What are the pros and cons of multiracial multicultural society?

Nodin

woodoo wrote: »

Too many people (..........................)

Are you seriously telling me gang rapes are not carried out disproportionately by black and muslim men?

Wheres the evidence? You must have seen it, so please present it.

They just not want to admit that rape and particularly gang rape is a problem
among non EU immigrant

We need to go to the USA to get stats, Rape/sexual assault

gang rape in Europe "disproportionately" by black and muslim men. Wheres your stats?

BTW Its not my problem if we are too scared to compile the stats here in europe.

So you've nothing to back your statement, and it has its roots in your own bigotry. What a shock.

crockholm

Nodin wrote: »

Wheres the evidence? You must have seen it, so please present it.





gang rape in Europe "disproportionately" by black and muslim men. Wheres your stats?



So you've nothing to back your statement, and it has its roots in your own bigotry. What a shock.

I can't speak for other parts of Europe,but in Sweden, they do not name the suspects,or even if they have been convicted, not to mind releasing information about their ethnicity.The Swedish "Crimecall"- features the follow up of the gang rapes,and the victim will often appear on it.Sometimes even refusing the anonymity,and the constant in these gang rapes is that the men"spoke with middle eastern/arabic accents" thats as far as the producers will allow. Try to keep the victims in mind rather than point scoring with some random person on d'interweb, this is a problem that disproportionate to certain cultures,without accecping this,what hope have we to defeat it?

BluntGuy

In response to the OP: my personal experience. Any sh*t I got after I moved to Ireland was for having an English accent rather than my skin colour (I'm a complete mongrel when it comes nationality), but it wasn't really that much. Worst was getting abused at a bus stop, but it was mostly just minor things. I don't bother getting offended by silly crap like that.

In general I like multiculturalism, and I don't believe the existence of distinct cultures necessitates borders. A sense of identity that requires the "outsiders" to be kept out by fences, borders, whatever, is not a particularly strong one, and not one worth having imo.

I find the idea of restricting freedom of movement to pander to the insecurities of racists, irrational fears of xenophobes (or as one person hilariously described themselves to me, xenorealist) and people with a sense of entitlement (our jobs - says who? our country - says who?) very distasteful.

I'm interested to see where the stats on the Muslim gang rape stuff are.

Norwesterner

BluntGuy wrote: »

In response to the OP: my personal experience. Any sh*t I got after I moved to Ireland was for having an English accent rather than my skin colour (I'm a complete mongrel when it comes nationality), but it wasn't really that much. Worst was getting abused at a bus stop, but it was mostly just minor things. I don't bother getting offended by silly crap like that.

In general I like multiculturalism, and I don't believe the existence of distinct cultures necessitates borders. A sense of identity that requires the "outsiders" to be kept out by fences, borders, whatever, is not a particularly strong one, and not one worth having imo.

I find the idea of restricting freedom of movement to pander to the insecurities of racists, irrational fears of xenophobes (or as one person hilariously described themselves to me, xenorealist) and people with a sense of entitlement (our jobs - says who? our country - says who?) very distasteful.

I'm interested to see where the stats on the Muslim gang rape stuff are.

I support the restriction of immigration.
I'm neither racist nor xenophobic.
I think it's common sense and most countries have immigration control, ie criminals, wasters, opportunists and trouble-makers are kept out.
I'm an immigrant myself abroad.
I work. Pay taxes. Behave myself. Learnt the language etc.
Never received a cent in welfare aid or State help with my rent (mainly because it's an alien concept here. Jaws drop when I tell them what immigrants receive in Ireland).
I earn less abroad for a 50 hour week than an unemployed foreigner receives in my own country
I object to the demonisation of people who want normal immigration control in Ireland as "racist", "rightwing" or "xenophobic".
Entire Triad networks and Criminal gangs have been able to move shop to Ireland due to the Irish fear of saying "NO" to the open door policy.
Let good decent immigrants in, and keep the scum out.
Whats the problem with that???
Oh, and my partner is a coloured lass, so don't dare use the race card against me.

Legs.Eleven

woodoo wrote: »

Legs i am not going to be responding when you can't even get what i said right.

woodoo wrote: »

Off to bed to avoid answering my question. Exactly as i suspected. Ask questions but give no answers thats very easy.

Still waiting for those stats, Woodoo!! Any evidence at all? Any? No? Didn't think so.

Legs.Eleven

crockholm wrote: »

I can't speak for other parts of Europe,but in Sweden, they do not name the suspects,or even if they have been convicted, not to mind releasing information about their ethnicity.The Swedish "Crimecall"- features the follow up of the gang rapes,and the victim will often appear on it.Sometimes even refusing the anonymity,and the constant in these gang rapes is that the men"spoke with middle eastern/arabic accents" thats as far as the producers will allow. Try to keep the victims in mind rather than point scoring with some random person on d'interweb, this is a problem that disproportionate to certain cultures,without accecping this,what hope have we to defeat it?

