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Why do extremist Muslims hate/fear women so much?

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    #122
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    lower_league wrote: »
    the only thing muslims and travellers have in common is that they both feature on the " sacred cow list " of the liberal left

    at all times , allowances must be made for both , regardless of the circumstances
    Nah I'm on the "liberal left" (as opposed to the... "non liberal left"...?) and I have no problem with saying there are serious problems within the traveller community and within islamic fundamentalist societies... it's just that I don't like deciding they're ALL like that, which they're not. I think that's probably what you mean - good to learn the distinction.


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    #123
    whydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭whydoc


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Yes, even the peaceful buddhists can be awfully sexist, which is quite frustrating
    Tenzin palmo has encountered it a lot
    http://spiritualityhealth.com/articles/there-still-glass-ceiling-enlightenment
    Do you really mean it ?
    http://islamicnafahat.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/muslims-in-burma-are-facing-a-state-terrrorism/

    Do you know they are taking muslim women as sex slaves in Burma :eek:


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    #124
    Carry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Yeh it's been covered. The focus is on today though.

    No, I think it's about the cultural and social mindset of religion as such. It's not so long ago that the church in Ireland treated woman any better, though not in that extreme.

    Fine, I've read the story in the OP, and it's awful. But I'm suspicious whenever other religions are blamed for their backwardness when the local religion isn't any better, or rather their representatives. It still does happen in Ireland that women are condemned and ostracised by local priests, often very publicly.

    Muslims/Christians/Jews or Catholics/Protestants or whichever denominations are not to blame as such. It's the culture in which such religions thrive, the cultural and the political background and the development of society.

    So please stay focused on social backgrounds not on religion as such.
    Talk, in this case, about the Taliban, poverty, oppression or whatever. And keep in mind that we in the Western World aren't any better, only with a more civilised veneer.


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    #125
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Nah I'm on the "liberal left" (as opposed to the... "non liberal left"...?) and I have no problem with saying there are serious problems within the traveller community and within islamic fundamentalist societies... it's just that I don't like deciding they're ALL like that, which they're not. I think that's probably what you mean - good to learn the distinction.


    well i will accept that the majority of muslims are not troublemakers where as the bulk of travellers are


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    #126
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Carry wrote: »
    Witch burning anyone? Or Magdalene Laundries?

    Did anyone notice that all organized religions, and I include the oh so peaceful Buddhists here - not only the monotheistic, patriarchic religions - are fearful of women and interpret their so-called spirituality as male-dominated?

    Well?
    whydoc wrote: »
    Do you really mean it ?
    http://islamicnafahat.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/muslims-in-burma-are-facing-a-state-terrrorism/

    Do you know they are taking muslim women as sex slaves in Burma :eek:

    I was quoting the lad above ^


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    #127
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    Carry wrote: »
    No, I think it's about the cultural and social mindset of religion as such. It's not so long ago that the church in Ireland treated woman any better, though not in that extreme.

    Fine, I've read the story in the OP, and it's awful. But I'm suspicious whenever other religions are blamed for their backwardness when the local religion isn't any better, or rather their representatives. It still does happen in Ireland that women are condemned and ostracised by local priests, often very publicly.

    Muslims/Christians/Jews or Catholics/Protestants or whichever denominations are not to blame as such. It's the culture in which such religions thrive, the cultural and the political background and the development of society.

    So please stay focused on social backgrounds not on religion as such.
    Talk, in this case, about the Taliban, poverty, oppression or whatever. And keep in mind that we in the Western World aren't any better, only with a more civilised veneer.


    an A student in " moral relativism " i see


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    #128
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Women living under the Taliban would give anything for the freedoms we have here. I know the perpetrators of the cruelties they endure in other societies are conditioned to be that way over centuries, millennia even, but I won't accept that society here is no better. It is better, irrespective of the church's treatment of women up to only 30-odd years ago (which was also grotesque).

