Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

kevthegaff

i know but should have them cleared by september(hopefully), at least there may be an end of sight. they way i see it theres a lot more lads worse off than meself with families etc

PMU

conn gold (aurivo) up to 37cent for may

Timmaay

kevthegaff wrote: »

i know but should have them cleared by september(hopefully), at least there may be an end of sight. they way i see it there alot more lads worse off than meself with families etc

Agreed certainly, I'm in a similar situation, no family etc yet, but I certainly know dairy farmers who expanded abit, pushed on the stocking rate like the teagasc/glanbia told us we have to do, and fook me they are struggling at the minute with the last summer/spring we had. I personally have plenty of confidence in dairying moving forward in terms of Ireland as a low cost grass based milk producer, but this whole co-ops not going a fair price is a big stumbling block, why would I bother breaking my back expanding for them to take the cream of the profit.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Agreed certainly, I'm in a similar situation, no family etc yet, but I certainly know dairy farmers who expanded abit, pushed on the stocking rate like the teagasc/glanbia told us we have to do, and fook me they are struggling at the minute with the last summer/spring we had. I personally have plenty of confidence in dairying moving forward in terms of Ireland as a low cost grass based milk producer, but this whole co-ops not going a fair price is a big stumbling block, why would I bother breaking my back expanding for them to take the cream of the profit.

This is why we should be very reluctant to sign long term contracts. They have done nothing as a group to earn any trust never mind signing up to 5 year + deals. 3 months is plenty.

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

[/B]This is why we should be very reluctant to sign long term contracts. They have done nothing as a group to earn any trust never mind signing up to 5 year + deals. 3 months is plenty.

I agree that they aren't covering them selves re. milk price this year but I will make my decision on signing contract when I see the document. We have to keep an open mind.

On Timmay's point I don't agree that people are under pressure because of expansion but because of bad planning.
It is a cop out to place the blame at anyone's door other than your own. We need to be mature and take responsibility for our decisions!!

kevthegaff

i agree, some lads are rolling the dice with huge inputs, loans, buildings, rent. There is alot of guys that have expanded from 80 to 120-160 cows around here and i reckon they would be doing better if they had expanded slowly

Timmaay

delaval wrote: »

On Timmay's point I don't agree that people are under pressure because of expansion but because of bad planning.
It is a cop out to place the blame at anyone's door other than your own. We need to be mature and take responsibility for our decisions!!

Most certainly agreed here, profit monitors, cashflow plans and 5year plans etc are all vital parts of any business that expanding and no excuse for not doing them, and having a clearer picture of where your farm is at, and when problems are going to arise.

But anyways, in my case, I am doing out a 5yr plan at the second, by far the biggest variable in any future projections is the milk price. 2cent/litre difference can totally swing figures, and if the likes of Glanbia and the other processors are consistently going to be 2/3cent or more off what is a fair return given the world markets, that will most certainly curtail expansion plans I would have moving forward. I'm fortunate enough to have a good education, and other career opportunities, consolidating what I have now, in the form of 80cows, reduce labour input required, and then work more off the farm might well work out a much better plan moving forward, than to work my arse off expanding, only for Glanbia to massively underpay me. I'll keep plugging away for now, but in my view the ball is in their court, if they want us young "enthusiastic" farmers to provide the expansion in milk moving forward to hit the 2020 targets, pay us a fair price, alternatively, in my case I just might not bother and sit tight where I am at now.

whelan1

i think the biggest thing in any 5 year plan is the weather.....

delaval

whelan1 wrote: »

i think the biggest thing in any 5 year plan is the weather.....

Absolutely not, you can only plan for what you can control weather and milk price are not in our control

delaval

When planning you will end up with 3
Your plan for all going well then your best case plan followed by worst case scenario

whelan1

delaval wrote: »

Absolutely not, you can only plan for what you can control weather and milk price are not in our control

when i look back at my five year plan done 3 years ago, there where alot of assumptions.... is it not better to plan on a yearly basis than a 5 year one?

Viewtodiefor

delaval wrote: »

When planning you will end up with 3
Your plan for all going well then your best case plan followed by worst case scenario

This is sound business planning and most important I think.

delaval

whelan1 wrote: »

when i look back at my five year plan done 3 years ago, there where alot of assumptions.... is it not better to plan on a yearly basis than a 5 year one?

Yes it needs to be adjusted and reviewed regularly. Any business plan has lots of assumptions, but you must start somewhere.
It really is several plans, I set goals and do my plans based on how I'll get there and I revisit it regularly.

