What are the pros and cons of multiracial multicultural society?

woodoo

What do people think are the positives and negatives of a multiracial and multicultural society? With the future of north america and europe looking increasingly multiracial and multicultural how do you think it will pan out? Will it be a utopia or are humans just too tribal for it to work.

Chucken

woodoo wrote: »

What do people think are the positives and negatives of a multiracial and multicultural society? With the future of north america and europe looking increasingly multiracial and multicultural how do you think it will pan out? Will it be a utopia or are humans just too tribal for it to work.

People have been on the move and mixing since..well, when people could move!

Cavehill Red

As the process of globalisation accelerates on the demand of international big business, which appreciates a docile, servile and mobile labour market, what people may find is that the much-trumpeted benefits of diversity begin to vanish when everywhere starts becoming like everywhere else, with the same high streets with the same shops, and the same mixed population who don't know (or care) who their neighbours are. In other words, too much diversity leads ultimately to monoculture.

Norwesterner

Too many people. Not enough jobs.

o1s1n

It happened in Brazil and they turned out beautiful. The more multiracial the better IMO. Get rid of all this racial inbreeding.

Norwesterner

o1s1n wrote: »

It happened in Brazil and they turned out beautiful. The more multiracial the better IMO. Get rid of all this racial inbreeding.

"Racial inbreeding"?
Isn't that racist in itself?
When you say Brazil turned out beautiful, what do you mean?
Are you saying we should have multi-culturism so we can all look hot?
Irregardless of the economic or social side-effects?
Just so we can all look hot in our shanty towns and ghettoes?

OneArt

Pros:

You can impress people by using chopsticks.

Cons:

You get laughed at for not being able to use chopsticks.

padma

Positives. We learn more about the human family, culture, language and diversity.

Negatives. It's a governments dream having a high percentage of people living in the country with no native ties.

orestes

The main downside is that the Daily Mail will continue to exist and have an audience.

Gatling

So where has multicultural worked
Look at the UK large areas of non national's ghetto's nobody actually want to integrate to English /British society you hear about racism but media at afraid to report when the racism is coming from immigrants ,

Canada its supposed to be most successful but they had tight immigration control ,
The Europe way is deeply flawed ,
Those pro multiculturalism don't know how to implement it ,
Those against are just considered racist

Cavehill Red

o1s1n wrote: »

It happened in Brazil and they turned out beautiful.

Yes. Every last one of them.

kuntboy

DEY TUK UR JABS!

Never quite got that one though. Is it supposed to mean that anyone who (rightly) stated that immigrants were undercutting or taking their jobs, is a racist?

1ZRed

Norwesterner wrote: »

"Racial inbreeding"?
Isn't that racist in itself?
When you say Brazil turned out beautiful, what do you mean?
Are you saying we should have multi-culturism so we can all look hot?
Irregardless of the economic or social side-effects?
Just so we can all look hot in our shanty towns and ghettoes?

Have you not seen this guy or this girl before??

Dunno about you but I would sex ALL over them!

Cavehill Red

1ZRed wrote: »

Have you not seen this guy or this girl before??

Dunno about you but I would sex ALL over them!

I repeat: Yes. Every last one of them.
They have 200 million people, with a new one born every nine seconds. Some of them are going to be pretty. Lots are not. Just like everywhere else. Also, beauty is subjective. I wouldn't 'sex all over' at least one of those two you mentioned, and I imagine neither would the vast majority of people.

1ZRed

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I repeat: Yes. Every last one of them.
They have 200 million people, with a new one born every nine seconds. Some of them are going to be pretty. Lots are not. Just like everywhere else. Also, beauty is subjective. I wouldn't 'sex all over' at least one of those two you mentioned, and I imagine neither would the vast majority of people.

Jaysus, I wonder why?

Missing out! :pac:

Cavehill Red

1ZRed wrote: »

Jaysus, I wonder why?

Missing out! :pac:

Because, as I said, beauty is subjective, and I feel no attraction to one of them. Just like the vast majority of people.

Chucken

kuntboy wrote: »

DEY TUK UR JABS!

Never quite got that one though. Is it supposed to mean that anyone who (rightly) stated that immigrants were undercutting or taking their jobs, is a racist?

Sorry but, what?

What page are you reading?

1ZRed

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Because, as I said, beauty is subjective, and I feel no attraction to one of them. Just like the vast majority of people.

