Croke Park deal to fail

MMAGirl

schnitzelEater wrote: »

Completely irrelevant.

We need to reduce the cost of running the PS. End of story. I'm not prepared to pay a higher rate of tax to keep an overpaid PS overpaid.

Rubbish. Me Fein attitude is alive and well I see.

OCorcrainn

It is unbelievable that people in the public service are being scapegoated. Public servants who have been let go cannot even go on the dole. So if you for example got a job as a teacher or nurse at 19 and were laid off a few years later, despite age you still cannot claim it.

MMAGirl

1hottmofo wrote: »

I cant stop laughing at the statement that the PS has taken all the cuts.Tommy Tiernan watch out

Well who else was going to be taking the cuts in CP2?

Must have been you then, because nobody else was getting them but the PS.

Sure myself and everyone I know bar the PS has had raises over the last few years.

Lord TSC

1hottmofo wrote: »

I cant stop laughing at the statement that the PS has taken all the cuts.Tommy Tiernan watch out

Did anyone say they took ALL the cuts? That would be as stupid as someone claiming they take no cuts tbh.

Phill Ewinn

OCorcrainn wrote: »

It is unbelievable that people in the public service are being scapegoated. Public servants who have been let go cannot even go on the dole. So if you for example got a job as a teacher or nurse at 19 and were laid off a few years later, despite age you still cannot claim it.

A huge majority of people voted for austerity. Now austerity is.here they're surprised it should effect them.

Did they vote austerity for everyone but themselves?

cosbloodymick

I work in the public sector and at this stage I would prefer to be made redundant and get statutory redundancy and the dole rather than continue to work for less and less. Unfortunately, unlike the private sector worker that is made redundant, these benefits are not available to me.

SB2013

1hottmofo wrote: »

I cant stop laughing at the statement that the PS has taken all the cuts.Tommy Tiernan watch out

Did you register for the sole purpose of this thread?

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

A huge majority of people voted for austerity. Now austerity is.here they're surprised it should effect them.

Did they vote austerity for everyone but themselves?

I must have missed that vote.

cosbloodymick wrote: »

I work in the public sector and at this stage I would prefer to be made redundant and get statutory redundancy and the dole rather than continue to work for less and less. Unfortunately, unlike the private sector worker that is made redundant, these benefits are not available to me.

You also have to wait 9 weeks to be eligible for the dole.

cosbloodymick

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

A huge majority of people voted for austerity. Now austerity is.here they're surprised it should effect them.

Did they vote austerity for everyone but themselves?

I don't recall austerity being in the election manifesto's of Labour or FG. It was all "Not another red cent to the banks" and "Labours way or Frankfurts way". Look how that worked out

Phill Ewinn

cosbloodymick wrote: »

I don't recall austerity being in the election manifesto's of Labour or FG. It was all "Not another red cent to the banks" and "Labours way or Frankfurts way". Look how that worked out

Noonan told you we would "pay our way " well before the election. FG were pro-austerity for sure. Same as their partners in crime, FF.

Anthony16

Like you,I am really hoping howlin will follow through on his threat of cuts across the board.The worst thing about this rejection is that the pay cuts were only intended for those earning over 65k. The top 10% of all income earners are in this category. High paid public servants still expect the private sector to foot the bill.It has to come to an end. Hopefully now will be the time

Means Of Escape

suicide_circus wrote: »

So PS workers reject the cuts, I would be interested what alternative ways they would suggest to reduce the mammoth PS pay bill? How many future generations are they prepared to beggar?

What a laugh. From my memory the public sector workers were the great unwashed. With the cheap money fired out by the banks every Tom, Dick n Harry was a landscaper,tiler, carpenter etc overnight and enjoyed huge profits. Pmenty of work for immigrants to boot when all was rosy.Then there was undercutting by other tradesmen and that set the ball rolling so when the **** hit the fan and work was hard to come by profits were annihilated .
Again if the disposable income of the PS gets reduced any further there will be more private sector members put out of business and joining the social welfare which is the true burden on the state not the PS salaries that are being trotted out day after day.
On the flip side I do accept that there are senior members in the PS who are paid ridiculous salaries and these need to be addressed. This tit for tat PS vs private sector must delight the Govt and the media is playing its part in fanning the flames.Divide and conquer.
PS lose income private sector suffers .

