I am surprised that a mod hasn't taken them down in that case as they could probably be considered medical advice.

A mystery.

Will Heffernan

Mickk wrote: »

Hey Will,

what do you think about the very basic program that it seems like 90% of people who wouldn't read forums/get trainers are on, a 3-4 day split push/pull/legs or back/biceps, chest/triceps, shoulders/traps and leg days, 3 exercises each body part, 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps ect. Does it have a place or is it the best use of time for any goal?

I like it and if I was looking purely to add mass it's pretty much exactly what I'd do.

Will Heffernan

Only have 20 mins so I will do this fast. Won't have time to explain it today but I will tell you what I'd do and maybe you guys can try to work out the thinking behind it.

harpstilidie wrote: »

Cardio: Bike- 15km or Treadmill- 5km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-40kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 40kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 20.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 15lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 20.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 20.

3A. Bicep Curl- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 30lbs, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 20.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 5km.

I'd add that knee care work in there for a month and see if your knees are feeling better....if they are brilliant...then once your aerobic base was better I'd look to start doing some interval work in your cardio.

If your knees aren't better seek medical assistance if you haven't already by then and find out how you are going to take care of your joints long term.

With your weights work and ab work above I'd superset the work as it's laid out above and get through your workout basically as quickly as you can without breaking form. So as to increase your metabolic work.

You asked about density somewhere as well...increasing the density of your workout is either a function of getting the same work done in less time = increased density or more work done in the same time = increased density.

I've gotta run but looking forward to messing with more peoples programs later.

harpstilidie

Thank you very much Will. Have been dosed with the cold over the weekend so haven't been to the gym but hopefully get to put this programme into action tomorrow or Thursday. Looking forward to it. Hopefully I can get it done in under 90 mins! Maybe do slightly less cardio than usual.

thegreatiam

Wasnt going to post this for a while as I think it is pretty good for me right now. But if it can be improved then Ill be happy.

• 1. The objective of the program.
  Increase strength, flexibility.
• 2. Your current stats...age, weight etc etc.
  34, 90kgs,
• 3. The program obviously.
  Work out A
  Squat, 3x8 (currently 65kgs)
  Bench,3x8 (currently 55kgs)
  lat pull down, 3x8 (currently 65kgs)
  dumbbell press 3x8-10 (currently 15kgs)
  rope pull downs 3x10-12 (currently 25kgs)
  rope face pulls 3x10-12 (currently 30kgs)
  (cable ab exercises, cuban rotations)
  Work out B
  Squat,3x8
  Incline dumbbell press/incline bench,3x8 (currently 20kgs)
  pendalay (was barbell row till last week)row 3x8 (currently 60kgs)
  military press 3x8 (currently 27kgs)
  Deadlift (was stiff leg till last week)1x5-8 (currently 65kgs)
  calf raises, 3x10-12 (currently 140kgs)
  (cable ab exercises, cuban rotations)
  
• 4. How you plan to implement it...how many sessions a week etc etc
  Currently alternating A-B 3 sessions a week. trying to add 2.5 kgs a session to each exercise.
  The ones listed as 8-10/10-12 are intended to increase reps if I i cannot increase weight.
  Weights are approximate as i dont have my notes, also they are still in a recovery phase, so right now im not pushing hard as I was when I stopped, hopefully ill be back 100% in 3 sessions.
  
  I also do muay thai and boxing and BJJ occasionally and, if I can, some yoga. But these are on hold while I sort out my schedule, back to it in a few weeks.

.

If there are any improvements to be made then Id listen.
But I would also like to be able to shorten the time, I find I have to rush through the last 2 exercises, the ab work and cable rotations sometimes skipping them.

Thanks

Burkatron

Guys, just a quick 1!
My girlfriend is training away with me! Doing a similar split to what I have up earlier in the thread! She's improved her deadlift (110kg) her squat (85kg) but her bech has plateaued & isn't improving eve no matter how many times she resets or correct technique she's stalled!

Would subbing in Strict OH presses & more tricep dip work for the next cycle be correct to help break this plateau?

Hanley

Burkatron wrote: »

Guys, just a quick 1!
My girlfriend is training away with me! Doing a similar split to what I have up earlier in the thread! She's improved her deadlift (110kg) her squat (85kg) but her bech has plateaued & isn't improving eve no matter how many times she resets or correct technique she's stalled!