Because you're heterosexual I assume. It's kind of a pic and mix situation we've goin on here, you don't have to be greedy and want all of them, just the ones you like

Cavehill Red

1ZRed wrote: »

Because you're heterosexual I assume. It's kind of a pic and mix situation we've goin on here, you don't have to be greedy and want all of them, just the ones you like

How many of the Brazilians I linked to did YOU like?
As I also said, because there's 200 million of them, it's easy to cherrypick.

1ZRed

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How many of the Brazilians I linked to did YOU like?
As I also said, because there's 200 million of them, it's easy to cherrypick.

Easy to cheery pick the bad ones to help make your point as well

But that's beside the point. I thought each one was beautiful in their own way

Chucken

1ZRed wrote: »

Easy to cheery pick the bad ones to help make your point as well

But that's beside the point. I thought each one was beautiful in their own way

The thread is about "multiracial multicultural society", not "whatever your having yourself"

Cavehill Red

Chucken wrote: »

The thread is about "multiracial multicultural society", not "whatever your having yourself"

Exactly. If one of the alleged benefits of multiculturalism is that we will all become one super-beautiful race, then there are plenty of ugly Brazilians out there to disprove that thesis.

1ZRed

Chucken wrote: »

The thread is about "multiracial multicultural society", not "whatever your having yourself"

But is that not multiracial multiculturalism? Having whatever ever you want yourself because it doesn't matter. It's all good isn't it Chucken?

Cavehill Red

1ZRed wrote: »

But is that not multiracial multiculturalism? Having whatever ever you want yourself because it doesn't matter. It's all good isn't it Chucken?

No, that's not multiracial multiculturalism.
Multiculturalism is an increasingly discredited ideology which espouses the notion that widely different cultures can co-exist peaceably and to the benefit of all. It developed in contrast to the previous 'melting pot' model of integration and assimilation that governed much immigration prior to the latter half of the 20th century.
Because multiculturalism advocates the idea of plural cultures existing alongside each other, it isn't a case of 'whatever you want yourself' increasingly, because the wants of one culture often clash with the wants of another. This has led, in some instances to things like Sharia advocates doing vigilante patrols on the streets of London, looking to punish gay people or public drinkers.

1ZRed

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No, that's not multiracial multiculturalism.
Multiculturalism is an increasingly discredited ideology which espouses the notion that widely different cultures can co-exist peaceably and to the benefit of all. It developed in contrast to the previous 'melting pot' model of integration and assimilation that governed much immigration prior to the latter half of the 20th century.
Because multiculturalism advocates the idea of plural cultures existing alongside each other, it isn't a case of 'whatever you want yourself' increasingly, because the wants of one culture often clash with the wants of another. This has led, in some instances to things like Sharia advocates doing vigilante patrols on the streets of London, looking to punish gay people or public drinkers.

Oh, you thought I was being serious?

Wanted to get a bit of a rise but didn't expect to get that much sand in your vagina and for you to get worked up about it

Cavehill Red

1ZRed wrote: »

Oh, you thought I was being serious?

I think you were, actually. It seemed rather evident you didn't understand the terms being discussed, given that your posts all referred to how many Brazilians you wanted to bang.

1ZRed

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I think you were, actually. It seemed rather evident you didn't understand the terms being discussed, given that your posts all referred to how many Brazilians you wanted to bang.

Well think what you like tbh. My posts were pisstakes, whether you want to believe it or not

Cavehill Red

1ZRed wrote: »

Well think what you like tbh. My posts were pisstakes, whether you want to believe it or not

Aw. Now who's got the sandy knickers, eh?

1ZRed

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Aw. Now who's got the sandy knickers, eh?

It's the price to pay after you drop the hand after you've sorted yourself out mate :pac:

pabloh999

Pro: hot foreign chicks.

Con: foreign people are sh*te drivers.

Grayson

pabloh999 wrote: »

Pro: hot foreign chicks.

Con: foreign people are sh*te drivers.

To be fair, Irish people are ****e drivers. I think about 1 in 4 know how to use an indicator.

Norwesterner wrote: »

"Racial inbreeding"?
Isn't that racist in itself?
When you say Brazil turned out beautiful, what do you mean?
Are you saying we should have multi-culturism so we can all look hot?
Irregardless of the economic or social side-effects?
Just so we can all look hot in our shanty towns and ghettoes?

Because having people from outside your shallow gene pool = Shandy town and poverty.


