Program Analysis - Programs rated, debated and berated.

Hanley

Naos wrote: »

So what would be considered optimal with MMA training?

And also why would a structured program be difficult to combine with MMA?

Because if you're sparring and get a hard kick to the quad, squatting is out. Or if someone keylocks you and tweaks it a bit you won't be pressing the following day. You can't periodise unpredictable.

Naos

Hanley wrote: »

Because if you're sparring and get a hard kick to the quad, squatting is out. Or if someone keylocks you and tweaks it a bit you won't be pressing the following day. You can't periodise unpredictable.

Okay I understand that due to picking up those type of knocks, but surely there need to be some type of structure followed to help with progression?

ScissorPaperRock

Does anyone have any recommendations for a 4-day programme? I've been doing BLAB but would like to change to a 4-day programme. I'm predominantly focused on building strength, but really want to start incorporating more conditioning-oriented work as well.

Mellor

Hanley wrote: »

Because if you're sparring and get a hard kick to the quad, squatting is out. Or if someone keylocks you and tweaks it a bit you won't be pressing the following day. You can't periodise unpredictable.

Ugh to this.
A "knock" a picked up 2 weeks ago hasn't went away. I think legs could be out for 2 months pending an x-ray.

RidleyRider

I was boxing last year and ended up injured with a niggly shoulder that haunts me still. What's worse is I missed out on my first fight and quit altogether.

For the person doing MMA, I'd say follow a programme as best you can and compromise when/if you get injured.

thegreatiam

twisted my neck in BJJ in feb, had me off the weights until 2 weeks ago. basically reset me back to day one of my programme and I wont catch up for another 2/3 weeks
hard to work a programme around unpredictable injuries.

Vet Thrower

My goal is balanced strength development. In line with the advice in this thread, I am doing two days in the gym. One day is a hip dominant / upper body push day, and the other is a quad dominant / upper body pull day. Exercise selection changes each month.

I want to maintain a 2 : 1 ratio of hip / pull volume to quad / push volume, as I have imbalances I want to correct (weaker UB pull, LB hip dominant).

My question is how to maintain these ratios when exercise selection changes.

So, this month I am doing trap bar dead lifts and back squats (and accessory work), and am able to maintain a hip : quad ratio of 2 : 1.

Say next month, I do box squats as my main hip dominant exercise and double KB front squats as my main quad dominant exercise. I'll only be able to do 48kg in the front squats as this is as heavy as I can go in my gym.

This will throw my hip : quad ratio out of whack and it will be more like 3 : 1.

Should I just accept this and not worry about it as it is only for a month?

Should I do lighter box squats to compensate / or choose a hip dominant exercise that forces me to use lighter weights (e.g. RDL?)

Should I do more quad dominant accessory work to compensate?

Sangre

Open to correction here but I would have thought both trap bar dead lift and box squats were quad dominant.

Mellor

Reduced load + more reps = same volume

Just a thought.

Mickery

Will Heffernan wrote: »

How's that working out for you? Is that something you've done purposefully? Has it evolved like that?

It has just evolved that way. I did try to select the exercises to give some balance. I try to incorporate any knowledge I pick up here. I definitely don't want to be doing 90%+ of 1RM on all exercises at the same time. Once I avoid this I seem to be ok.

In the past I stuck rigidly to 3x6, increasing the weight every week. Deadlifting this way left me in a twitchy, nervy mess post workout. My bench would just get stuck.

I need to think about swapping in alternate exercises for a cycle or two in the future. I've been doing the same movements for almost two years now.

colman1212

So quick question.

I've started doing some mobillity stuff recently. I don't know much about this aside from the fact that I need to do it as I do a lot of pressing and want my shoulders to be healthy.
On upper body days, before my training session, I've been doing:
Scap push ups
Band pullaparts
Shoulder Dislocates
I train upper body 3 days a week so I do them on these days.
Is this too much or is it a good thing?
Cheeeeers!

cmyk

colman1212 wrote: »

I've started doing some mobillity stuff recently. I don't know much about this aside from the fact that I need to do it as I do a lot of pressing and want my shoulders to be healthy.

Yep, good plan, most only start doing them when they start getting issues.

colman1212 wrote: »

On upper body days, before my training session, I've been doing:
Scap push ups
Band pullaparts
Shoulder Dislocates

You could stick in some thoracic mobility/postural work in there too first, things like quadruped extensions, cat/camels, extensions on foam roller, seated thoracic rotations. Youtube is your friend for all of those.

colman1212 wrote: »

I train upper body 3 days a week so I do them on these days.
Is this too much or is it a good thing?
Cheeeeers!

