Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Bla bla bla more of the same nonsense out of you.

Will you for once offer a credible solution to the guys in ybs sculling gate as you so eloquently put it.

One sure thing is I'll spill no milk.

I never said anything about spilling/dumping milk. We are collected everyday here, by not letting them pick up the milk for 3 days they will not have their daily supply . How many farmers would turn out to picket? The usual crap yes I'll be there and on the day only a handful arrive and the lads and lassies in glanbia laugh at the poor turn out. Do a job properly or dont bother

rangler1

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Bla bla bla more of the same nonsense out of you.

Will you for once offer a credible solution to the guys in ybs sculling gate as you so eloquently put it.

One sure thing is I'll spill no milk.

Hope Ed sees now what IFA have had to put up with over the years, a fine example of the sort of helpfull farmers out there that I've been telling you about.

Lack of farmer support is a major contributor to the income problem we now have.
Rant over ....whinge on

rangler1

6270red wrote: »

Remember being at farmers meetings in 09 I think. They had some Offaly TD or someone there and they were planning a blockade of the processors plants. All seemed to be getting a good response.
Talking to lads after the meeting the mood was.. Why would I block the plant sure I've no winter milk!! We were in a mainly Spring calving room.
That'll tell ya how far we will go for each other. Not far. No balls. No leadership.
I think that no one should leave bord bia inspectors inside the gate. If they want quality assured product then they can pay for it first. I won't be renewing here anyway told the milk manager the same yesterday.

I went to the factory with our groups lambs yesterday, 800 lambs, another 400 today, luckily all the lambs were alright as Tesco auditors were there, very simple, they want quality assured, so you can supply it or not, choice is yours, bord bia won't care

Mooooo

Twas farmer ed that mentioned dumping milk. It would only take a comparatively small amount to stop a lorry entering a plant as opposed to needing the majority to stop a tanker coming in to their yard to have the same effect that's the issue with regard to any action. Knowing exactly what ye want out of it in glanbias case as well is important as raising the price for Dec jan won't hit them at all. I assume clarity on fixed price and or getting off the bottom rung of milk price ladder. This is the issue with plc as they grow, it's shareholders on the other side that need to kept happy, profit and growth not suppliers anymore

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

Twas farmer ed that mentioned dumping milk. It would only take a comparatively small amount to stop a lorry entering a plant as opposed to needing the majority to stop a tanker coming in to their yard to have the same effect that's the issue with regard to any action. Knowing exactly what ye want out of it in glanbias case as well is important as raising the price for Dec jan won't hit them at all. I assume clarity on fixed price and or getting off the bottom rung of milk price ladder. This is the issue with plc as they grow, it's shareholders on the other side that need to kept happy, profit and growth not suppliers anymore

Thats just it they have totally forgotten about the farmer, share price and profits and salaries are their number 1 priorities. Also how quickly they decided to refund the fixed price money shows that farmer disgruntlement does work.

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

Thats just it they have totally forgotten about the farmer, share price and profits and salaries are their number 1 priorities. Also how quickly they decided to refund the fixed price money shows that farmer disgruntlement does work.

And it's not just the pics larger co ops are well capable as well. To avoid the risk of offending any Irish co op. Just look at fonterra as the ultimate disaster for farmers

OverRide

whelan2 wrote: »

Thats just it they have totally forgotten about the farmer, share price and profits and salaries are their number 1 priorities. Also how quickly they decided to refund the fixed price money shows that farmer disgruntlement does work.

What? Are Glanbia refunding the fixed price dedication ?

whelan2

OverRide wrote: »

What? Are Glanbia refunding the fixed price dedication ?

not really , text reads as Fixed milk price adjustments deducted from July accounts will be reimbursed immediately. Corrections are now over 12 months.
So they still get the money but not in 1 go

milkprofit

stanflt wrote: »

Is that aimed at me??
Get your due to you figure and add back super levy if applicable and divide by litres to get your milk price- Glanbia statements are hard to read and can be misleading

no not aimed at anyone
Glanbia base 20.86c plus v
21.65 c plus with some fixed f 3.81 pr 3.41
this direct from Statment
some people quoting 2 c top from u own shares as price
Is it not illegal to take deductions from any invoice (any company ) with out proper invoiced detail

OverRide

Well I don't think there's a clause in any of the MSA's stating the milk is the property of the farmer until paid for in full

Mooooo

Farmer Ed wrote: »

whelan2 wrote: »

Thats just it they have totally forgotten about the farmer, share price and profits and salaries are their number 1 priorities. Also how quickly they decided to refund the fixed price money shows that farmer disgruntlement does work.