Because no proof that that is the case has been provided.



Why are we ignoring other rapes of the non-gang variety?

Legs.Eleven

0066ad wrote: »

Like wise can you provide links it's mostly whites and Europeans gangs
that claim most gang rapes and also next time you visit retiro park who
is the first to offer you drugs blacks, moroccans, south americans or
caucasian.

I've been here four years. I've been offered Cocaine (which I don't take) countless time by white Spaniards in the jacks of clubs and bars and through friends, at parties as well as weed. Madrid has the highest cocaine consumption in Madrid and believe me when I tell you, it's not the poor immigrants from Africa that are bringing those numbers up.

I've never been offered drugs in Retiro and I'm there daily.

My friend bought "drugs" from a Senaglese fella (who he approached) in my area and what was it? Cigarette filters. It's a common enough scam here but technically not dealing drugs. Those poor Africans mostly make their living by selling copies of high-brand hand bags on pieces of material they lug around with them on their backs.

They certainly don't have the monoply on criminal behaviour in this country.

Most drugs dealers and drug smugglars in this country are whote Spaniards, I'm afraid.

I've certainly never seen Muslims so much as drinking in my area, never mind drug dealing.

Madrid is one of the safest cities in Europe so trying to convince me otherwise is laughable.

FTA69

I've certainly never seen Muslims so much as drinking in my area, never mind drug dealing.

Madrid is one of the safest cities in Europe so trying to convince me otherwise is laughable.

Many of those at it on the street in Barcelona are North African immigrants. Regardless of that fact, your point is completely correct. The vast majority of the upper echelons of the drug business is usually in native hands, this is the same in Ireland, France and the UK. The lower-level, street dealing elements may be dominated by poor immigrants but this notion that the drug trade is synonymous with immigration is nonsense.

Legs.Eleven

BluntGuy wrote: »

I'm interested to see where the stats on the Muslim gang rape stuff are.

Oh you and me both, pal.

Legs.Eleven

Norwesterner wrote: »

I support the restriction of immigration.
I'm neither racist nor xenophobic.
I think it's common sense and most countries have immigration control, ie criminals, wasters, opportunists and trouble-makers are kept out.
I'm an immigrant myself abroad.
I work. Pay taxes. Behave myself. Learnt the language etc.
Never received a cent in welfare aid or State help with my rent (mainly because it's an alien concept here. Jaws drop when I tell them what immigrants receive in Ireland).
I earn less abroad for a 50 hour week than an unemployed foreigner receives in my own country
I object to the demonisation of people who want normal immigration control in Ireland as "racist", "rightwing" or "xenophobic".
Entire Triad networks and Criminal gangs have been able to move shop to Ireland due to the Irish fear of saying "NO" to the open door policy.
Let good decent immigrants in, and keep the scum out.
Whats the problem with that???
Oh, and my partner is a coloured lass, so don't dare use the race card against me.

A coloured lass? Did you really just say that?

laoch na mona

FTA69 wrote: »

The lower-level, street dealing elements may be dominated by poor immigrants but this notion that the drug trade is synonymous with immigration is nonsense.

lower level drug dealing is usually poorer people who accepted the societal goal of getting rich but accept deviant means (drug dealing) to do so*. If migrants are attracted to crime it is for the same reason as working class youths

* its a sociological description of how crime occurs ill try find who came up with the concept
found it Robert Merton said we all share accepted social goals but society does not provide all of us with access to socially acceptable means of achieving these goals

crockholm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Because no proof that that is the case has been provided.



Why are we ignoring other rapes of the non-gang variety?

The police won't release names of offenders,they won't even release the name of the brother that killed his own sister in Skåne,which is before the courts atm.all they can use is "they spoke arabic/accented Swedish" which is the common denominator in these cases.This does not to ignore what happens to other rape victims,but,if they would publish the race/ethnicity of the offenders, then you or I could back up claims with statistics.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

We don't have any affirmative action policies in the south, afaik.

Not yet, but I am sure good folks like yourself will be fighting that one soon enough, all in the name of equality I suppose.

Legs.Eleven

crockholm wrote: »

The police won't release names of offenders,they won't even release the name of the brother that killed his own sister in Skåne,which is before the courts atm.all they can use is "they spoke arabic/accented Swedish" which is the common denominator in these cases.This does not to ignore what happens to other rape victims,but,if they would publish the race/ethnicity of the offenders, then you or I could back up claims with statistics.

Eh so this proves that most gang rapes were carried out by non-white non-Europeans? That's your evidence? Not great, is it?