Depends on how you've structured it, apologies if you've already posted your routine.

colman1212

cmyk wrote: »

Depends on how you've structured it, apologies if you've already posted your routine.

I log everything I do in the fitness logs here but at the mo its:
Monday: Back
Tues: Chest/Bis
Wed: Quads
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Chest or rest day
Sat: Hamstrings/Lowerback

Cheers mate. I'll google some of that stuff.

cmyk

colman1212 wrote: »

I log everything I do in the fitness logs here but at the mo its:
Monday: Back
Tues: Chest/Bis
Wed: Quads
Thurs: Shoulders
Fri: Chest or rest day
Sat: Hamstrings/Lowerback

Had a v.quick skim just over the last couple of pages, you seem to mix up the exercises a bit?

In short I think you've got your horizontal push/pull/protraction/retraction pretty roughly balanced between chest and back days, maybe skewed a little too much towards push even. Adding in your shoulder day however pushes a big bias on pushing and internal rotation.

Shoulders are taking a lot of work, how long have you been doing that program?

Maybe you're aware of it as you seem to have thrown in some sort of compensatory work here and there?

colman1212

cmyk wrote: »

Had a v.quick skim just over the last couple of pages, you seem to mix up the exercises a bit?

In short I think you've got your horizontal push/pull/protraction/retraction pretty roughly balanced between chest and back days, maybe skewed a little too much towards push even. Adding in your shoulder day however pushes a big bias on pushing and internal rotation.

Shoulders are taking a lot of work, how long have you been doing that program?

Maybe you're aware of it as you seem to have thrown in some sort of compensatory work here and there?

I've been doing this program about 4 weeks. Just started a strength training phase. Was cutting bodyfat prior to this program. My PT generally sets out my diet and training. I change it up about every 8 weeks. For chest day (push) I have a back day (pull). Then I also have a chest and back day (push/pull). But yes I have a shoulder/tri's day which is all push. I currently do chest twice a week as its an area thats lagging behind the rest so needs a little more work.

irish son

I just got back into going regularly the last month after doing very little for over a year. I'm just wondering what people think of my programme.

I go 3 days a week with at least a day off in between doing full body workouts.

Day 1: Squats 4 sets 6-10 reps
Db bench press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Overhand grip bent over rows 4 sets 6-10 reps
BB shoulder press 4 sets 6-10 reps
some kind of bicep and tricep exercise supersets 2 sets of each 10-12
Calf raises 2 sets 12-15 reps

Day 2: Deadlift 4 sets 6-10 reps
Incline db bench press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Lat pulldowns 4 sets 6-10 reps
Biceps and triceps supersets 2 sets 10-12 reps
Core 2/3 exercises 2/3 sets

Day 3: Squat 4 sets 6-10 sets
Bb bench press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Underhand grip bent over rows 4 sets 6-10 reps
Db shoulder press 4 sets 6-10 reps
Biceps and triceps supersets 2 sets 10-12 reps
Shrugs 2 sets 12-15 reps

I do some form of cardio about 2/3 times a week, more or less whenever I feel like it. I'm cutting at the moment with this routine as the bodyfat was a bit high and I'm not far off where I want to be now in terms of bodyfat, hopefully just another 2/3 weeks. Should I stick with this same routine and increase calories or should I also switch to a split routine when bulking?

Thoughts?

cmyk

colman1212 wrote: »

I've been doing this program about 4 weeks. Just started a strength training phase. Was cutting bodyfat prior to this program. My PT generally sets out my diet and training. I change it up about every 8 weeks. For chest day (push) I have a back day (pull). Then I also have a chest and back day (push/pull). But yes I have a shoulder/tri's day which is all push. I currently do chest twice a week as its an area thats lagging behind the rest so needs a little more work.

Sorry Colman, slow to get looking at this again...actually requires a little thinking and looking back and forward.

How are your shoulders currently coping with that? If it was me I'd make one simple change for a start to shoulder day, swap out the upright rows for more of an external rotation exercise and balance them out, something like the following...

