Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

whelan1 · 15-06-2013 6:23pm

delaval wrote: »

Absolutely not, you can only plan for what you can control weather and milk price are not in our control

when i look back at my five year plan done 3 years ago, there where alot of assumptions.... is it not better to plan on a yearly basis than a 5 year one?

Viewtodiefor · 15-06-2013 6:42pm

delaval wrote: »

When planning you will end up with 3
Your plan for all going well then your best case plan followed by worst case scenario

This is sound business planning and most important I think.

delaval · 15-06-2013 6:57pm

whelan1 wrote: »

when i look back at my five year plan done 3 years ago, there where alot of assumptions.... is it not better to plan on a yearly basis than a 5 year one?

Yes it needs to be adjusted and reviewed regularly. Any business plan has lots of assumptions, but you must start somewhere.
It really is several plans, I set goals and do my plans based on how I'll get there and I revisit it regularly.

I have goals for turnover, profit cow numbers etc. Land purchase would be there but you can't do that if its not for sale or you don't have the profit to do it

kevthegaff · 15-06-2013 8:04pm

i used to have a 5 yr plan but now i just do 1 yr small steps- Better solids, better herd health, conception rates, Reseeding, Building, Loan reductions. Land Purchase would only come into it if the right plot came up:D

mf240 · 15-06-2013 8:34pm

I make it up as I go along.

mahoney_j · 15-06-2013 9:18pm

Do my profit monitor yearly,try to get the basics right eg land fertility,animal health,increase solids year on year.one thing I don't do is go mad trying to repay my parlour/cubicle loan quickly.i have 10 years to pay for it and no shorter or longer.also make a point on getting at least 3 quotes for all my big purchases(fertiliser,meal,vaccines).i did a 5 year plan when I took over from my dad 3 years ago and find it irrelevant.had big plans on expansion but now I am only going for moderate expansion an extra 25 cows rather than the 50 plus which would of seen me at a sr of 3.7 constantly on milking block and concentrate on more milk and more solids per cow..I now set realistic targets on 1 jan every year and try to realise them

loveta · 15-06-2013 10:14pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Do my profit monitor yearly,try to get the basics right eg land fertility,animal health,increase solids year on year.one thing I don't do is go mad trying to repay my parlour/cubicle loan quickly.i have 10 years to pay for it and no shorter or longer [.also make a point on getting at least 3 quotes for all my big purchases(fertiliser,meal,vaccines)]
.i did a 5 year plan when I took over from my dad 3 years ago and find it irrelevant.had big plans on expansion but now I am only going for moderate expansion an extra 25 cows rather than the 50 plus which would of seen me at a sr of 3.7 constantly on milking block and concentrate on more milk and more solids per cow..I now set realistic targets on 1 jan every year and try to realise them

Any/many of you guys in purchasing groups we set up one four years ago when the thing was on the floor and to this day still cant believe the deals that are to be got if you go about it the right way

roadhouse. · 16-06-2013 12:05am

I agree

whelan1 · 16-06-2013 9:11am

loveta wrote: »

Any/many of you guys in purchasing groups we set up one four years ago when the thing was on the floor and to this day still cant believe the deals that are to be got if you go about it the right way

also can not understand why there are some farmers who refuse to join one and pay top dollar for the exact same feed

kevthegaff · 16-06-2013 9:12am

i was gona try to set up one(i have 3-6 farmers), how many would ye need, and would payments need to be upfront?

whelan1 · 16-06-2013 9:14am

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was gona try to set up one(i have 3-6 farmers), how many would ye need, and would payments need to be upfront?

doesnt matter how many you have, just make sure everyone is a good payer, no space for wasters in a purchasing group

loveta · 16-06-2013 11:49am

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was gona try to set up one(i have 3-6 farmers), how many would ye need, and would payments need to be upfront?

Myself and another guy set one up thinking we would have about ten we ended up with 40, payment is they way both partys agree eg up front, one month, two months but price will reflect if there is more credit, "BUT YOU GOTTA STICK TO WHAT IS AGREED" We find now were getting even better deals because we follow up problems and try to keep it tight and company s see/know that.but with all the vetting in the world you WILL have problems with guys.As they say ya need to live or have a financial dealings with someone to know what they are like, but they are worth the work "no matter what the reps will tell ya";)

delaval · 16-06-2013 1:17pm

loveta wrote: »

Myself and another guy set one up thinking we would have about ten we ended up with 40, payment is they way both partys agree eg up front, one month, two months but price will reflect if there is more credit, "BUT YOU GOTTA STICK TO WHAT IS AGREED" We find now were getting even better deals because we follow up problems and try to keep it tight and company s see/know that.but with all the vetting in the world you WILL have problems with guys.As they say ya need to live or have a financial dealings with someone to know what they are like, but they are worth the work "no matter what the reps will tell ya";)