I'm not the one making outlandish claims, so I don't have to prove anything. I won't believe anything (and I mean anything) until I see evidence.

Death and Taxes

jank wrote: »

Not yet, but I am sure good folks like yourself will be fighting that one soon enough, all in the name of equality I suppose.

And your issue with equality is what exactly?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Child rape is a crime associated with humanity. Unless you close all borders to humans, theres a risk of it happening.

Interesting you say that as it hasn't stopped you before bemoaning religion and how people use it as a means of control or oppression, yet if the same argument is used against another group you use the old, sure that's man for you!!

jank

WileyCoyote wrote: »

And your issue with equality is what exactly?

I have an issue with people using equality in the name of furthering a political agenda.

laoch na mona

jank wrote: »

Not yet, but I am sure good folks like yourself will be fighting that one soon enough, all in the name of equality I suppose.

so in your view discrimination in employment is ok?
if affirmative action is ever necessary then it should be brought in. I really do hope that it will not be necessary and that Irish discrimination is limited to travelers (not that that is ok but its so ingrained it will be hard to reverse)

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Interesting you say that as it hasn't stopped you before bemoaning religion and how people use it as a means of control or oppression, yet if the same argument is used against another group you use the old, sure that's man for you!!

....no idea what thats meant to mean.

twinQuins

jank wrote: »

I have an issue with people using equality in the name of furthering a political agenda.

The political agenda being... equality.

You've really thought this one through, haven't you?

crockholm

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Eh so this proves that most gang rapes were carried out by non-white non-Europeans? That's your evidence? Not great, is it?

I'm not the one making outlandish claims, so I don't have to prove anything. I won't believe anything (and I mean anything) until I see evidence.

Try proving anything about gang-rapes then? Perhaps it was crab-people,since it doesn't state that they weren't crab-people either.

You asked a different poster about living in an immigrant area,I can't answer for him,but I do, and my wife has been called a"Swedish Whore" and "Blonde C##t" by Turks here,as have many of her friends.

But have fun in Madrid,and be sure to report anything suspicious on trains there.

laoch na mona

jank wrote: »

I have an issue with people using equality in the name of furthering a political agenda.

an agenda of equality ohh no what will we do now? how will I live in a country where no one is considered inferior.
grow up

old hippy

jank wrote: »

I have an issue with people using equality in the name of furthering a political agenda.

Like an end to apartheid or segregation? Women getting the right to vote? Homosexuality being legalised?

Shocking stuff!

jank

twinQuins wrote: »

The political agenda being... equality.

You've really thought this one through, haven't you?

Oh I have. Tell me how does a country become more equal if we pass legislation that restricts a certain group of peoples opportunities? Are you in favour of affirmative action?

jank

old hippy wrote: »

Like an end to apartheid or segregation? Women getting the right to vote? Homosexuality being legalised?

Shocking stuff!

No, that's good ol fashioned classic liberalism.

old hippy

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

A coloured lass? Did you really just say that?

The only people I know use that are South Africans, white and black, It's used to describe people of mixed race, iirc, or Indian descent. It's seemingly acceptable over there but outside of it - a definite no no.

That or the poster is communicating from the 1950s...

Legs.Eleven

Try proving anything about gang-rapes then? Perhaps it was crab-people,since it doesn't state that they weren't crab-people either.

You can't prove your claims therefore they are unproven. I wouldn't make claims it was the crab people without being able to back it up. End of conversations.

You asked a different poster about living in an immigrant area,I can't answer for him,but I do, and my wife has been called a"Swedish Whore" and "Blonde C##t" by Turks here,as have many of her friends.

I was called a blonde slut, whore, slag by white Irish men in Dublin. What's your point? Interestingly, outside of Dublin, the worst I've been called in my multicultural nieghbourhoods is "puta" (whore) by a white Spaniard and also a "Foreign dickhead" by an old Spanish woman and also told to go home back to my own country by another Spanish guy on the Metro.

But have fun in Madrid,and be sure to report anything suspicious on trains there

Nice one.

old hippy

jank wrote: »

No, that's good ol fashioned classic liberalism.

So, what part of equality gets you in a state, then?

laoch na mona

crockholm wrote: »

my wife has been called a"Swedish Whore" and "Blonde C##t" .

I am sorry your wife was verbally abused

now to my point my cousin was called a Paddy bastard by a lad he got in a fight with in London should we hate the English no, was it wrong to use nationality as an insult yes, correlation does not imply causality.

so don't imply that immigrants insulting your wife to them having a problem with Swedish people or Blonde? people

didn't know blonde was a race but ok

Nodin

old hippy wrote: »

Like an end to apartheid or segregation? Women getting the right to vote? Homosexuality being legalised?

Shocking stuff!

You should put spoiler tags over that kind of talk so decent people don't have to read it.