Why do extremist Muslims hate/fear women so much?

Celly Smunt

Madam_X wrote: »

Saudi Arabia - not a great example tbh. While specifically very rich women enjoy plenty of privileges, they're not doing too well as regards basics rights.

You'll rarely hear a Saudi woman complain over her rights or her life,but you'll hear american journalists complain for her.Saudi women having no rights in reality day to day in Saudi is practically a myth,in fact they usually hold higher positions than men and usually control the money.

General General

pmcmahon wrote: »

You'll rarely hear a Saudi woman complain over her rights or her life,but you'll hear american journalists complain for her.Saudi women having no rights in reality day to day in Saudi is practically a myth,in fact they usually hold higher positions than men and usually control the money.

Uh... what?

Celly Smunt

General General wrote: »

Uh... what?

shocked?,spend some time in saudi.

seenitall

pmcmahon wrote: »

You'll rarely hear a Saudi woman complain over her rights or her life,but you'll hear american journalists complain for her.Saudi women having no rights in reality day to day in Saudi is practically a myth,in fact they usually hold higher positions than men and usually control the money.

I thought they weren't allowed to drive? Or travel anywhere unless chaperoned by a male relative? Are they not meant to have a male 'guardian' at all stages of life?

Yet they manage to hold higher positions than men and control the money? Wow.

General General

pmcmahon wrote: »

shocked?,spend some time in saudi.

So your evidence is..? & don't say: I seen it when I was there.

Celly Smunt

seenitall wrote: »

I thought they weren't allowed to drive?
Or travel anywhere unless chaperoned by a male relative?
Are they not meant to have a male 'guardian' at all stages of life?

Yet they manage to hold higher positions than men and control the money? Wow.

No they're not allowed to drive (free taxi service?

They don't have to be chaperoned by a male relative,no.

Guardian can include any family member and is more religious than anything.

Yes they do,they hold more professional roles than men.

And yes,they control the family's financial affairs and/or their business affairs.

Celly Smunt

General General wrote: »

So your evidence is..? & don't say: I seen it when I was there.

I did see it when i was there and you can see it yourself if you do a little click of that mouse of yours.

pharmaton

pmcmahon wrote: »

I did see it when i was there and you can see it yourself if you do a little click of that mouse of yours.

I had a quick click

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Employment

Women are allowed to work as long as their husbands or their male guardians approve of the work. A woman's work must also be deemed suitable for the female physique and mentality. For example, it is forbidden for women to be appointed as judges, and positions of high public office are reserved for men.[26][27][28] Teaching and nursing are common professions for women. The number of women working in finance increased 280% between 2000 and 2008.[59]

General General

pmcmahon wrote: »

I did see it when i was there and you can see it yourself if you do a little click of that mouse of yours.

So you carried out a lot of surveys when you were over there, yeah?

Maybe you can give me a link to some of the research..

Celly Smunt

General General wrote: »

So you carried out a lot of surveys when you were over there, yeah?

Maybe you can give me a link to some of the research..

what do you want to know? clearly i didn't survey anybody :rolleyes:

General General

pmcmahon wrote: »

what do you want to know?

Whether or not you can provide credible sources that will back up your claims & what those sources are... that's what I want to know.

Celly Smunt

pharmaton wrote: »

I had a quick click

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Employment

you won't find women on building sites,nor will you see them here very often.Judges etc are appointed by the royal family representatives of the region which i grant you are men due to the ties with Imams.

pharmaton

pmcmahon wrote: »

you won't find women on building sites,nor will you see them here very often.Judges etc are appointed by the royal family representatives of the region which i grant you are men due to the ties with Imams.

from the same link

Women in Saudi Arabia make up between 5% and 15% of the workforce.

Celly Smunt

General General wrote: »

Whether or not you can provide credible sources that will back up your claims & what those sources are... that's what I want to know.

Education

Washington Post wrote:

There's a secret weapon in Saudi Arabia often forgotten and frequently ignored by the West: Saudi women — and they are smart, intelligent and qualified. Thanks to the Muslim injunction to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave, they are educated to the same level as, if not higher than, the men, and their grades are often better. They are PhDs, have second degrees and exercise huge influence in the family, or extended family; they organize the households, marriages and other rites of passage and they understand the social and tribal webs and networks.