Lord TSC

Anthony16 wrote: »

Like you,I am really hoping howlin will follow through on his threat of cuts across the board.The worst thing about this rejection is that the pay cuts were only intended for those earning over 65k. The top 10% of all income earners are in this category. High paid public servants still expect the private sector to foot the bill.It has to come to an end. Hopefully now will be the time

You think that everyone is voting no because the only pay cut is for those over 65k, and that's all that was involved?

Anthony16

Self employed cant get the dole if their businesses go bust. Has been the case with many. A pay cut for those earning over 65k is very reasonable imo

OCorcrainn wrote: »

It is unbelievable that people in the public service are being scapegoated. Public servants who have been let go cannot even go on the dole. So if you for example got a job as a teacher or nurse at 19 and were laid off a few years later, despite age you still cannot claim it.

cosbloodymick

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Noonan told you we would "pay our way " well before the election. FG were pro-austerity for sure. Same as their partners in crime, FF.

I have no problem with us paying our way. But we are not only paying our way but the way of banks across the eurozone aswell. If Ireland was not paying 42% of the cost of rescueing Eurozone banks with 1% of the Eurozone population none of this sh!t would be going on.

Anthony16

Sorry i forgot,being asked to work longer hours for the same pay is unthinkable in the public sector:rolleyes:

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You think that everyone is voting no because the only pay cut is for those over 65k, and that's all that was involved?

cosbloodymick

Anthony16 wrote: »

Self employed cant get the dole if their businesses go bust. Has been the case with many. A pay cut for those earning over 65k is very reasonable imo

Very wrong that self employed can't get the dole either, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

cosbloodymick

Anthony16 wrote: »

Sorry i forgot,being asked to work longer hours for the same pay is unthinkable in the public sector:rolleyes:

Should be unthinkable for every worker.

hmmm

Howlin did f all with allowances after his "tough talking", I expect him to do nothing again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the government fall - are FG really going to allow Labour to increase taxes on private sector workers to make up for the shortfall?

Wibbs

highly1111 wrote: »

What the government need to do it cut people - not pay. I have worked in the public sector and I hope to again in the future. The amount of dead wood is the problem. There are many many incompetent people who are incredibly unproductive and who are a drain on resources. There is no initiative or performance or productivity benchmark. Those who work hard do incredible work and deserve every penny they earn. I am happy it has being rejected. My concern is that if the government push through redundancies the best will leave and the dead wood will stay as they know they haven't a hope in hell of getting a job anywhere else. Nothing has infuriated me more than working alongside people who absolutely take the piss at every angle possible whilst I would do anything for a permanent position. There is a huge divide between younger and older workers and all CP2 was going to do was increase that divide.

The issue is the number employed within the PS - not their salaries.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=17940

This, oh god so so much this. I've experience of this dead wood myself, on more than one occasion in the course of my biz and through mates of mates in the PS. Some of the stuff, the truly mindbendingly wasteful gobshíteism I've observed would beggar belief. It really would and yep some of these cross-eyed morons are very well paid

I bolded a part I also agree with. As I said I know quite the number of PS workers in different areas of same and among them, quite the percentage are folks who do incredible work and yes often for pretty crappy pay too. Like you say the salaries IMHO are a red herring and the anti PS people should try and see this. The dead wood is the real problem and judging by what those who do work hard for us and the nation in the PS, they're just as pissed off about it themselves. The problem can be that whistleblowers may feel the "letting the side down" vibe.

EDIT among those I've seen doing great work were teachers. They get way too much stick in this debate IMHO. The admin staff, now that's where the rot tends to be IME.

handlemaster

cosbloodymick wrote: »

I work in the public sector and at this stage I would prefer to be made redundant and get statutory redundancy and the dole rather than continue to work for less and less. Unfortunately, unlike the private sector worker that is made redundant, these benefits are not available to me.

pull the other one

Lord TSC

Anthony16 wrote: »

Sorry i forgot,being asked to work longer hours for the same pay is unthinkable in the public sector:rolleyes:

See, this is the problem. People think the CP2 was only a pay cut for some, and a "few extra hours" for others.

