Makes you proud. Good aul honest Irish Politics.

Iwasfrozen

HoggyRS wrote: »

If Sinn Féin dont want a centrally planned economy, as everyone and their dog knows they don't, then why mention a load of centrally planned economies in your post that was meant to discredit SF's 'socialist' ideas?

Don't worry the question is rhetorical, I know the reason you did it was a cheap point scoring exercise that blew up in your face.

Because SF are socialist. So I pointed out various failed socialist states. Every time socialism has been tried it has been a failure.

TINA1984

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's one of those non answerable question like "do you still beat your wife?" By answering I accept your statement that my criteria is convoluted. Which I don't.

Using your solid criteria, which appears to be placing great weight towards sentences aspirational party documents like party constitutions, we see with both PSF & Labour share similar language vis a vis aspirational socialism.

If we focused on that and that alone, we could makeout that both parties are on some kind of glorious path to socialism.

But real world experience shows both PSF & Lab as being well able to use radical-like rhetoric when in opposition, but very comfy and happy with the general status quo snd associated trappings when in power. So I don't buy anyone telling me Mary Lou & the lads are actually waiting with their little red books to kim-il jong our arses when they get into power.

So why you making out PSF are the devil incarnate when the Labour party have equally as colourful a history as PSF? As do pretty much every other political party in the Oireachtas if you care to look back far enough into our state's murky history.

They're all the same doesn't just apply to politicians, it applies to the parties too.

Czarcasm

fishy fishy wrote: »

don't give up the day job - you let yourself down with this post - this post highlights that you no idea what the reality is. :rolleyes:

Really? You think at some stage Sinn Féin will get into government and you think I'M the deluded one? I suppose whatever works for your altered perception of reality, keeping those romanticised notions of an imaginary struggle against oppression alive and keep feeding the bitterness while the rest of the world has moved on already.

HoggyRS wrote: »

Cool story bro. No evidence whatsoever but at least you treated us to some bizarre ramblings.

If I didn't know better I'd suggest you were Noddy's alt account, because that's exactly the type of rebuttal they give in a discussion when they're not making snipey smartàrse comments and being purposely obtuse.

What if I was to claim Fine Gael round up those dang foreigners for the day and bus then into polling stations for votes. I claim this is now true without any evidence, you my friend are forced by your own logic to accept it.

Well I never said other parties aren't doing the very same thing either now, did I? Although I've only seen other parties and independents do the supplementary electoral register tactic for local council elections. It's actually put a few long standing local officials noses out of joint.

You want an even cooler story bro? My child has been registered on the electoral register since he was two years of age, gets his polling card every time there's an election and his voting card every time there's a referendum. Always a source of amusement seeing as he's still only eight years of age!

Nodin

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ohh you guys, ............ foreign nationals who couldn't give a tinkers fcuk one way or the other.

You still haven't explained what you meant in the first place. Secondly only citizens can vote in General elections so your use of the term "foreign nationals" has a tint of xenophobia to it.

Czarcasm wrote:

One of the reasons I refuse to engage with certain posters is because they need statistics for this and links for that and all sorts of nonsense.

Jaysus...some swine just won't settle for bizarre anecdotes. Fact-perverts I call them.

OCorcrainn

Spook_ie wrote: »

Would seem they were...



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sniper-badges-and-thatcher-tshirts-on-sale-29195865.html

So the TF Royal Hotel in Castlebar has a Sinn Féin shop? I suppose you will be telling me next that all the Jury's Inn hotels have them too?

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

You still haven't explained what you meant in the first place. Secondly only citizens can vote in General elections so your use of the term "foreign nationals" has a tint of xenophobia to it.

Ahem.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ahem.

Don't start that inane shite again Fred. It's about the same level as calling the left wing nazis.

Czarcasm

Ohh fine, here goes, but only because you made me laugh by implying I was somehow xenophobic! :pac:

Nodin wrote: »

You still haven't explained what you meant in the first place.

Sinn Féin god knows they need the numbers, so because they know well they're about as welcome on most Irish people's doorsteps as a Jehovahs Witness, they target areas of Immigrant populations who have no clue of their history, but know only too well of the history of the economy in the last few years, so are only too desperate willing to vote for Sinn Féin in what they see as the only alternative, a bit like TK earlier on, who couldn't fathom the idea of anyone abstaining from elections as an alternative.

Secondly only citizens can vote in General elections so your use of the term "foreign nationals" has a tint of xenophobia to it.