Do ye do deals for finance, ins, prof fees etc. I recon this is an area where big savings can be made.

loveta · 16-06-2013 1:30pm

Yes finance (bank) and insurance BIG savings there esp for the honest avg guy, you really gotta ball break and use your clout wisely and let rivals compete with no favoritism to any company only the Euro. Profess fees them to esp accountants.I always drove a hard bargain even before the purchasing group but am still saving several thousands per year by it.

freedominacup · 16-06-2013 1:50pm

loveta wrote: »

Yes finance (bank) and insurance BIG savings there esp for the honest avg guy, you really gotta ball break and use your clout wisely and let rivals compete with no favoritism to any company only the Euro. Profess fees them to esp accountants.I always drove a hard bargain even before the purchasing group but am still saving several thousands per year by it.

How do ye deal with suppliers trying to tempt bigger members away with sweetheart deals?

milkprofit · 16-06-2013 1:57pm

Do ye do deals for finance, ins, prof fees etc. I recon this is an area where big savings can be made quot
We buy 80 -90 % trough group
we make good savings on banks insurance vet etc
Confidentiality is a must

milkprofit · 16-06-2013 1:59pm

freedominacup wrote: »

How do ye deal with suppliers trying to tempt bigger members away with sweetheart deals?

Let them go they will loose out in the long run

Confidentiality and trust is a must

kowtow · 16-06-2013 2:25pm

delaval wrote: »

Do ye do deals for finance, ins, prof fees etc. I recon this is an area where big savings can be made.

I agree - especially if it can be organised in a fluid way (more buyers can participate).

What people often forget is how much the existence of a buyers group saves the seller or wholesaler - more certainty, much reduced cost of sales.

We used to have some technical models for this kind of thing.

How many dairy farmers (for example) are there in Ireland today?

loveta · 16-06-2013 2:47pm

freedominacup wrote: »

How do ye deal with suppliers trying to tempt bigger members away with sweetheart deals?

Bigger guys can be problem some but keep getting records of the company s we have dealt with to see who is or is not buying what they are suppose to be and pull them on it, because there are so many deals on the table gaining in one might not out weigh the loss of all the others, small guys seem to be more straight forward but they just dont have the punch of one or two big guys have on the books. TBH you will NEVER get 100% of purchasing through the group but ya gotta be hard on the guys "taking the micheal"

loveta · 16-06-2013 2:51pm

Back to the topic of the forum.
Lakeland 37 c/lt @3.3pro 3.6fat. As a matter of interest they are 2% under quota.

kevthegaff · 16-06-2013 3:12pm

im with buyrite, but they dont really deal with fertilliser and meal that much:(

delaval · 16-06-2013 3:18pm

kevthegaff wrote: »

im with buyrite, but they dont really deal with fertilliser and meal that much:(

Must say I left them as I got no saving.

loveta · 16-06-2013 3:19pm

kevthegaff wrote: »

im with buyrite, but they dont really deal with fertilliser and meal that much:(

TBH fert from what i found is as much about timing as about bulk, but prices i seen quoted here earlier in the year were just crazy dear compared to what we got it.I could be wrong on this but from what i can see the further south ya go the more expensive stuff gets esp fert i think the few big boys down there have it wrapped up. NI scares the stuffing out of traders not to be messing with prices along the border.

slippy wicket · 17-06-2013 12:50pm

Glanbia base .37

P 3.48
F 3.56

Gross : 37.21
Net: 36.8

First time ever we are over Glanbia p average at this time of year.

kevthegaff · 18-06-2013 2:38pm

Arrabawn 36.8 c/l protein 3.3 fat 3.5 biggest milk cheque i have ever gotten!! was talking to arra lad said 2% under at end of may should be level by end of june, itchy bum time. Nxt month .7cl off milk cheque for whoever hasnt enough shares, luckily gona transfer majority of mothers share to mine so should avoid this:)

Injuryprone · 18-06-2013 3:00pm

dairygold 37.5 I think

jomoloney · 18-06-2013 3:49pm

Arrabawn,

base 37

B/F 3.82
P 3.32
Price 37.89c/ltr.

first time I was happy with a may cheque in years, supplied a little over 900 ltr per cow for the month and was struggling with solids for a good part thereof

bob charles · 18-06-2013 4:40pm

the day a guy can't do his own business is a sad day. most of the merchants I deal with wont deal with buying groups as its not worth the bother. it unworkable for feeds as no two farms are the same in regards to what spec grub is needed. on products like ferts etc then there maybe room for savings for smaller farmers. people running from post to pillar to save tuppance doesnt make sense to me.