And it's not just the pics larger co ops are well capable as well. To avoid the risk of offending any Irish co op. Just look at fonterra as the ultimate disaster for farmers

As far as I can see coops profits are reducing whereas plcs are being maintained or increasing

Farmer Ed

milkprofit wrote: »

no not aimed at anyone
Glanbia base 20.86c plus v
21.65 c plus with some fixed f 3.81 pr 3.41
this direct from Statment
some people quoting 2 c top from u own shares as price
Is it not illegal to take deductions from any invoice (any company ) with out proper invoiced detail

The chances are it probably is illegal. But unfortunately as a shareholder in a co op you can not seek the protection of the courts in the same way as a normal citizen can. People can accuse me of nonsense all day but the fact is. Co op law deprives shareholders of the same protection from the law as everyone else. It's the elephant in the room that no one seems to want to address..

Farmer Ed

Mooooo wrote: »

As far as I can see coops profits are reducing whereas plcs are being maintained or increasing

From what I hear a lot of that is down to one of the larger co ops having a huge loss in agri trading this year. Reports of something like only 10% of their stores in profit
.pension fund still doing OK

orm0nd

Keepgrowing wrote: »

We've enough 1916 now for a while
A four hour blockade of trucks getting into the liquid plants around in the second week of December would get their attention and not 1 drop needs to go to slurry pit.
It's brains that's required not brawn

if we had brains we would'nt be milking cows in the first instance :rolleyes:

whelan2

If people are planning on picketing/with holding milk, it might be an idea to discuss/ plan it by pm .

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

If people are planning on picketing/with holding milk, it might be an idea to discuss/ plan it by pm .

The first any of us here should be hearing of this is when we turn on the one o click need some day at dinner time and see a mass picket and trucks backed up at bellview ballyraget etc .the less that know the better beforehand just be ready to jump on at very short notice .a lot of farmers are there own worst enemies and will talk or blurt it out where it shouldn't be if too much notice

boggerman1

I never signed up to these fixed price "scams" tru my co_op(centenary) which ends up in glanbia anyway.have always had the suspicion that it was designed to confuse farmers so that they couldn't tell among themselves what the actual price of milk is.centenary introduced one themselves for the last 6 months of the current yr but its coming from so called profits that they made on share dealings.the kitty is supposed to be over €500,000 but is not open to every milk supplier.u have to be a loyalists to the co_op and buy everything off them.there was a bit of uproar over this and now the deadline to get this has been extended.must have been a slow up take.

Keepgrowing

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Two simple questions? do you still think the Msas were a good idea and do you think they should be extended in to the future?

I didn't sign and as a result I have enjoyed a better price for my milk than people who did.

Call me a fool if it makes you feel better. But I have to agree with you farmers won't spill milk because quite simply we collectively lack backbone and management know it.

Yes
Yes
Notice period needs to be changed
I didn't call you a fool and firmly believe that it's folly to do so.

With all your talk I've yet to read one post that helps people who've signed MSA's and aren't happy change their lot. Coming on here with the same old tripe about how good your new coop is and how wise you were not to sign an MSA is nothing short of "I told you so"

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

The first any of us here should be hearing of this is when we turn on the one o click need some day at dinner time and see a mass picket and trucks backed up at bellview ballyraget etc .the less that know the better beforehand just be ready to jump on at very short notice .a lot of farmers are there own worst enemies and will talk or blurt it out where it shouldn't be if too much notice

Oh so it's only 1 company being picketed. I thought it was going nationwide

freedominacup

I was first to suggest cutting off supply in mid Dec. There's no need for blockades, no need for plackards, no need to dump milk. Did you ever look around a supermarket around the 20th of Dec. There's deliveries every few mins demand for just about everything is through the roof. Milk supplies are tight. Demand for fresh product is high. There's no scope to plan for it. You'd fcuk them just as badly financially to announce you were cutting off supplies and then not carrying it out because they'd have to pay through the nose to get product elsewhere. The real plan is to leave supermarkets short. Just tell the processors no collections for two days. That's all. There's virtually no margin for error that time of year. Most people will be on three day collection at that stage with loads of storage space. No milk for fresh product for two days will cause headaches. It's not May and tanks close to full every two days with all plants flat to the boards. As long as you get a reasonable response from farmers it'll be effective.

alps

Mostly all on the same side here this morning and mostly correct assumptions but we still end in argument. ...its never easy...

What hits companies like glanbia is bad publicity...that's the achilles heel...

While generating "bad publicity" it is imperative that the public are kept on side. You need the public to be with "us" against "them".You can't, under any circumstances effect the public negatively...For sure no empty shelves for Christmas. .