You may want to revise that statement to include British citizens, much as that might stick in your craw-

Who can vote in elections and referenda?

The type of election you can vote in depends on your citizenship.The following people are eligible to vote:

• Irish citizens can vote in every election and referendum
• British citizens may vote at Dáil, European and local elections
• Other EU citizens may vote at European and local elections
• Non-EU citizens can vote at local elections only.

And just so we're all clear on what the definition of xenophobia ACTUALLY is-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

Xenophobia is an irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner," and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."

Sounds more like your typical "Brits out!" Sinn Féin supporter to me!


Xenophobia... LOL, man Noddy! :pac:

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Don't start that inane shite again Fred. It's about the same level as calling the left wing nazis.

Wow Nodin, time of the month is it or has the uplink to the collective let you down again?

Just trying to subtly point out that you dont have to be a citizen to vote in general elections. Obviously to subtle for you.

Heaven forbid someone point out you are wrong, again.

Anynama141

Prodigious wrote: »

No, it's completely and utterly different to selling KKK shirts.

Because one group used violence to achieve its aims, and...so did the other one?

Nodin

Czarcasm wrote: »

...........................................
Sinn Féin god knows they need the numbers, so because they know well they're about as welcome on most Irish people's doorsteps as a Jehovahs Witness, they target areas of Immigrant populations who have no clue of their history, but know only too well of the history of the economy in the last few years, so are only too desperate willing to vote for Sinn Féin in what they see as the only alternative, a bit like TK earlier on, who couldn't fathom the idea of anyone abstaining from elections as an alternative.

So Sinn Fein round up these poor 'foolish' "foreign" folk who are either Irish or British citizens....according to you at least.

Dear o dear. You've proof of this I trust?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Wow Nodin, ........g, again.

Yes it appears that both Irish and British citizens can vote in Dail elections.....Do you think yer man men British people when he said "foreign nationals"? I think not.

My name is URL

Czarcasm wrote: »

You may want to revise that statement to include British citizens, much as that might stick in your craw

You're really making yourself look a bit dense here.

So now, all of a sudden; by saying foreign nationals you actually meant British citizens? Jaysus, that must have taken some amount of persuasion by whoever was operating the shinner-buses. I suppose next you'll be claiming they were forced onto these imagined vehicles, polling cards in one hand and a glass of Pimm's in the other.

Just retract the claim, or at least give up on it while you're not too far behind.. it's obviously based purely on fantasy. Are folk running out of fair criticism of SF and resorting to dreamed up conspiracy theories and plainly obvious lies?

Anynama141

My name is URL wrote: »

Just retract the claim.. it's obviously based purely on fantasy. Are folk running out of fair criticism of SF and resorting to dreamed up conspiracy theories and plainly obvious lies?

Fair point. Sinn Fein members buying memorabilia that celebrates cowardly murders is enough to be going on for one thread.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Yes it appears that both Irish and British citizens can vote in Dail elections.....Do you think yer man men British people when he said "foreign nationals"? I think not.

Who knows, after all, republicans are not anti British are they ;-)

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Who knows, after all, republicans are not anti British are they ;-)

You know exactly what I'm getting at.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

You know exactly what I'm getting at.

Yes I do, it does seem a bit far fetched.

flutered

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We need to start taking them seriously. They seem to be the only party at the moment providing an alternative to the FF/FG/Labour policies. As people get more and more disillusioned they will turn to SF (frightening as that is).

actually the present goverment is considering using part of s.f.s election manifesto, there is quite a long thread about this over on politics.ie.

Anynama141

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We need to start taking them seriously. They seem to be the only party at the moment providing an alternative to the FF/FG/Labour policies. As people get more and more disillusioned they will turn to SF (frightening as that is).

I think a term in government for SF would quickly dispel any remaining notion that we can vote our way out of Fianna Failure's financial disaster.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

Yes it appears that both Irish and British citizens can vote in Dail elections.....Do you think yer man men British people when he said "foreign nationals"? I think not.

Wait, what? British citizens can vote in our elections? Why?

Anynama141

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Wait, what? British citizens can vote in our elections? Why?

Why can Irish people vote in British elections? Reciprocal arrangement.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Wait, what? British citizens can vote in our elections? Why?

Presumably because we can vote in theirs. I knew they could vote in European and local.

My name is URL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Wait, what? British citizens can vote in our elections? Why?