Would subbing in Strict OH presses & more tricep dip work for the next cycle be correct to help break this plateau?

Tell her to stop being such a girl.

Seriously.

Girls benches move slower than bananas digesting.

gymfreak

Hanley wrote: »

Seriously.

Girls benches move slower than bananas digesting.

So, so, SO True!

If she's starting to get frustrated at it, sub in different pressing variations for a few weeks before revisiting it!

Will Heffernan

Trying to comment on these in order. If I've something or something remind me.

Sangre wrote: »

Thought I'd do some analysis of my own programme in light of recent threads:

Vertical Pull
1584
1620
1404
4608 Total

Vertical Push
936
702
1638 Total

Rato VPull:VPush = 2.8:1

Horizontal Pull
1950
936
60
180
3126 Total

Horizontal Push
1350
1404
2754 Total


Ratio Hpull:Hpush = 1.14:1

Total Pull:Push = 1.76:1

Hip Dominant
1837.5
750
2587 Total

Quad Dominant
3120
1650
4770 Total

Ratio Quad:Hip .5:1


Assuming I've done my calculation correctly, my pull:push is probably too high (in favour of pull) and more pushing is required. I do quite little vertical pushing at the moment so perhaps this could address it. Either that or reduce my vertical pulling.

I tend to look at it with regard to the total Pull to Push ratio...I mean...I always look at the ratios with regard to the planes but I am not using these as any sort of an exact measure...more to just get an idea of the total approximate volume if that makes sense.

So that being said and based on the numbers you've detailed above:

Total Push = (1638+2754) 4392
Total Pull = (4608+3126) 7734

That doesn't look too bad to me...not even twice the pulling to pushing that is. That would be around and about the figure I'd be looking for myself.

My hip:quat is completely off. A lot more focus is needrd on hip dominant movements. I knew that already but this shows how stark it is.

Agreed. Personally I think you get a lot more bang for your buck from hip dominant work. You should be at the very minimum be looking to 'equalise' this I think.

Will post a revised work-out for people to comment on.

Would be very interested to see this and to hear your thoughts on how it's going if and when you implement any changes?

Will Heffernan

gvn wrote: »

There are 3 separate work outs.

The first is:

Squats
Pull-Ups (mixed grips between sets)
Barbell OHP
Raises (lateral + front raises in a superset)
Dumbbell Shrugs

The second is:

Barbell Bench Press
Pendlay Row
Incline Dumbbell Press
Dumbbell Rows
Incline Dumbbell Flyes
Bent-over Dumbbell Flyes (or raises, whatever they're called)

The third is split into morning and evening:

Morning:
Squats
Calf Raises with Barbell on back

Evening:
Deadlifts
SLDLs

3-5 days per week, depending on how I recover. Sometimes I take a day or two rest between exercise days, sometimes I train on consecutive days. Generally it'd be 4 days per week.

The main compound lifts (squats, bench, BB rows, etc.) are done in a 5x5 scheme most of the time, and then followed by a lighter weight done in a 3x12 scheme. Sometimes I'll do 3x3, 3x8 or even 10x10 instead of 5x5, depending on mood.

I try to keep horizontal pull:push and vertical pull:push in favour of the pull movement; it generally works out at about 1.2:1 with respect to horizontal pull:push, and 2:1 with respect to vertical pull:push (thanks to far more volume with pull-ups than with OHP). Hip:quad ratio is about 1:1, which I need to improve, but that's difficult considering I squat 2/3 times per week and only deadlift 1/2 times per week.

Every few weeks I'll go through a 1-2 week run of DieselCrew's Shoulder Rehab Protocol, which is just a mixture of exercises designed to improve scapular stability/strength (scap push ups, pull ups, scap rows, band pull aparts, etc.) Though I have relatively good hip mobility, I'd like to find a similar programme for them.

If I feel up to it after a workout, I'll throw in some core work, such as weighted planks and so on. I don't do this often enough, though.

Any criticisms/tips/advice welcome!

Looks good to me. Any comments/suggestions that I'd make you've already made yourself.