Because of the basis of inheritance in shari'ah (Islamic law), they own considerable fortunes in their own right and indeed a good part of the wealth of the country. They also don't have to change their names following marriage. Under shari'ah a woman is supposed to have control of her inheritance, dowry before and after marriage. Many businesses are owned by women, according to the lists kept by the regional Chambers of Commerce & Industry. But these lists have not made a distinction between those businesses actively run by women and those owned by them. For instance, in the industrial sector industries owned by women amount to more than SR4.5 billion ($1.2 billion), but few women are actively running these investments.

Celly Smunt

pharmaton wrote: »

from the same link

Due to the fact that the majority of women don't have to work,not because they aren't allowed to work.Also did you also take into consideration the roles of those 15% hold such as teachers,nurses,doctors etc etc?

pharmaton

pmcmahon wrote: »

Due to the fact that the majority of women don't have to work,not because they aren't allowed to work.Also did you also take into consideration the roles of those 15% hold such as teachers,nurses,doctors etc etc?

I did, in context though it's still seems like a bleak existence based in Sharia law
education

General General

pmcmahon wrote: »

Originally Posted by Washington Post
There's a secret weapon in Saudi Arabia often forgotten and frequently ignored by the West: Saudi women — and they are smart, intelligent and qualified. Thanks to the Muslim injunction to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave, they are educated to the same level as, if not higher than, the men, and their grades are often better. They are PhDs, have second degrees and exercise huge influence in the family, or extended family; they organize the households, marriages and other rites of passage and they understand the social and tribal webs and networks.

Because of the basis of inheritance in shari'ah (Islamic law), they own considerable fortunes in their own right and indeed a good part of the wealth of the country. They also don't have to change their names following marriage. Under shari'ah a woman is supposed to have control of her inheritance, dowry before and after marriage. Many businesses are owned by women, according to the lists kept by the regional Chambers of Commerce & Industry. But these lists have not made a distinction between those businesses actively run by women and those owned by them. For instance, in the industrial sector industries owned by women amount to more than SR4.5 billion ($1.2 billion), but few women are actively running these investments.

Link is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-adv/specialsales/spotlight/saudi/art14.html

Features, given the circumstances here, the exceptionally noteworthy caveat: This Special Advertising Supplement was produced by Metropolitan Press, an Impact Media company, and did not involve the editorial or reporting staff of The Washington Post.

Celly Smunt

General General wrote: »

Link is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-adv/specialsales/spotlight/saudi/art14.html

Features, given the circumstances here, the exceptionally noteworthy caveat: This Special Advertising Supplement was produced by Metropolitan Press, an Impact Media company, and did not involve the editorial or reporting staff of The Washington Post.

How about research carried out by the university of maryland then?

University of Maryland wrote:

UMUCWorking Paper Series –Number 2009‐002
Women Entrepreneursin Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
• Women control much of wealth in the country and thus women entrepreneurs
have access to informal funding. Saudi women as a whole own estimated cash
funds of SR45 billion, of which “75% is sitting idle in bank deposits.” (Parker,
2007).
• Women own about four percent of the total registered businesses in the Kingdom
with 5,500 commercial registrations of women’s projects, representing 20% of the
business in the retail, contracting, wholesale and transferable industries sectors
(Parker, 2007). Arab News published Top 20 List of Saudi Women’s Business in
March 2007. “Saudi men have traditionally been the entrepreneurs but our women
are no longer standing in the shadows. They have stepped into the light and have
become the backbone of society. We in the Kingdom are fortunate to have welleducated, financially powerful women (Almaeena, 2007).
• Some Saudi women participate in entrepreneurial efforts through their families.
Women own some 40% of family run companies, very often as silent partners
(Parker, 2007).
• Not all Saudi men are against women working or owning businesses. Some
women entrepreneurs receive support psychological support and business advice
from their husbands and fathers.