    I really think the viciousness of Sharia Law is fair game for a lot of criticism, without there necessarily being an agenda behind the criticism.


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    #129
    Carry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    lower_league wrote: »
    an A student in " moral relativism " "thinking for herself" i see

    MA in political sciences and sociology actually, you see.


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    #130
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    Carry wrote: »
    MA in political sciences and sociology actually, you see.

    sociology :rolleyes:


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    #131
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    is it because God/Allah/Buddha is a dude maybe


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    #132
    Carry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Women living under the Taliban would give anything for the freedoms we have here. I know the perpetrators of the cruelties they endure in other societies are conditioned to be that way over centuries, millennia even, but I won't accept that society here is no better. It is better, irrespective of the church's treatment of women up to only 30-odd years ago (which was also grotesque).

    I really think the viciousness of Sharia Law is fair game for a lot of criticism, without there necessarily being an agenda behind the criticism.

    Yes, I agree of course. We are compared to women who live in underdeveloped countries extremely privileged. I'm grateful for that. Otherwise I couldn't write my opinions openly like this.

    But I feel very uncomfortable when oppression of women is generally confined to a muslim society. Muslim women can be relatively emancipated, in developed countries at least.

    We have to thank democracy that the Catholic Church is not as much in power anymore as it wished to be, even if they tried it not only 30 years ago but still today - unsuccessfully thanks to enlightenment. Without democracy they would have loved to "put women in their place" until today. Still try, don't they?

    History of our own Western/Christian culture should not be forgotten by judging other cultures. That's all what I meant.


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    #133
    Steve O
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Steve O


    Gordon Ramsey really has a point here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syRQ7iShpzY


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    #134
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    always amuses me how whenever negative stories involving muslims pop up , liberals immedietly pull out the " sure the catholic church stuck young women in laundries only a few decades ago "

    the whole thing becomes one big fat , benchmark against other bad behaviour , red herring , fudge , circle jerk

    i guess its entirely in keeping with the inscessant moral relativism of the pc left


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    #135
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    lower_league wrote: »
    always amuses me how whenever negative stories involving muslims pop up , liberals immedietly pull out the " sure the catholic church stuck young women in laundries only a few decades ago "

    the whole thing becomes one big fat , benchmark against other bad behaviour , red herring , fudge , circle jerk

    i guess its entirely in keeping with the inscessant moral relativism of the pc left

    a negative story about how muslims treat women and a relevant story about how Catholics have treated women in the past? where's the problem?


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    #136
    whydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭whydoc


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Women living under the Taliban would give anything for the freedoms we have here. I know the perpetrators of the cruelties they endure in other societies are conditioned to be that way over centuries, millennia even, but I won't accept that society here is no better. It is better, irrespective of the church's treatment of women up to only 30-odd years ago (which was also grotesque).

    I really think the viciousness of Sharia Law is fair game for a lot of criticism, without there necessarily being an agenda behind the criticism.


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    #137
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Carry wrote: »
    Witch burning anyone? Or Magdalene Laundries?

    Did anyone notice that all organized religions, and I include the oh so peaceful Buddhists here - not only the monotheistic, patriarchic religions - are fearful of women and interpret their so-called spirituality as male-dominated?

    Well?

    How about dealing with the original topic? If you want to discuss how other religions have treated women or other minorities start your own thread.

    It seems that every single thread looking to discuss the negatives of Islam result in the Catholics or other religions being brought into the discussion. It's quite weak and pathetic.


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    #138
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    pharmaton wrote: »
    a negative story about how muslims treat women and a relevant story about how Catholics have treated women in the past? where's the problem?

    It's called deflection. How about actually discussing the OP topic .


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    #139
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    How about dealing with the original topic? If you want to discuss how other religions have treated women or other minorities start your own thread.

    It seems that every single thread looking to discuss the negatives of Islam result in the Catholics or other religions being brought into the discussion. It's quite weak and pathetic.
    The question was fairly straightforward, there is a fairly straightforward answer.
    All the religions mentioned are patriarchal in design.

