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Opinions on same sex marriage in Ireland

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12357…16

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    #122
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    joe swanson wrote: »
    * 1the formal union of a man and a woman, typically as recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife
    from the oxford dictionary. I have no objections to gay people having full legal rights. But i do not agree with gay marriage in a traditional sense.
    *
    You want things to be tradishinal again?

    Grand, we'll do away with divorce and make women property to be bought again like the good old tradishinal days. Sure there was nothing wrong with it really I suppose.


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    #123
    mrkiscool2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    joe swanson wrote: »
    * 1the formal union of a man and a woman, typically as recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife
    from the oxford dictionary. I have no objections to gay people having full legal rights. But i do not agree with gay marriage in a traditional sense.
    *
    THAT IS THE TRADITIONAL SENSE! Marriage existed long before religion! Marriage is, as was pointed out, a legal thing. Yes, most religions also have marriage but that is only a "religious" part of the marriage. You still have to sign the marriage cert that is LEGALLY BINDING. There is a lot more to marriage than some shi**y religious ceremony. You have no right to deny other rights unless they are infringing upon your own! And gay marriage won't infringe on your rights

    Also, to anyone on here who is sayin "I don't care, I won't vote. I'm in favour of gay marriage though..." Cop the fcuk on!!! Homosexuals deserve equal rights, and we need everyone to go out and vote so we can see how many people agree with it. If we win by less than 15% we leave ourselves open to another referendum instigated by those Iona eejits.


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    #124
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    coolhull wrote: »
    Are we to have the Oxford Dictionary tell us what is or is not marriage?

    no the church does that :P which is the problem.


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    #125
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Sarky wrote: »
    I told you nothing. If you have a reason, an actual reason, beyond "it's my opinion", or "according to [insert authority figure/book here]..." then by all means let's hear it.



    Strong feelings are also a poor basis for taking a position. I'm basing mine on the assumption that everyone's equal. Everyone being equal, they deserve the same rights in the eyes of the law. Gay couples don't get the same rights as straight couples in this country. Therefore they are being treated unequally, and this should be changed.

    You don't seem to be basing your position on anything solid at all. I could be wrong, and I'm happy for you to show that I am, but so far, nothing.



    Not having the same entitlements under law is both different and unequal. Nobody's suggesting that any religion redefine whatever they consider marriage to be. Only the legal one. Catholic priests don't have to, and will never have to marry gay couples. The same way they don't have to marry Muslim or Hindu or Protestant or humanist couples. Those couples are still married in the eyes of the law, regardless of what any Catholic wants to think. Giving same-sex couples the same rights will change absolutely nothing for people who want to think they're not married.

    Your 'different, not unequal' line rang hollow for the organisations that used it as an excuse to marginalise people in the eyes of the law. It rings equally hollow for you.

    This is just a rant. It answers no question and does nothing but slur any kind of point you make. Answer this please. Do you understand that two different relationships are being described on this thread?


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    #126
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    joe swanson wrote: »
    playying devils advocate, marriage is intrinsicallly linked to religion, most of which are not very tolerant, so why want a 'marriage' anyway?
    Not nowadays though - seeing as marriage in a registry office is an option.
    nervous_twitch wrote: »
    I think those are really sh1tty attitudes to have.

    No, it mightn't affect you personally - although I don't even buy that, seeing as politics of equality affect everybody - but there is a large demographic of people in this country being denied the rights that their heterosexual counterparts are afforded. Where's the solidarity? Would you have been arsed supporting the Civil Rights movement? I mean, you're not black after all.

    Any individual bearing witness to injustice in our society has a civil obligation to address it, and all it takes for you to make a whole wealth of people really happy, is to get off your backside and cast a vote. One day, it might be your child/brother/friend being forced to live out there in the margins.
    Ah I do support gay marriage - and would vote for it no question, but in terms of my opinion as to whether it would have an impact on society (which is what I thought the OP was asking) I don't think it would at all, and I wouldn't care if a same-sex couple got married. I was under the mistaken impression that civil partnerships afforded the same rights as marriage anyway, so I didn't realise the full implications.


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    #127
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Dimithy wrote: »
    So you want to force people to buy new dictionaries?
    Yes, I'm in favour of gay people being allowed to marry simply to boost the sales of new dictionaries.

    It would become a legal requirement to buy a dictionary if it were allowed.


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    #128
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    Yes, I'm in favour of gay people being allowed to mary simply to boost the sales of new dictionaries.