General General

pmcmahon wrote: »

How about research carried out by the university of maryland then?

Originally Posted by University of Maryland
UMUCWorking Paper Series –Number 2009‐002
Women Entrepreneursin Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
• Women control much of wealth in the country and thus women entrepreneurs
have access to informal funding. Saudi women as a whole own estimated cash
funds of SR45 billion, of which “75% is sitting idle in bank deposits.” (Parker,
2007).
• Women own about four percent of the total registered businesses in the Kingdom
with 5,500 commercial registrations of women’s projects, representing 20% of the
business in the retail, contracting, wholesale and transferable industries sectors
(Parker, 2007). Arab News published Top 20 List of Saudi Women’s Business in
March 2007. “Saudi men have traditionally been the entrepreneurs but our women
are no longer standing in the shadows. They have stepped into the light and have
become the backbone of society. We in the Kingdom are fortunate to have welleducated, financially powerful women (Almaeena, 2007).
• Some Saudi women participate in entrepreneurial efforts through their families.
Women own some 40% of family run companies, very often as silent partners
(Parker, 2007).
• Not all Saudi men are against women working or owning businesses. Some
women entrepreneurs receive support psychological support and business advice
from their husbands and fathers.

Link to copy of report in PDF: http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Women+Entrepreneurs+in+Riyadh%2C+Saudi+Arabia&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fncys.ksu.edu.sa%2Fsites%2Fncys.ksu.edu.sa%2Ffiles%2FSaudi%2520women%252014.pdf&ei=Xtp1UYqMDIiX7QaczYFY&usg=AFQjCNEralepjU17-8S8P-ErYCM-tJhmwA&sig2=yMw7ToR3i3MdGiJWM-xl2g&bvm=bv.45512109,d.ZGU

Sorry that the link is so long.

Uh. Good report. However, if anyone reads page 7, they can see the report doesn't exactly back up your claims.

45% of the population, 4% ownership of the total registered businesses, a fraction of which are as silent partners. & don't forget that there is an elite, so 2 of that 4 percentage points may be members of the leading ten or hundred families.

Anyway, it's almost 2 here. G'night.

Chuck Stone

I'd rather be poor, dumb, and free than rich, educated, and living in a medieval ****-hole like Saudi Arabia.

smurfjed

That report was in 2007 under King Fahd, the situation today is totally different.

smurfjed

token101

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Everyone wants control? Its not fear but insecurity (bit of an oxymoron, no?)

Yes everyone wants a degree of control. It's why things like democracy exist. No, you could be insecure in a relationship for plenty of reasons. You could be jealous for instance. Jealousy is not necessarily based on fear.

WayneMolloy wrote: »

It mostly happens in Islamic countries, but its not a religous thing?

It doesn't ONLY happen in Islamic countries though and it doesn't happen uniformly there either. I'm no fan of the Islamic faith and even less so of its interpretation but even I'll admit there are moderate Muslims too.

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Its primitive but natural?

Yes. Wanting to control everything is primitive; it's a natural thing to want to do. Learning to lose that grip is a learned behaviour.

WayneMolloy wrote: »

There is Irish people who are not fearful, but insecure, who want a demented form of control like in Islamic countries?

There are Irish men and women who exist in abusive relationships where control is power. I would venture a guess that there are relationships where men/women are fearful of leaving the house for fear of what their controlling, jealous, abusive partner might do.

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Defuq am I reading here.

I realise all this is difficult but it's actually 'dafuq' too while we're at it.

B0jangles

Here's a (pretty old) blog I came across a while ago written by an expat Saudi man.

http://muttawa.blogspot.kr/

He has some interesting observations of the status of women in his country.

Grayson

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd rather be poor, dumb, and free than rich, educated, and living in a medieval ****-hole like Saudi Arabia.

Depends. Money can buy a lot of freedom. Lack of money can restrict your freedom a lot. It could be argued that a rich woman in Saudi has more oppertunities, or at least a greater chance of availing of the freedoms they do have, than a poor woman in the west.

(BTW, I realise that's not an argument for or against Sauid. I just thought it was relevant to that post)