    Patriarchy :
    is a social system in which the male is the primary authority figure central to social organization and the central roles of political leadership, moral authority, and control of property, and where fathers hold authority over women and children. It implies the institutions of male rule and privilege, and entails female subordination. Many patriarchal societies are also patrilineal, meaning that property and title are inherited by the male lineage. The female equivalent is matriarchy.
    Historically, patriarchy has manifested itself in the social, legal, political, and economic organization of a range of different cultures. Patriarchy also has a strong influence on modern civilization, although many cultures have moved towards a more egalitarian social system over the past century.[1]


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    #140
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    imtdub wrote: »
    This is not faith, according to Islamic Faith acquiring Knowledge is a must

    "Seeking knowledge is obligatory on every Muslim
    man and woman" as per Holy Prophet


    These are the first verses revealed in the Holy Koran.

    "Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists). He has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen. He has taught man that which he knew not" [Quran, 96: 1-5]


    So what's happening in Afghanistan is not faith...

    Thanks for your answer. Do you think that Islam encourages women to succeed in professional fields and business? If not why? There seems to be vastly different intrepetations of the Koran among different sects of Islam.


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    #141
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    pharmaton wrote: »
    a negative story about how muslims treat women and a relevant story about how Catholics have treated women in the past? where's the problem?

    why bring the latter up unless you wish to engage in whataboutery


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    #142
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    lower_league wrote: »
    why bring the latter up unless you wish to engage in whataboutery

    Great discussion, nice talking to you


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    #143
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    How about dealing with the original topic? If you want to discuss how other religions have treated women or other minorities start your own thread.

    It seems that every single thread looking to discuss the negatives of Islam result in the Catholics or other religions being brought into the discussion. It's quite weak and pathetic.


    catholicism doesnt make the sacred cow list of the pc left , islam does


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    #144
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    pharmaton wrote: »
    Great discussion, nice talking to you

    i wouldnt call it great myself , bit like playing handball against haystack


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    #145
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    This is a cultural problem not an Islamic problem.


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    #146
    pharmaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭pharmaton


    lower_league wrote: »
    i wouldnt call it great myself , bit like playing handball against haystack
    thats probably because you don't really want to discuss anything you don't agree with


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    #147
    lower_league
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭lower_league


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    This is a cultural problem not an Islamic problem.

    its a cultural problem within islam , to deny this is , is willfully dishonest


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    #148
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    lower_league wrote: »
    its a cultural problem within islam , to deny this is , is willfully dishonest

    Did you know there are more women than men in Saudi arabia with Third level degrees and postgrads?

    Sort of proves on this point that the Taliban are backward fucks that don't represent islam rather than the other way around.


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    #149
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    This is a cultural problem not an Islamic problem.

    This is right.

    We here in Ireland (along with the rest of the West) live in a culture where women have gained equality in the last 100 or so years.

    The source of this was the Enlightenment idea of Equality.

    All people are equal: this is an idea which started in Europe in the 16 and 1700's.

    It took a long time for it to saturate our culture.

    It is easy to hold those who have other values in disdain.

    Our challenge is to recognise where we have come from, and also to recognise where we are going.

    As has been pointed out already it is patriarchal cultures which are historically the most prevalent.


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    #150
    Pinewoo
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Pinewoo


    Sorry if it's been mentioned already I didn't read the thread but generally religion and extremist religion views strive on people not being educated to see through the nonsense. Suppose if you can suppress 50% of the population being educated it does wonders for promoting your rubbish propaganda.


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    #151
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    pmcmahon wrote: »
    Did you know there are more women than men in Saudi arabia with Third level degrees and postgrads?

    Sort of proves on this point that the Taliban are backward fucks that don't represent islam rather than the other way around.
    Saudi Arabia - not a great example tbh. While specifically very rich women enjoy plenty of privileges, they're not doing too well as regards basics rights.


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