Will Heffernan

Mickery wrote: »

1. Objectives.

Health.
Strength.
Gain muscle.
Lose fat.
Improve posture.


2. Stats.

Age: 35
Height: 172cm
Weight: 73.3kg
Posture: Desk jockey, forward head with some upper back rounding. (My opinion, not professional.)


3. The program.

Two full body workouts per week.

Workout 1
Target 1RM (kg) for current weights cycle
Overhead Press 55
Trap Bar Squat 150

Do you mean trapbar deadlift? Not sure what you mean by trapbar squat? Not sure if you mean that you are trapbar deadlifting with a more upright/quad dominant posture or you mean something else entirely?

Parallel Bar Pull Up 110
Chest Dip 106

Workout 2
Target 1RM (kg) for current weights cycle
Bench Press 90
Deadlift 150
Wide Pull Up 110
Chin Up 105


Added in arm work at the end of each workout as they still look like twigs:

Lying Triceps Extension 43
Biceps Curl 46.5


It was mentioned that deadlifts followed by pull ups \ chin ups is not optimal but with only two full body sessions per week I don't know where to put them.

If you feel comfortable deadlifting and doing pull ups and chin ups in the same session and back to back that is fine by me. I don't really have any 'rules' with regard training programs...I am just talking about the guidelines that I use. If you like it and it's working for you then power on.

4. Implementation.

Two sessions a week, one of each workout above.
All exercises follow a six week cycle with different percentages (of 1RM) to suit each exercise:

Week 1 70% 5x8
Week 2 75% 3x8
Week 3 80% 3x5
Week 4 85% 3x3
Week 5 90% 3x3
Week 6 95% 1x3 (picked this template up from a post on boards by Hanley)

Looks good. As I said above...if it is working for you...then stick with it till it isn't.

1RM figure is increased at the end of each cycle without actually testing them.
Would I be better off with a seventh week 1RM test?

Yes and no. Depends on your training environment. If you are training with others then I'd say why not...if you are on your own and you are continuing to make progress then I'd say why bother.

If you are training on your own I'd tend to suggest using some sort of body weight or fixed weight testing to monitor your progress and to see what kinds of improvement you are making rather than a single all out 1RM max effort test.

At any time, all exercises are at different stages of their cycle.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this?

Additional exercise:

Convict conditioning (bodyweight exercises) on some off days to keep things ticking over.

Ongoing posture correction exercises:
Shoulder Dislocates
Scap Pushup
Band Pull Apart
Inverted Row
Chin Retractions
Farmer Walks (loaded carries)


5. Progress and additional info.

In the last seven months (although training this way longer).

Weight: from 68.7kg to 73.3kg
Belly fat (circumference): from 30.5" to 29.25"
Strength: Steady increases in all exercises. Cycling weights seems, to me, to be superior to fixed sets and reps and attempting to progessively overload the weight week by week. This way I kept getting stuck on a particular weight.

Average daily calorie intake increased over this time from 2100 to 3100.
Macros: Carbs 26%, Fat 51%, Protein 23%

Intermittent fasting daily from 8-9pm to 12-1pm. Going on two years now.

Well from the sounds of it...you are making progress...that's better than most so I'd say keep it up.

Mickery

Thanks for the response Will.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Do you mean trapbar deadlift? Not sure what you mean by trapbar squat? Not sure if you mean that you are trapbar deadlifting with a more upright/quad dominant posture or you mean something else entirely?

I'm trying to perform a squat like movement using the trap bar. The bar doesn't touch the ground between reps unlike a deadlift. My back is more upright during the movement. It feels very stable. I stopped normal squatting as the bar seemed to press right on my spine no matter what way I set up. I figured it might be a posture issue (forward head, slightly rounded upper back) so I'm trying to sort that out.

See the link below (although I haven't tried it on a platform yet so I'm not getting as deep as shown here).

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/TBSquat.html

Will Heffernan wrote: »

If you are training on your own I'd tend to suggest using some sort of body weight or fixed weight testing to monitor your progress and to see what kinds of improvement you are making rather than a single all out 1RM max effort test.

Sounds good to me. The convict conditioning bodyweight exercises are set up as a 10 step progression. The 1RM is just a notional figure which I should pass by in a cycle or two anyway.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

Quote:At any time, all exercises are at different stages of their cycle.