I have goals for turnover, profit cow numbers etc. Land purchase would be there but you can't do that if its not for sale or you don't have the profit to do it

kevthegaff

i used to have a 5 yr plan but now i just do 1 yr small steps- Better solids, better herd health, conception rates, Reseeding, Building, Loan reductions. Land Purchase would only come into it if the right plot came up:D

mf240

I make it up as I go along.

mahoney_j

Do my profit monitor yearly,try to get the basics right eg land fertility,animal health,increase solids year on year.one thing I don't do is go mad trying to repay my parlour/cubicle loan quickly.i have 10 years to pay for it and no shorter or longer.also make a point on getting at least 3 quotes for all my big purchases(fertiliser,meal,vaccines).i did a 5 year plan when I took over from my dad 3 years ago and find it irrelevant.had big plans on expansion but now I am only going for moderate expansion an extra 25 cows rather than the 50 plus which would of seen me at a sr of 3.7 constantly on milking block and concentrate on more milk and more solids per cow..I now set realistic targets on 1 jan every year and try to realise them

loveta

mahoney_j wrote: »

Do my profit monitor yearly,try to get the basics right eg land fertility,animal health,increase solids year on year.one thing I don't do is go mad trying to repay my parlour/cubicle loan quickly.i have 10 years to pay for it and no shorter or longer [.also make a point on getting at least 3 quotes for all my big purchases(fertiliser,meal,vaccines)]
.i did a 5 year plan when I took over from my dad 3 years ago and find it irrelevant.had big plans on expansion but now I am only going for moderate expansion an extra 25 cows rather than the 50 plus which would of seen me at a sr of 3.7 constantly on milking block and concentrate on more milk and more solids per cow..I now set realistic targets on 1 jan every year and try to realise them

Any/many of you guys in purchasing groups we set up one four years ago when the thing was on the floor and to this day still cant believe the deals that are to be got if you go about it the right way

roadhouse.

I agree

whelan1

loveta wrote: »

Any/many of you guys in purchasing groups we set up one four years ago when the thing was on the floor and to this day still cant believe the deals that are to be got if you go about it the right way

also can not understand why there are some farmers who refuse to join one and pay top dollar for the exact same feed

kevthegaff

i was gona try to set up one(i have 3-6 farmers), how many would ye need, and would payments need to be upfront?

whelan1

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was gona try to set up one(i have 3-6 farmers), how many would ye need, and would payments need to be upfront?

doesnt matter how many you have, just make sure everyone is a good payer, no space for wasters in a purchasing group

loveta

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was gona try to set up one(i have 3-6 farmers), how many would ye need, and would payments need to be upfront?

Myself and another guy set one up thinking we would have about ten we ended up with 40, payment is they way both partys agree eg up front, one month, two months but price will reflect if there is more credit, "BUT YOU GOTTA STICK TO WHAT IS AGREED" We find now were getting even better deals because we follow up problems and try to keep it tight and company s see/know that.but with all the vetting in the world you WILL have problems with guys.As they say ya need to live or have a financial dealings with someone to know what they are like, but they are worth the work "no matter what the reps will tell ya";)

delaval

loveta wrote: »

Myself and another guy set one up thinking we would have about ten we ended up with 40, payment is they way both partys agree eg up front, one month, two months but price will reflect if there is more credit, "BUT YOU GOTTA STICK TO WHAT IS AGREED" We find now were getting even better deals because we follow up problems and try to keep it tight and company s see/know that.but with all the vetting in the world you WILL have problems with guys.As they say ya need to live or have a financial dealings with someone to know what they are like, but they are worth the work "no matter what the reps will tell ya";)

Do ye do deals for finance, ins, prof fees etc. I recon this is an area where big savings can be made.

loveta

Yes finance (bank) and insurance BIG savings there esp for the honest avg guy, you really gotta ball break and use your clout wisely and let rivals compete with no favoritism to any company only the Euro. Profess fees them to esp accountants.I always drove a hard bargain even before the purchasing group but am still saving several thousands per year by it.

freedominacup

loveta wrote: »

Yes finance (bank) and insurance BIG savings there esp for the honest avg guy, you really gotta ball break and use your clout wisely and let rivals compete with no favoritism to any company only the Euro. Profess fees them to esp accountants.I always drove a hard bargain even before the purchasing group but am still saving several thousands per year by it.

How do ye deal with suppliers trying to tempt bigger members away with sweetheart deals?

milkprofit

Do ye do deals for finance, ins, prof fees etc. I recon this is an area where big savings can be made quot
We buy 80 -90 % trough group
we make good savings on banks insurance vet etc
Confidentiality is a must

milkprofit

freedominacup wrote: »

How do ye deal with suppliers trying to tempt bigger members away with sweetheart deals?

Let them go they will loose out in the long run

Confidentiality and trust is a must

kowtow

delaval wrote: »

Do ye do deals for finance, ins, prof fees etc. I recon this is an area where big savings can be made.

I agree - especially if it can be organised in a fluid way (more buyers can participate).

What people often forget is how much the existence of a buyers group saves the seller or wholesaler - more certainty, much reduced cost of sales.

We used to have some technical models for this kind of thing.

How many dairy farmers (for example) are there in Ireland today?

loveta

freedominacup wrote: »

How do ye deal with suppliers trying to tempt bigger members away with sweetheart deals?

Bigger guys can be problem some but keep getting records of the company s we have dealt with to see who is or is not buying what they are suppose to be and pull them on it, because there are so many deals on the table gaining in one might not out weigh the loss of all the others, small guys seem to be more straight forward but they just dont have the punch of one or two big guys have on the books. TBH you will NEVER get 100% of purchasing through the group but ya gotta be hard on the guys "taking the micheal"

loveta

Back to the topic of the forum.
Lakeland 37 c/lt @3.3pro 3.6fat. As a matter of interest they are 2% under quota.