This is going to turn into one of those threads where people start saying irelands going to have ghetto's etc...
There were large parts of dublin that were sh1tholes before the boom and it was all irish people. They're still sh1tholes and have some foreigners in them. I'm fed up with people making up stories about how polish people live 15 to a two bedroomed flat. Or there used to be fish and swans in the canal before they turned up.
Although to be fair, I know of one woman who had this darling child until the foreigners turned up. Then the kid turned into a bastard. I think they sneaked in and took the child in the night and swapped him for one of their own. Her cows stopped producing milk the next day. And then her left eye fell out.

keeponhurling

Pros:
Broadens people's horizons, learn different ways of doing things.
Large selection of food
Chance to improve language skills
Good looking people (depends on people's taste of course)


Cons:
Foreign welfare spongers (though we have many Irish spongers too, just need to enforce things properly)

Grand Moff Tarkin

This thread can only end well.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The average southerner is happy with partition. All these Republican groups have an ideal which is no longer wanted. That's the reason that they now engage in organised crime. There's no cause to fight anymore, we don't want the 6 counties.

Grayson

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

This thread can only end well.

Why don't we just settle it now.

Pro: New different people with a different outlook on life. They expand our cultural horizons and help us appreciate our place within a global community

Cons: New different people with a different outlook on life. They will destroy our culture, take our jobs and our women.

Festy

PRO - Beautiful women everywhere

CON - Good looking men everywhere :mad:

wintersolstice

are there any pros? it does't seem to work too well in any country that is multicultured.UK is a nightmare.

Grayson

wintersolstice wrote: »

are there any pros? it does't seem to work too well in any country that is multicultured.UK is a nightmare.

And sweden is a hell hole.

GalwayGuy2

Although to be fair, I know of one woman who had this darling child until the foreigners turned up. Then the kid turned into a bastard. I think they sneaked in and took the child in the night and swapped him for one of their own. Her cows stopped producing milk the next day. And then her left eye fell out.

Swear to god, heard someone complaining about how a school was becoming worse and they said it was the "Polish kid's" fault:rolleyes:
It's a bit horrible to drag children into it.

And sweden is a hell hole.

Hmmm, is Sweden multicultural? As in integrated fully into society?

keeponhurling

wintersolstice wrote: »

are there any pros? it does't seem to work too well in any country that is multicultured.UK is a nightmare.

Perhaps we should be looking more towards the North Korean model, closed borders and the like

Grayson

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Swear to god, heard someone complaining about how a school was becoming worse and they said it was the "Polish kid's" fault:rolleyes:
It's a bit horrible to drag children into it.



Hmmm, is Sweden multicultural? As in integrated fully into society?

Sweden has some problems with poor immigrants in poor neighborhoods. But those are more social issues. As good a sweden is, it's not perfect. There are still poor neighborhoods with poor people. And in areas like that you are going to find issues like drugs and violence arising.
But it's nothing like france or the UK. Multiculturalism isn't really the problem. It's the societies fault. When immigrants started arriving in both countries they were marginalized. And you ended up with neighborhoods like the Parisian suburbs where they are turning into ghetto's. In ireland we don't have that as much. It's not like we have a black or chinese neighborhood. With the exception of some of the richer areas, people who came to ireland are pretty well spread out. They're in every town, every estate. Their kids are in every school. Immigrants from pretty much every country managed to come here and integrate pretty well.

Shenshen

Grayson wrote: »

And sweden is a hell hole.

As is Germany, one would imagine... lots of non-nationals and 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants and look how badly that turned out.

Death and Taxes

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

This thread can only end well.

Couldn't agree more.

doolox

I would prefer a small amount of gradual multi ethnic mixing because the way we have gone is too sudden and too demanding on the average worker and the person of average language and social skills.

There is a certain element of truth in the hackneyed phrase "they took our jobs". Many Irish native people have been displaced in recent years by foreign people in many sectors and have to emigrate. It could be the case that the native Irish do not want to do the low paid difficult hours and physically demanding work that some foreigners will happily do. Two examples spring to mind, care of the elderly and meat processing which seem to be the preserve of Filipino and Brazilian workers with little or no input at the junior level by the Irish.

Problems arise when there is a mixed workforce with bad or lazy management and a reluctance to discipline workers in an fair and equal manner. Because of the perceived lower standard of language by some foreigners less demanding standards of behaviour and accuracy can be demanded off them if the management are too lazy to take the effort to control and direct all their employees equally and fairly. I have seen this go both ways, where native Irish are expected to carry the can by being allocated the more difficult and demanding parts of the work because of their perceived better langauge understanding or the foreigner being given the hard work because of the perception that they are more desperate for the work etc. and "dont know their rights"

Some people depending on work visas from a single employer can find this dependancy on one employer is exploited while the Irish native can jump ship and get another job if their present employment becomes to difficult or demanding.