If you have a good relationship with a merchant and live by the terms they will always cut you a good deal or even take you out of a hole when times are tough. Many wouldnt want to forget how helpful allot of merchants were this winter by extending credit to take farmers out of a hole. Race to the bottom at your peril but I prefer to do my business as local as possible and have a loyal relationship with the people I deal with.

delaval · 18-06-2013 7:50pm

bob charles wrote: »

the day a guy can't do his own business is a sad day. most of the merchants I deal with wont deal with buying groups as its not worth the bother. it unworkable for feeds as no two farms are the same in regards to what spec grub is needed. on products like ferts etc then there maybe room for savings for smaller farmers. people running from post to pillar to save tuppance doesnt make sense to me.

If you have a good relationship with a merchant and live by the terms they will always cut you a good deal or even take you out of a hole when times are tough. Many wouldnt want to forget how helpful allot of merchants were this winter by extending credit to take farmers out of a hole. Race to the bottom at your peril but I prefer to do my business as local as possible and have a loyal relationship with the people I deal with.

It breaks my heart Bob but yet again you're on the money.

milkprofit · 18-06-2013 8:14pm

bob charles wrote: »

the day a guy can't do his own business is a sad day. most of the merchants I deal with wont deal with buying groups as its not worth the bother. it unworkable for feeds as no two farms are the same in regards to what spec grub is needed. on products like ferts etc then there maybe room for savings for smaller farmers. people running from post to pillar to save tuppance doesnt make sense to me. 10 -30 % is a lot more than tuppance
not worth the bother means he has to sell to them for less

If you have a good relationship with a merchant and live by the terms they will always cut you a good deal or even take you out of a hole when times are tough. Many wouldnt want to forget how helpful allot of merchants were this winter by extending credit to take farmers out of a hole. Race to the bottom at your peril but I prefer to do my business as local as possible and have a loyal relationship with the people I deal with.

This still all applies to a good group

milkprofit · 18-06-2013 8:19pm

36.88 / lt 3.67 bf--3.21 pr.
Unfortunately some on fixed price@29.49 plus vat 30.9

kowtow · 18-06-2013 8:25pm

bob charles wrote: »

the day a guy can't do his own business is a sad day. most of the merchants I deal with wont deal with buying groups as its not worth the bother.

I couldn't agree more.

Although why farmers should be content to exercise only the purchasing power of a single man (or woman) whilst willingly succumbing, as price taker, to the multitude of buying groups on the sell side remains a bit of a mystery to me.

No doubt enlightenment will come with experience.

loveta · 18-06-2013 9:40pm

bob charles wrote: »

the day a guy can't do his own business is a sad day. most of the merchants I deal with wont deal with buying groups as its not worth the bother. it unworkable for feeds as no two farms are the same in regards to what spec grub is needed. on products like ferts etc then there maybe room for savings for smaller farmers. people running from post to pillar to save tuppance doesnt make sense to me.

If you have a good relationship with a merchant and live by the terms they will always cut you a good deal or even take you out of a hole when times are tough. Many wouldnt want to forget how helpful allot of merchants were this winter by extending credit to take farmers out of a hole. Race to the bottom at your peril but I prefer to do my business as local as possible and have a loyal relationship with the people I deal with.

Yes & No how i would answer to what you saying bob, merchants saying groups are not worth the bother is prob a bit of a porky by them, alot of the time they are just not competitive.When we started up we had long established guys who dealt with the same companys for years and thought they were getting great value for there loyalties but got the mother and father of an eye opener when they seen what they were able to get it else where. As for the credit being extended to guys to get them out of a hole that may be true but to me there is no such thing as a free lunch.On the topic of feed specs being unworkable we have a prob 70/30 dairy/beef farmers and have NEVER had that problem.IMHO the only guys who can partly match prices is say the 250-300 cow man upwards and thats only on inputs there is no way in this day and age they can handle banks insurance companies ect ect to the same extent on there own " but thats just my experience

"

mahoney_j · 18-06-2013 10:03pm

Arrabawn base 37.My price 38.1.Fat 3.74 prot 3.43.Amazing what the extra few cent a litre on may cheque make.On arrabawn quota position i am very optimistic that we will be ok come next april.We are well under quota after the 2 traditional peak months and it will be hard claw it all back.Will keep an eye on it though but personally im going to take a small gamble on it and go beteween 5 to 8 % over

red bull · 18-06-2013 10:47pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Arrabawn base 37.My price 38.1.Fat 3.74 prot 3.43.Amazing what the extra few cent a litre on may cheque make.On arrabawn quota position i am very optimistic that we will be ok come next april.We are well under quota after the 2 traditional peak months and it will be hard claw it all back.Will keep an eye on it though but personally im going to take a small gamble on it and go beteween 5 to 8 % over

Is there temp leasing available in Arrabawn ?

jomoloney · 18-06-2013 11:01pm

red bull wrote: »

Is there temp leasing available in Arrabawn ?

yes

delaval · 18-06-2013 11:12pm

milkprofit wrote: »