A. DB Shoulder Press
B. Cuban Press/Prone Trap Raise
C. Front Raises
D. Rear Delt Flyes

thegreatiam

thegreatiam wrote: »

Bump from earlier:

• 1. The objective of the program.
  Increase strength, flexibility.
• 2. Your current stats...age, weight etc etc.
  34, 90kgs, height 182cm
• 3. The program obviously.
  Work out A
  Squat, 3x8 (currently 65kgs)
  Bench,3x8 (currently 55kgs)
  lat pull down, 3x8 (currently 65kgs)
  dumbbell press 3x8-10 (currently 15kgs)
  rope pull downs 3x10-12 (currently 25kgs)
  rope face pulls 3x10-12 (currently 30kgs)
  (cable ab exercises, cuban rotations)
  Work out B
  Squat,3x8
  Incline dumbbell press/incline bench,3x8 (currently 20kgs)
  pendalay (was barbell row till last week)row 3x8 (currently 60kgs)
  military press 3x8 (currently 27kgs)
  Deadlift (was stiff leg till last week)1x5-8 (currently 65kgs)
  calf raises, 3x10-12 (currently 140kgs)
  (cable ab exercises, cuban rotations)
  
• 4. How you plan to implement it...how many sessions a week etc etc
  Currently alternating A-B 3 sessions a week. trying to add 2.5 kgs a session to each exercise.
  The ones listed as 8-10/10-12 are intended to increase reps if I i cannot increase weight.
  Weights are approximate as i dont have my notes, also they are still in a recovery phase, so right now im not pushing hard as I was when I stopped, hopefully ill be back 100% in 3 sessions.
  
  I also do muay thai and boxing and BJJ occasionally and, if I can, some yoga. But these are on hold while I sort out my schedule, back to it in a few weeks.

.

If there are any improvements to be made then Id listen.
But I would also like to be able to shorten the time, I find I have to rush through the last 2 exercises, the ab work and cable rotations sometimes skipping them.

Thanks

Posted it earlier,
Ill be back up to my highest weights since twisting my neck, on my next session.

Vet Thrower

Vet Thrower wrote: »

My goal is balanced strength development. In line with the advice in this thread, I am doing two days in the gym. One day is a hip dominant / upper body push day, and the other is a quad dominant / upper body pull day. Exercise selection changes each month.

I want to maintain a 2 : 1 ratio of hip / pull volume to quad / push volume, as I have imbalances I want to correct (weaker UB pull, LB hip dominant).

My question is how to maintain these ratios when exercise selection changes.

So, this month I am doing trap bar dead lifts and back squats (and accessory work), and am able to maintain a hip : quad ratio of 2 : 1.

Say next month, I do box squats as my main hip dominant exercise and double KB front squats as my main quad dominant exercise. I'll only be able to do 48kg in the front squats as this is as heavy as I can go in my gym.

This will throw my hip : quad ratio out of whack and it will be more like 3 : 1.

Should I just accept this and not worry about it as it is only for a month?

Should I do lighter box squats to compensate / or choose a hip dominant exercise that forces me to use lighter weights (e.g. RDL?)

Should I do more quad dominant accessory work to compensate?

I've worked out the weights I need to do in all exercises to keep these ratio where I need them, but this involves doing dumbbell front squats with reasonably heavy DBs - working up to 50k per hand.

Front squatting this much shouldn't be a problem, but I'm trying to figure out how to get the DBs into the rack position. I doubt I could clean them, and there aren't any handy ledges that I can use.

Anyone any ideas on this?

Vet Thrower

Sangre wrote: »

Open to correction here but I would have thought both trap bar dead lift and box squats were quad dominant.

I think...

It depends on how you do the trap bar DLs. They can be quad dominant, hip dominant, or somewhere in between.

As far as I understand them, box squats are all about using your hips and glutes though. At least this is how I was shown them - feet pointing forward, knees wide, sit back and kind of settle on your arse, then use the hips and glutes to get up.

Take this with a pinch of salt though. I wouldn't claim to be an authority on any of this.

CM24

http://renegadeinnercircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BadIntentionsBook.pdf Jason Feruggia has made one of his programs free. I like the look of it, particularly the inclusion of lots of bodyweight exercises. However, I'm skeptical of starting it as the three main exercises throughout the program are trap bar dead, military press and bench press. That's fine by me but he has the military and bench press for the same set/rep scheme and in the same workout. Surely this isn't smart. If I set a PR in the military press I'd assume I'd be knackered for my benching?