To give the personal example, one of the things was to make sub work completely "voluntary". This is hugely damaging on many levels. For one, it destroys the only work that the vast majority of NQTs are getting at the moment. At the moment, there's a lot of young teachers who rely on sub work. No paid sub work, and there's going to be quite literally no access route into the profession any more. Bye bye all those young teachers with new ideas, fresh talents and abilities. That's not just something that hurts the NQT; it also damages a school which gets no new blood going into it, no new ideas. Young teachers are the ones currently who are doing all they can to impress schools by facilitating a lot of extra learning with students, a lot of extra-curricular activities (not to say older teachers don't, mind). It's also something that NQTs use to make their wages actually liveable on when they do get lucky enough to get consistent hours; without sub work, it won't be viable for a lot of young teachers to accept even the most basic of teaching entry jobs, and they'd have to be lucky to get them to begin with.

So again I say, as a currently unemployed teacher, I'm thrilled this has been voted down. Otherwise, I may as well accept I'm on the dole or moving abroad. So please don't give me the roll-eyes as if you're some super-genius about the CP2 agreement, when it would pretty much devastate the lives of hundreds or young teachers. The idea that it got voted down when it's "only" cuts for people over 65k and a "few extra hours" shows an ignorance on the issue tbf.

Phill Ewinn

None of this will stop that fat sheit and his PA girlfriend from flying round the world willy-nilly. Minister for spending your money and passing stupid laws goes on regardless.

SB2013

Anthony16 wrote: »

Like you,I am really hoping howlin will follow through on his threat of cuts across the board.The worst thing about this rejection is that the pay cuts were only intended for those earning over 65k. The top 10% of all income earners are in this category. High paid public servants still expect the private sector to foot the bill.It has to come to an end. Hopefully now will be the time

You forgot about the cuts in shift allowances by about 30%

cosbloodymick

handlemaster wrote: »

pull the other one

Honestly!

tayto lover

Anthony16 wrote: »

Self employed cant get the dole if their businesses go bust. Has been the case with many. A pay cut for those earning over 65k is very reasonable imo

Not everyone can assess their own tax either.

OCorcrainn

SB2013 wrote: »

You also have to wait 9 weeks to be eligible for the dole.

Did you read my post? Public sector workers, are not eligible AT ALL.

OCorcrainn

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

A huge majority of people voted for austerity. Now austerity is.here they're surprised it should effect them.

Did they vote austerity for everyone but themselves?

I'm sorry when did that vote take place, do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Phill Ewinn

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

See, this is the problem. People think the CP2 was only a pay cut for some, and a "few extra hours" for others.

To give the personal example, one of the things was to make sub work completely "voluntary". This is hugely damaging on many levels. For one, it destroys the only work that the vast majority of NQTs are getting at the moment. At the moment, there's a lot of young teachers who rely on sub work. No paid sub work, and there's going to be quite literally no access route into the profession any more. Bye bye all those young teachers with new ideas, fresh talents and abilities. That's not just something that hurts the NQT; it also damages a school which gets no new blood going into it, no new ideas. Young teachers are the ones currently who are doing all they can to impress schools by facilitating a lot of extra learning with students, a lot of extra-curricular activities (not to say older teachers don't, mind). It's also something that NQTs use to make their wages actually liveable on when they do get lucky enough to get consistent hours; without sub work, it won't be viable for a lot of young teachers to accept even the most basic of teaching entry jobs, and they'd have to be lucky to get them to begin with.

So again I say, as a currently unemployed teacher, I'm thrilled this has been voted down. Otherwise, I may as well accept I'm on the dole or moving abroad. So please don't give me the roll-eyes as if you're some super-genius about the CP2 agreement, when it would pretty much devastate the lives of hundreds or young teachers. The idea that it got voted down when it's "only" cuts for people over 65k and a "few extra hours" shows an ignorance on the issue tbf.

Sounds much like the rest of us who get outsourced, thrown out as soon as moron from jobbridge turns up or subcontracted out of a job.

Phill Ewinn

OCorcrainn wrote: »

I'm sorry when did that vote take place, do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Clearly you don't.

OCorcrainn

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Clearly you don't.

Oh really? How so? Please do tell.