Ed is correct to be fair about farmers willingness yo stand up and fight, but it is a weapon of the past. Today's war is on the public airways, TV cameras, press releases, easily understood arguments. ..and it would tie into a well structured protest at the correct place and at the correct time. I don't know if individual farmers have the knowhow and resources to pull this off...

But you do need a threat....what threat do you issue...its no threat unless you know and can and would implement.

It need not be withdrawl of milk. ....continual bad publicity is the one threat that any organisation finds impossible to defend against....especially when the facts, if they are accurately expressed on this forum are correct...

kowtow

freedominacup wrote: »

I was first to suggest cutting off supply in mid Dec. There's no need for blockades, no need for plackards, no need to dump milk. Did you ever look around a supermarket around the 20th of Dec. There's deliveries every few mins demand for just about everything is through the roof. Milk supplies are tight. Demand for fresh product is high. There's no scope to plan for it.

And penalties for failing to supply supermarkets are high - you are quite right in your choice of date, a lot of bang for a little - relatively easily organised - buck.

alps wrote: »

Mostly all on the same side here this morning and mostly correct assumptions but we still end in argument. ...its never easy...

What hits companies like glanbia is bad publicity...that's the achilles heel...

While generating "bad publicity" it is imperative that the public are kept on side. You need the public to be with "us" against "them".You can't, under any circumstances effect the public negatively...For sure no empty shelves for Christmas. .

Absolutely right - the cows in supermarkets campaign in the UK was a classic case. I'm fairly certain that the cows were there with the supermarkets agreement - little wonder, as those in the UK with supermarket contracts were rarely the victims of low prices (the lowest prices were for marginal milk of the type we export).

In fact the cows in supermarkets stunts in the UK handed a great opportunity to the supermarkets, which they promptly exploited, for "farmer friendly" milk. The circumstances in Ireland are different, of course, such a product would be of little help given the volume of manufacturing milk.

What is needed is a clear goal in any campaign - what do people want? An end to MSA's while a new and transparent structure is created between the co-ops and suppliers?... just banging on the door for a couple of extra cents on the milk price is unlikely to be of much long term benefit, particularly as if prices are rising the processors will simply turn around in public and take credit for the rise.

If it were my battle - and it isn't for obvious reasons - I'd be looking for a comprehensive new set of guidelines between the co-ops and suppliers making clear the duties in both directions.

I'd want an end to the unreasonable and biased MSA's, and - most importantly - ensuring that any fixed price or special contracts and schemes are completely transparent, and (when taken together with MSA's) do not amount to an oppression of a minority of co-op suppliers at the hands of those who take them up. I'd also look for clearer disclosure of the makeup of returns for individual processors on a regular basis so that farmers are able to judge whether a processor is really adding value, and whether what value they add is being transmitted to the farm (as opposed to the farmer shareholder).

It may be that the immediate priority is to tear up all existing MSA's and - by agreement - reinstate them along the lines of a model contract which incorporates the points above.

Ed is right in his assertion that co-op disputes are governed by a rather ancient arbitration provision, but it's quite possible to put binding contractual arrangements in place within the scope of an MSA which work in both directions, instead of just in favour of the co-op.

Perhaps 2017 should be the year when farmers encourage co-ops to sign up to MSA's, rather than vice versa.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Oh so it's only 1 company being picketed. I thought it was going nationwide

Sure we're all a happy bunch here in Arrabawn ,we have left those days of dissapointement and disgruntelnent Behind us thank fook .

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

Sure we're all a happy bunch here in Arrabawn ,we have left those days of dissapointement and disgruntelnent Behind us thank fook .

I was looking forward to a day out in Nenagh

visatorro

This craic of stopping the lorry coming in won't work with paddy, he's too hungry and blind. Besides the supermarkets will just ring northern paddy saying we'd like some milk please. It'll be like the miners strike. They could bring in any amount milk from the UK at the drop of a hat even for the liquid job. And feck the producer. A good company cannot be held to ransom.
Add to this that 'milk' has a longer shelf life you'd have to stop production for a week. Glanbia etc have seen gob****es getting into milk at low prices and people continue to expand at low prices, I don't understand why producers think that we'll get a better price with carry on like this.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I was looking forward to a day out in Nenagh

Sure come down anyway were a nice bunch ,I'll arrange a meeting with Conor if you want 😜😜😜😜😜

Keepgrowing

mahoney_j wrote: »

Sure come down anyway were a nice bunch ,I'll arrange a meeting with Conor if you want 😜😜😜😜😜

That Feckin MSA, won't be able to meet ye

OverRide

I thought farmers still owned the CoOps

Can someone please explain why the owners of CoOp's have to protest outside them to get a fair market price for produce?

Buford T. Justice XIX

New thread starts below...


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057636800