Mickery

CM24 wrote: »

http://renegadeinnercircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BadIntentionsBook.pdf Jason Feruggia has made one of his programs free. I like the look of it, particularly the inclusion of lots of bodyweight exercises. However, I'm skeptical of starting it as the three main exercises throughout the program are trap bar dead, military press and bench press. That's fine by me but he has the military and bench press for the same set/rep scheme and in the same workout. Surely this isn't smart. If I set a PR in the military press I'd assume I'd be knackered for my benching?

That was a good read, thanks.

amazingemmet

CM24 wrote: »

http://renegadeinnercircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/BadIntentionsBook.pdf Jason Feruggia has made one of his programs free. I like the look of it, particularly the inclusion of lots of bodyweight exercises. However, I'm skeptical of starting it as the three main exercises throughout the program are trap bar dead, military press and bench press. That's fine by me but he has the military and bench press for the same set/rep scheme and in the same workout. Surely this isn't smart. If I set a PR in the military press I'd assume I'd be knackered for my benching?

For years now I've either pushed pressed or military pressed before benching and I've had consistent progress on both. Took about 3 weeks of work outs to get used to iirc.

Zombienosh

So I'm struggling to come up with a full body routine at the moment. I've been looking at basing it around super sets but can't decide on leg work.
Anyone got any good examples of full body routines?
Here's what I'm thinking, 4 groups of super sets.

Squats
Pull ups

*Second Leg Exercise -->
Shoulder Press

Chest Press
Rows

Dips
Biceps

+ Various Core work

I'm not sure about the second leg exercise, I've been thinking about trap bar deadlifts, lunges, leg curls... I don't know anyone have any ideas?
As for sets and reps I was thinking 5x5 with Pyramids?

amazingemmet

Zombienosh wrote: »

So I'm struggling to come up with a full body routine at the moment. I've been looking at basing it around super sets but can't decide on leg work.
Anyone got any good examples of full body routines?
Here's what I'm thinking, 4 groups of super sets.

Squats
Pull ups

*Second Leg Exercise --> Leg curls or reverse lunges
Shoulder Press

Chest Press
Rows

Dips
Biceps

+ Various Core work

I'm not sure about the second leg exercise, I've been thinking about trap bar deadlifts, lunges, leg curls... I don't know anyone have any ideas?
As for sets and reps I was thinking 5x5 with Pyramids?

What are your goals?

Zombienosh

General hypertrophy/strength.

amazingemmet

How many days a week.

Also general hypertrophy/ strength isn't a goal its a general statement, give me some tighter goals and I can help more, Ie I want to raise my squat from 120kg to 140kg or I want to take my bodyweight from 78kg-83kg.

Zombienosh

I'm doing that 3 days a week, other days cardio and bodyweight stuff.
Mostly I'm trying to improve pull ups, But general strength/fitness athleticism is the best I can give you for a goal. I don't have anything specific I'm just having fun.

amazingemmet

The three day a week template of this http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html would suit you better then trying to bash out a weights program for yourself.

harpstilidie

Cardio: Bike- 15km or Treadmill- 5km.

1A. Lateral Pulldown-40kg, 4 sets of 15.
1B. Machine- 40kg, 4 sets of 15.

Vertical leg crunch- 4 sets of 20.
Side Bridge - 4 sets of 30 secs per side.

2A. Dumbbell Bent Over Row- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 15.
2B. Alternate Arm Dumbbell Press - 15lbs, 4 sets of 15.

Bicycle Crunches- 4 sets of 20.
Torso rotation with 8kg medicine ball- 4 sets of 20.

3A. Bicep Curl- 30lbs (13.6kg), 4 sets of 10.
3B. Tricep Cable Press Down - 30lbs, 4 sets of 10.

Ab exercise (don't know name)- 4 sets of 20.
Hip Thrusters - 4 sets of 20.

Exercise Bike- 5km.

Ok, so I've been doing this workout (kindly adapted by Will) now for about 6 weeks and it's going really well. Since joining the gym in early March I've lost about 5 or 6kg in weight (hopefully fat loss) and gained some muscle especially my arms and my stomach is slightly flatter but no 6-pack yet. Should I start to vary my workout a bit with other exercises or just increase sets/reps or weight?

My diet is OK in my opinion. It could be better I know but I'm happy enough with it. I don't eat too much rubbish and have quite good self-control when it comes to junk food/takeaways etc. but I'm still enjoying my food and allow myself 1 takeaway a week. Snacks I maybe have some fruit or nuts, sometimes a biscuit. Thanks, Dan.