    It would become a legal requirement to buy a dictionary if it were allowed.

    Feck you! Knew you'd some agenda to push! :mad: :pac:


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    #129
    Dimithy
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    shopaholic01 wrote: »
    Yes, I'm in favour of gay people being allowed to mary simply to boost the sales of new dictionaries.

    It would become a legal requirement to buy a dictionary if it were allowed.

    I had a feeling the big-dictionary industry was behind this.


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    #130
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    This is just a rant. It answers no question and does nothing but slur any kind of point you make. Answer this please. Do you understand that two different relationships are being described on this thread?

    The only difference between heterosexual couples and homosexual couples is gender. And if you consider all people equal regardless of gender, that difference is irrelevant.

    Still waiting for an actual reason for your disapproval of marriage equality. I do hope you have one. It'd be a terrible shame if you had to admit you didn't. You don't want to be accused of just having a rant, do you?


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    #131
    joe swanson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    Wow, i guess some opinions are more equal than others. I have expressed my opinion, which is far from an extreme one and quickly get shot down. Gonna bow out of this.


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    #132
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Wow, i guess some opinions are more equal than others. I have expressed my opinion, which is far from an extreme one and quickly get shot down. Gonna bow out of this.

    Don't feel too bad. Your opinion just had massive gaping flaws.


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    #133
    mrkiscool2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Wow, i guess some opinions are more equal than others. I have expressed my opinion, which is far from an extreme one and quickly get shot down. Gonna bow out of this.
    You can have an opinion, just like we can have an opinion. However, once you post your opinion we have the right to take that opinion and give our own opinion on your opinion.


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    #134
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Wow, i guess some opinions are more equal than others. I have expressed my opinion, which is far from an extreme one and quickly get shot down. Gonna bow out of this.
    Don't bow out, just give us your own personal definition of marriage and explain why it should just be available to heterosexuals.


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    #135
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Not nowadays though - seeing as marriage in a registry office is an option.

    Ah I do support gay marriage, but in terms of my opinion as to whether it would have an impact on society, I don't think it would at all. I was under the mistaken impression that civil partnerships afforded the same rights as marriage anyway, so I didn't realise the full implications.

    Now that you're aware of the rather large list of differences, would you be convinced to go and vote for it so that gay couples can enjoy the same rights as straight ones?


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    #136
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Wow, i guess some opinions are more equal than others. I have expressed my opinion, which is far from an extreme one and quickly get shot down. Gonna bow out of this.
    You failed to tackle and engage the arguments put towards you. You got shot down because you couldn't do that.


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    #137
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Traditional marriage, oh like it was before 1990 when rape with in marriage was legal?

    And marriage existed before Christianity, and there are religions and even christian denominations which do not object to marriage equality.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw


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    #138
    nervous_twitch
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭nervous_twitch


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Ah I do support gay marriage, but in terms of my opinion as to whether it would have an impact on society, I don't think it would at all. I was under the mistaken impression that civil partnerships afforded the same rights as marriage anyway, so I didn't realise the full implications.

    Apologies if I came across a bit too damning - it's just something that worries me. I'm afraid that when the referendum rolls around, there will be a lot of people like you who support gay marriage in theory, but are too passive to actually contribute to this change. As we know, older people vote in their droves in this country, and I generally think their political/social inclinations are a lot less progressive than younger generations.


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    #139
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    nervous_twitch wrote: »
    I think those are really sh1tty attitudes to have.

    No, it mightn't affect you personally - although I don't even buy that, seeing as politics of equality affect everybody - but there is a large demographic of people in this country being denied the rights that their heterosexual counterparts are afforded. Where's the solidarity? Would you have been arsed supporting the Civil Rights movement? I mean, you're not black after all.

    Any individual bearing witness to injustice in our society has a civil obligation to address it, and all it takes for you to make a whole wealth of people really happy, is to get off your backside and cast a vote. One day, it might be your child/brother/friend being forced to live out there in the margins.

    Indeed. Democracy is built on the idea that we as a society will look to create a fair and just country for everyone to live in. Not voting because an issue doesn't directly affect you is moving us towards the version of democracy that sucks, pure majority rules. You are simply creating a fair and just country for the majority without any concern for minorities who need the majority to help them achieve equality.


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    #140
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Dimithy wrote: »
    I had a feeling the big-dictionary industry was behind this.