Not exactly sure what you mean by this?

I mean the exercises are not synched e.g. during a particular workout I could be on "week 1" deadlift, "week 4" bench press etc. This is fairly random at the moment so it would be difficult to measure exact push \ pull ratios like Sangre did a few posts ago.

Sangre

Will, many thanks for taking the time to respond to me and in this thread generally.

Will Heffernan wrote: »

I tend to look at it with regard to the total Pull to Push ratio...I mean...I always look at the ratios with regard to the planes but I am not using these as any sort of an exact measure...more to just get an idea of the total approximate volume if that makes sense.

So that being said and based on the numbers you've detailed above:

Total Push = (1638+2754) 4392
Total Pull = (4608+3126) 7734

That doesn't look too bad to me...not even twice the pulling to pushing that is. That would be around and about the figure I'd be looking for myself.

Thats good to hear. I won't look to change anything dramatically going forward.

Agreed. Personally I think you get a lot more bang for your buck from hip dominant work. You should be at the very minimum be looking to 'equalise' this I think.


Would be very interested to see this and to hear your thoughts on how it's going if and when you implement any changes?

I have been slowly tweaking my routine as I go along since my post on the ratios and trying to figure out what might work for me. Moving focus away from quad dominant movements will suit me as I'll probably me doing more and more weekend cycling during summer. Hip Dominant focused work-out will be used to balance that out. However, quad movements will remain with a view to retain my mobility in that department but with a less focus. Might throw up a routine at weekend.

How would you propose quantifying any changes other than an increase in those movements?

Will Heffernan

Mickery wrote: »

Thanks for the response Will.

No problemo.

I'm trying to perform a squat like movement using the trap bar. The bar doesn't touch the ground between reps unlike a deadlift. My back is more upright during the movement. It feels very stable. I stopped normal squatting as the bar seemed to press right on my spine no matter what way I set up. I figured it might be a posture issue (forward head, slightly rounded upper back) so I'm trying to sort that out.

See the link below (although I haven't tried it on a platform yet so I'm not getting as deep as shown here).

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/TBSquat.html

Gotcha.

Sounds good to me. The convict conditioning bodyweight exercises are set up as a 10 step progression. The 1RM is just a notional figure which I should pass by in a cycle or two anyway.

Gotcha.

I mean the exercises are not synched e.g. during a particular workout I could be on "week 1" deadlift, "week 4" bench press etc. This is fairly random at the moment so it would be difficult to measure exact push \ pull ratios like Sangre did a few posts ago.

How's that working out for you? Is that something you've done purposefully? Has it evolved like that?

Will Heffernan

Sangre wrote: »

Will, many thanks for taking the time to respond to me and in this thread generally.

I'll try to respond to everyone that posts here.

I have been slowly tweaking my routine as I go along since my post on the ratios and trying to figure out what might work for me. Moving focus away from quad dominant movements will suit me as I'll probably me doing more and more weekend cycling during summer. Hip Dominant focused work-out will be used to balance that out. However, quad movements will remain with a view to retain my mobility in that department but with a less focus. Might throw up a routine at weekend.

It'll be good to see what you come up with.

How would you propose quantifying any changes other than an increase in those movements?

I am not sure what you mean by this?

Naos

1) Objective:

Stay injury free. Increase conditioning. Increase strength. Decrease Bodyfat.

2) Stats:

27, 181cm (5' 9") & 84.5kg.

3) Starting Strength with MMA

Have done SS before and reading on the net, lots of different opinions as to whether it's good or not. I haven't done weights properly in a while, so just want to increase overall strength before going doing a more specific program / if it works well for MMA keep at it.

Starting off light as I've decided to take a more structured approach this time and haven't lifted heavy in a while.