This still all applies to a good group

Up to 30% discount on feed and fert????????????????

delaval · 18-06-2013 11:15pm

loveta wrote: »

Yes & No how i would answer to what you saying bob, merchants saying groups are not worth the bother is prob a bit of a porky by them, alot of the time they are just not competitive.When we started up we had long established guys who dealt with the same companys for years and thought they were getting great value for there loyalties but got the mother and father of an eye opener when they seen what they were able to get it else where. As for the credit being extended to guys to get them out of a hole that may be true but to me there is no such thing as a free lunch.On the topic of feed specs being unworkable we have a prob 70/30 dairy/beef farmers and have NEVER had that problem.IMHO the only guys who can partly match prices is say the 250-300 cow man upwards and thats only on inputs there is no way in this day and age they can handle banks insurance companies ect ect to the same extent on there own " but thats just my experience "

I know you would probably be breaking confidence but if you can what margin can you borrow 15 year money at and what rate for overdraft?

bob charles · 18-06-2013 11:39pm

Sir Horace Curzon Plunkett would be proud.

be careful group selling - big brother is watching

delaval · 19-06-2013 7:59am

Glanbia
Base .37/litre
Fat 3.91
Pro 3.48
Nett price 38.08
Really struggled with fat in May. Rarely went over 4. It is consistently above 4 now and pro staying above 3.5 for June so expecting 39-40 for June. Every cent is needed

I recon we are still 2c off market in Glanbia but what's new.
Country 10% under quota with last Dept figures, how reliable are these figures.
Glanbia will exceed quota and we will wait and see what all others will do.
Very early to call quota two peak months gone and they weren't record breakers.

kevthegaff · 19-06-2013 8:21am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Arrabawn base 37.My price 38.1.Fat 3.74 prot 3.43.Amazing what the extra few cent a litre on may cheque make.On arrabawn quota position i am very optimistic that we will be ok come next april.We are well under quota after the 2 traditional peak months and it will be hard claw it all back.Will keep an eye on it though but personally im going to take a small gamble on it and go beteween 5 to 8 % over

Jes i hope your right j, ill be over in August and i do be giving out about my friends gambling:D:D

jomoloney · 19-06-2013 9:54am

delaval wrote: »

Glanbia
Base .37/litre
Fat 3.91
Pro 3.48
Nett price 38.08
Really struggled with fat in May. Rarely went over 4. It is consistently above 4 now and pro staying above 3.5 for June so expecting 39-40 for June. Every cent is needed

mind me asking current yield ?

loveta · 19-06-2013 10:31am

bob charles wrote: »

Sir Horace Curzon Plunkett would be proud.

be careful group selling - big brother is watching

Had to google sir horace there to see who he was "should have listened more at school

" he was some boyo though

delaval · 19-06-2013 11:41am

jomoloney wrote: »

mind me asking current yield ?

24 litres today peaked at 26
10% autumn calving and 30% heifers
2 kg 12% maize based nut

bob charles · 19-06-2013 12:17pm

loveta wrote: »

Had to google sir horace there to see who he was "should have listened more at school " he was some boyo though

his downfall as far as I remember was failing the - thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife commandant

So be careful loveta we dont want history repeating itself.

delaval · 19-06-2013 12:21pm

bob charles wrote: »

his downfall as far as I remember was failing the - thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife commandant

So be careful loveta we dont want history repeating itself.

I think Quadboy is a direct descendant.

linebacker52 · 19-06-2013 1:00pm

delaval wrote: »

Glanbia
Base .37/litre
Fat 3.91
Pro 3.48
Nett price 38.08
Really struggled with fat in May. Rarely went over 4. It is consistently above 4 now and pro staying above 3.5 for June so expecting 39-40 for June. Every cent is needed

I recon we are still 2c off market in Glanbia but what's new.
Country 10% under quota with last Dept figures, how reliable are these figures.
Glanbia will exceed quota and we will wait and see what all others will do.
Very early to call quota two peak months gone and they weren't record breakers.

Does the .37 include vat

jomoloney · 19-06-2013 1:07pm

delaval wrote: »

24 litres today peaked at 26
10% autumn calving and 30% heifers
2 kg 12% maize based nut

28 ltrs per day here all spring calvers about 20 % heifers

presently about 3.8 bf 3.45 p

cows 2 kgs heifers 3 kgs ,, 14 % high maize nut

mostly BR FR with a few MOX and RBX

delaval · 19-06-2013 2:01pm

linebacker52 wrote: »

Does the .37 include vat

.37 inc Vat

milkprofit · 19-06-2013 8:36pm

delaval wrote: »

I know you would probably be breaking confidence but if you can what margin can you borrow 15 year money at and what rate for overdraft?

If i told u rate for overdraft u would not believe me
I would wager 50% less than u
15 yr money dont know

Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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