    All the time, the dictionary people. Not the big fat racist bigot people that are so demonised on forums like this.

    We may have to rewrite the dictionary and say different now means the same. Chalk is just exactly like cheese and civil rights are not equal to equal rights.


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    #141
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Sarky wrote: »
    Now that you're aware of the rather large list of differences, would you be convinced to go and vote for it so that gay couples can enjoy the same rights as straight ones?
    Er yeh... why ask?


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    #142
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭sniperman


    UNNATURAL,FULL STOP.


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    #143
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    All the time, the dictionary people. Not the big fat racist bigot people that are so demonised on forums like this.

    We may have to rewrite the dictionary and say different now means the same. Chalk is just exactly like cheese and civil rights are not equal to equal rights.

    Now you're just talking crazy.


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    #144
    Dimithy
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    All the time, the dictionary people. Not the big fat racist bigot people that are so demonised on forums like this.

    We may have to rewrite the dictionary and say different now means the same. Chalk is just exactly like cheese and civil rights are not equal to equal rights.

    So its just the use of the word marriage that you have a problem with?


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    #145
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    sniperman wrote: »
    UNNATURAL,FULL STOP.

    Hang up your sniper rifle and off the interwebs with you, mate ;)


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    #146
    joe swanson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    My personal opinion on marriage does not vary from the oxford dictionary. Between a man and a woman. i believe gay people should be entitled to FULL legal rights under civil partnership. Anybody is entitled to disagree with me.
    But i don't thinm i should be piloried for this opinion. Anyway i have to get up ib round 5 hours so goodnight


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    #147
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Not nowadays though - seeing as marriage in a registry office is an option.

    Ah I do support gay marriage, but in terms of my opinion as to whether it would have an impact on society, I don't think it would at all. I was under the mistaken impression that civil partnerships afforded the same rights as marriage anyway, so I didn't realise the full implications.

    http://www.marriagequality.ie/getinformed/missingpieces.html
    On Tuesday, October 4th, 2011, Marriage Equality launched our "Missing Pieces" report, to highlight the differences between civil partnership and civil marriage.

    The report compares the rights and responsibilities gained by same-sex partners who register their relationship under the Civil Partnership Act, with the legislative rights and responsibilities currently available to heterosexual couples, gained through civil marriage.

    Over 160 differences were found between civil partnership and civil marriage, and these were broken down into 7 categories:

    The Family Home
    Finance
    Legal Procedures
    Administration
    Parent and Child
    Immigration
    Equality


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    #148
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    joe swanson wrote: »
    My personal opinion on marriage does not vary from the oxford dictionary. Between a man and a woman. i believe gay people should be entitled to FULL legal rights under civil partnership. Anybody is entitled to disagree with me.
    But i don't thinm i should be piloried for this opinion. Anyway i have to get up ib round 5 hours so goodnight

    Why between a man and a woman though? Procreation? Not all couples want to procreate.

    Seems understandable that people would want to marry out of love for one another. Didn't think there was a difference between gay love and straight love before though.


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    #149
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Er yeh... why ask?

    Because there are plenty of people who are totally fine with marriage equality but don't make their opinion heard. Before you knew the differences, you assumed that it was a good idea but wouldn't go vote for it. If you're in favour of something, you have a duty to use your vote to say so. Otherwise insidious little jackals like Youth Defence or the Iona Institute or the Catholic Church will take your silence as support for them, and your inaction ends up delaying or denying what you were in favour of but weren't motivated enough to vote for.


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    #150
    Petey89
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Petey89


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    All the time, the dictionary people. Not the big fat racist bigot people that are so demonised on forums like this.

    We may have to rewrite the dictionary and say different now means the same. Chalk is just exactly like cheese and civil rights are not equal to equal rights.

    You really are not making any valid arguments against it, EVERYONE should have equal rights weither gay or straight. youe chalk and cheese argument is just ridiculous, A loving relationship is the same as any other loving relationship weither it be a gay or straight relationship. Everyone should have the right to marry the person they love. and be able to call it marriage! because that is exactly what it is!


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    #151
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    joe swanson wrote: »
    Wow, i guess some opinions are more equal than others. I have expressed my opinion, which is far from an extreme one and quickly get shot down. Gonna bow out of this.

    It's rather simple, some opinions are more valid as they are founded on more logical grounds and have stronger arguments behind them. You can have an opinion but if it's irrational, people can point out the issues with the opinion.


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