Typical ABA(W1), BAB(W2) format. Weights will be as follows:

Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4 Week 5 Week 6
W/O 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Sq 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 92.5 95 97.5 100 102.5 105 107.5 110 112.5
BP 70 - 75 - 80 - 85 - 90 - 92.5 - 95 - 97.5 - 100 -
DL 90 - 97.5 - 105 - 112.5 - 120 - 122.5 - 125 - 127.5 - 130 -
Press - 45 - 47.5 - 50 - 52.5 - 55 - 57.5 - 60 - 62.5 - 65
Clean - 40 - 42.5 - 45 - 47.5 - 50 - 52.5 - 55 - 57.5 - 60
Dips 10,6,10 - 10,9,8 - 10,9,9 - 10,10,10 - 11,10,10 - 11,11,10 - 11,11,11 - 12,11,11 - 12,12,12 -
Chins - 8,8,8 - 9,8,8 - 9,9,8 - 10,9,9 - 10,10,10 - 11,10,10 - 11,11,11 - 12,11,11 - 12,12,12

W/O = Workout. Every exercise is 3 sets of 5 reps bar DL which is 1 set of 5 reps.

4) Frequency:

3 strength sessions per week (Tues, Thurs, Sat AM)

3/4 MMA sessions per week: Tues (MMA), Wed (MMA+Bjj), Thurs (MMA+Wrestling), Sat (MMA). (Approx 2-2.5 hours each)

The martial art sessions are pretty tough going on the body as I'm sure you know Will, so went for the lightest minimum loading as recommended by Rippetoe.

floggg

Ok, so here goes.

I'm 28, 13.5 stone, 5' 10".

Short term goals are to drop a good bit off body fat. If i could get stronger while doing so, great.

I'm currently a bit restricted in what I can do by some knee trouble, for which I am seeing a physio for. I've been cleared to do most gym work save for squat and lunge type exercises. Deadlifts and leg press are ok though.

I can't do running, though can play 5 a side once to twice a week (depending on recovery).

I have been half assing things on and off for the last 2 years, but I tend to always enjoy doing programs based around squats, deadlifts and presses as the "main course" each day to borrow from one of Will's comments above. I tend to stick to the routine a lot more when I am following that sort of plan.

I'm hoping to be able to start back running in the next 4 - 6 weeks, but in the meantime have 5 a side and cycling (4 mile to and from work three times a week) as cardio. I tend to dislike doing stuff like threadmill or rowing machine and generally don't have time to do them in the gym anyway (go before work most times).

anyway, here is what I was thinking:

Tuesday:

Bench - 3 x 10
Press - 3 x 10
Decline DB Press - 3 x 10
BB Rows 3 x 10
[Biceps]

Thurs:

Deadlift
SLDL
Hamstring Curls
[Triceps]
Core Work

Sat:

Leg Press
Chins
Calf Raise
Shrugs
[Core Work]

I want to flesh it out a bit more, and maybe add some exercises on Thurs and Sat. However, I am not sure of the groupings that work best (e.g. had thought to include chins/pull ups with deadlifts).

I realise I am probably in the category of people doing the wrong thing/unnecessary stuff. That said, I enjoy that sort of program, and the more I enjoy, the more likely I am to do it and hence reach my goals. I tend to eat much healthier too if i can get into a good training routine, so there's that too.

For transparency, I'll add this is influenced by Hanleys post here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68120286&postcount=4 - but is also pretty similar to something I had been doing myself previously.

conzy

Age 23, Currently 72kg at about 13% body fat, 18 months ago I was 98kg and weak as a mouse, For about a year I ate "sensibly" and arsed around in the gym on various machines. Since January I have been lifting seriously and tracking every session aswell as adhering to strict macros. I have gained about 8-10lbs of muscle I think, which puts my total fat loss at about 67lbs

The short term goal is to get leaner and maintain strength, the long term goal is to get stronger while staying lean! I think my push is weak and would like to improve that, I can do 4 sets of 25 pushups, but can only bench 55kg and it never seems to progress where as I feel I have made good deadlift / squat progress

I hope to hit the 1.5x BW squat, 2x BW deadlift and 1x BW bench in the next few months.

The workout is split between A and B, I train Monday,Wednesday,Friday so its ABA, BAB, ABA etc...