While multi culturalism may be good for the users of employees and services it is not so good for the suppliers especially those at the bottom of the skills spectrum or those with easily transferable skills, hence you have major flashpoints among taxi workers, manual labourers etc who see their working conditions and earnings being eroded by the influx of cheap foreign labour.

More work needs to be done in informing people of their rights in employment contracts, the real high cost of living here in Ireland needs to be signposted clearly so that workers can make viable long term choices about the working earnings. I do not believe that foreign workers choose to work here for lower wages than the Irish but it is not pointed out to them how dear it is to live in Ireland. Many do not find out until it is too late and they have agreed to ridiculously low wages, long hours and onerous working conditions. This needs to be policed vigourously.

Multiculturalism is fine in small doses but it does not suit everybody and should not be forced on the native population at too high a speed solely for the benefit of the upper middle class and elite classes at the expense of working conditions and earning power of the lower classes.

Previous notes mentioned Brazil as an example of multiethnic society, some of their cities have the highest murder rates in the world.
Also South Africa has a very high murder rate even after the end of Aparthied.

mikemac1

Top post ^^^^

woodoo

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

This thread can only end well.

It has started reasonably well so far. Hopefully it stays that way.

We often hear people give out about passing on our debts to our children, it is talked about online, in the pubs, in the media, on TV etc. What you never hear discussed is what sort of society are we passing on to our children and grandchildren. Will it work? Is it wise to chance so quickly? Is the multicultural model really a good one? Would assimilation be better? Do people really want this change? They are all valid questions and i'm sure there are many more. Why is it never discussed. Why are the media so afraid of it.

Shenshen

woodoo wrote: »

It has started reasonably well so far. Hopefully it stays that way.

We often hear people give out about passing on our debts to our children, it is talked about online, in the pubs, in the media, on TV etc. What you never hear discussed is what sort of society are we passing on to our children and grandchildren. Will it work? Is it wise to chance so quickly? Is the multicultural model really a good one? Would assimilation be better? Do people really want this change? They are all valid questions and i'm sure there are many more. Why is it never discussed. Why are the media so afraid of it.

I think assimilation is not a viable approach.
I'm German living in Ireland, and much as I love it here, I would not have stayed if I had the feeling that I needed to assimilate rather than integrate.
For starters, I don't drink...

I think what needs to be promoted is integration - of both the newcomers and the native population. Integration can never happen from just one side. And integration should mean agreeing on the same basic social standards and ethical behaviour, nothing more but also nothing less.
I feel that coming to a new country, people do need to be aware that moral standards might be slightly or very different (to me, coming to Ireland meant facing much more conservative and restricted moral framework), and people need to be ready to adhere to that.
At the same time, I think natives need to accept that outside of this framework, people need to be entitled to live their lives as they please. And that ranges from the food they eat to the way they dress to what cars they drive to the music they listen to to the language they speak.

People will list the US and Brazil with their high numbers of crime as examples of failed multiculturalism, but I think that the reasons behind those crimes are far more banal than that.
Both countries have a very large gap between the very, very rich and the incredibly poor, which is never a good recipe for a stable society. On top of that, both countries have numbers of almost insanely large cities - and human beings living in too great numbers in too little space have this tendency to become very aggressive towards each other.

fryup

pros - fitter looking women, we become more sophisticated & worldly and less bog brained & parochial, more ethnic restaurants, cheaper plumbers

cons - some sponge our dole, steal our women, having to repeat yourself when you're at the till
oh yes just remembered...stealing clothes from our charities (did you see primetime the other night?) :mad:

Death and Taxes

fryup wrote: »

pros - fitter looking women, we become more sophisticated and less bog brained, more ethnic restaurants, cheaper plumbers

cons - some sponge our dole, steal our women, having to repeat yourself when you're at the till :mad:

What do you mean steal, are you suggesting that maurading groups of forigeners are involved in high levels of kidnapping?;)

bb1234567

I hate the idea. Completely against it, countries are losing their native people and culture. And I'm not being racist it just makes me sad, eventually the human race will just become one look alike race and there will be no such thing as diversity.

Shenshen

bb1234567 wrote: »

I hate the idea. Completely against it, countries are losing their native people and culture. And I'm not being racist it just makes me sad, eventually the human race will just become one look alike race and there will be no such thing as diversity.

*lol How do you think those "native" people came to be there in the first place? Unless you happen to post from the East African Rift Valley, you're just as much a blow-in as the rest of us, and just as much a mongrel.

But sure, let's freeze all countries and societies just as they are right now, and never ever change a thing about them ever again.