A

3x5 Squat 90kg
3x5 Bench 55kg
3x5 Bent over row 57.5kg
3x8 Barbell shrugs 80kg
3x8 Chins bodyweight
3x8 Dips bodyweight
3x8 Plate Raise 25kg
2x10 hyperextension 25kg
3x12 kneeling cable crunch
3x12 Captains chair or leg raises on a bench

B

3x5 Squat 90kg
1x5 Deadlift 127.5kg
3x5 Bent over row current - 10%
3x5 Military Press 37.5kg
3x8 Barbell Curls 30kg
3x8 Dips bodyweight
3x8 lat raises 8kg
3x8 front raises 8kg
3x12 kneeling cable crunch
3x12 Captains chair or leg raises on a bench

The volume on the heavy compound lifts was 5x5 for 3 months or so but I dropped it to 3x5 as I am eating 500 or so cals below maintenance. I obviously noticed a decrease in the rate of progression, but I am still increasing strength and losing fat.

I can just about do 3x8 dips / chins, I have been failing on rep 6/7 on the last set and usually do a set of negatives then.

I also try and run 5k 2-3 days a week on non lifting days, but I worry that it hampers recovery.

Thanks for the help!

Will Heffernan

If you are looking to lose weight in your program just burn more calories than you consume and if you are looking to gain mass then consume more calories than your burn....apparently everything else including your personal specifications and circumstances is 'pointless' and 'irrelevant'.

Burn more calories than you consume and or consume more calories than you burn is all you need to know and all that matters.

Good luck with your programs.

thegreatiam

what if i am not trying to lose or gain weight?

Will Heffernan

thegreatiam wrote: »

what if i am not trying to lose or gain weight?

I will add just 'train harder'.

That's it. Train harder, consume more calories or burn more calories...that's it all taken care of.

thegreatiam

so if I want to stay the same weight i need to train harder?

harpstilidie

Cardio: Bike- 15km or Treadmill- 5km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-40kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 40kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 20.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 15lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 20.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 20.

3A. Bicep Curl- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 30lbs, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 20.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 5km.


Tried this and it's taking me ages to get through. You said I should try and shorten my time in the gym. I done 10km on the bike to start with instead of 15k and superset the exercises and didn't even do the last cardio and it was about 90 mins. Is that too long? Is there any exercises there I could cut out or cut down on? I probably will get quicker though.

Nate--IRL--

OK I’m gonna participate here as I feel I have lost my way in the last year or so, and could do with some advice on how change things up.

Started a new job last October after a while of being idle (+ 1 year), and am now cycling to work. I’ve been a regular gym goer for a few years and my new Gym is literally next door to my job (Northwood) and I couldn’t be happier with it. Since I’ve started working there I’ve lost about 7-8 Kilos, and am now ~71kg (partly through diet, partly due to being more active again).

After I noticed the weight loss taking shape I got it in to my head that I wanted to see a sixpack for the first time in my life. Seems easy enough to get close to it, but not the final product I didn’t/don’t have the discipline for this, that’s fine, I can accept that, and I’m not trying to pursue it anymore.

The initial zeal to achieve this, among the other changes in my life has taken a toll on what I can lift these days. It isn’t a nice feeling going backwards, I had some pride invested on how much I could lift (that might sound silly), and seeing this reduce has reduced my motivation considerably. I’ve lost 20kgs off my peak Squat and Deadlift.

I’m looking for… I don’t know what I’m looking for, I just want it to be interesting again. Perhaps the biggest mistake I’m guilty of is not changing things. What I have been doing has been covering the basics, but I’m going backwards and I’m bored with it, I need something new, maybe even completely different, I’m open to suggestions.

Current week would look something like this (nearly all 3x8 + 10 min cardio warmup and 20mins after)

Mon
Shrugs
Shoulder press
Upright row
Lateral raises
Anterior raises

Tue
Pullups
Deadlift
Bent over Row
One Arm Row
Machine row or Pulldown

Wed
Cardio 1 hr

Thu
Bench
Pullover row
Incline bench
Dips
Triceps extensions

Fri
Squat
Stiff leg deadlift
Leg press
Calf raise

All basic stuff, but looking for new ideas to keep it interesting.

Nate

RidleyRider

So planning on cutting soon and this was my initial plan.

Do HIIT until I burn 350kcals on the treadmill on each leg day (twice a week). To tag along to that I'll probably cut on 2000-2200kcals. Split that into 40p/30c/30f.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Naos

So what would be considered optimal with MMA training?

And also why would a structured program be difficult to combine with MMA?