This was to reciprocate the Ireland Act 1949, which had granted Irish citizens resident in the UK the right to vote in elections to the British parliament after the Irish Government had, by leaving the Commonwealth and enacting the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 removed such rights in existing British law from Irish citizens in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Czarcasm

Nodin wrote: »

So Sinn Fein round up these poor 'foolish' "foreign" folk who are either Irish or British citizens....according to you at least.

Dear o dear. You've proof of this I trust?

I never used these words, that was your own extrapolation. As for proof- again, more than welcome to come and visit. Anyone that can make me laugh like you do Noddy deserves a repreive in my book, that's more than Sinn Féin will ever get from the Irish public.

Nodin wrote: »

Yes it appears that both Irish and British citizens can vote in Dail elections.....Do you think yer man men British people when he said "foreign nationals"? I think not.

Well you seem to have trouble understanding anything that doesn't jig with your world view, so god only knows what you thought, I thought the mentally deficient act was just a put on to excuse you being so obtuse, seems I may indeed have been wrong about one thing at least.

My name is URL wrote: »

You're really making yourself look a bit dense here.

You could be right, there's a saying about arguing with fools.

So now, all of a sudden; by saying foreign nationals you actually meant British citizens? Jaysus, that must have taken some amount of persuasion by whoever was operating the shinner-buses. I suppose next you'll be claiming they were forced onto these imagined vehicles, polling cards in one hand and a glass of Pimm's in the other.

Sinn Féin's are well known for their legendary powers of "persuasion by force", nothing would surprise me how low they'd stoop to get into government.

Just retract the claim, or at least give up on it while you're not too far behind.. it's obviously based purely on fantasy. Are folk running out of fair criticism of SF and resorting to dreamed up conspiracy theories and plainly obvious lies?

I won't be retracting any claim, but it's interesting to hear a Sinn Féin supporter telling someone else to give up on a notion entrenched in fantasy, conspiracy theories and plainly obvious lies.

nua domhan

schnitzelEater wrote: »

You missed the point (again). I'm chastising them because they don't have policies. Amazing that something so simple is beyond you.

S**t load of them right here.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/policies

You may remember one distinct one in which they have been calling for legislation on the X case for over a year now before the bandwagon jumpers of Labour et al after the Praveen case.

Nodin

Czarcasm wrote: »

I never used these words, that was your own extrapolation. As for proof- again, more than welcome to come and visit. Anyone that can make me laugh like you do Noddy deserves a repreive in my book, that's more than Sinn Féin will ever get from the Irish public.

.

The gist of what you stated was that Sinn Fein provide a minibus to a group of people who would not be entitled to vote to bring them to polling stations. You further intimated these people were uniformed on irish political matters, and that this is why they were selected. It makes no sense. You've offered no proof that this unlikely event took place.

My name is URL

Czarcasm wrote: »

I won't be retracting any claim, but it's interesting to hear a Sinn Féin supporter telling someone else to give up on a notion entrenched in fantasy, conspiracy theories and plainly obvious lies.

I've never voted for Sinn Fein outside of a couple of local elections before in my life. I also voted for McGuinness in the presidential election though.

I'm usually, or at least was until recently, a Labour supporter when it comes to national politics. Don't really have a preference for any party right now.

Just because I take issue with the hysterics and pigeonholing by the most vocally opposed to SF, doesn't mean I'm a supporter of theirs. No more than me taking issue with bilious personal attacks on FF members would make me a FF supporter.

Czarcasm

Nodin wrote: »

The gist of what you stated was that Sinn Fein provide a minibus to a group of people who would not be entitled to vote to bring them to polling stations. You further intimated these people were uniformed on irish political matters, and that this is why they were selected. It makes no sense. You've offered no proof that this unlikely event took place.

I've invited you to come visit me on more than one occasion to see these things for yourself. I cannot offer you the proof you seek because there are many things that happen in the world that go undocumented.

Czarcasm

My name is URL wrote: »

I've never voted for Sinn Fein outside of a couple of local elections before in my life. I also voted for McGuinness in the presidential election though.

So you've supported Sinn Féin by voting for them, but you're not a Sinn Féin supporter? Ok then.

My name is URL

Czarcasm wrote: »

So you've supported Sinn Féin by voting for them, but you're not a Sinn Féin supporter? Ok then.

No, not really. I voted for the individual in those cases, not the party or it's policies / goals, but because the individual was head and shoulders above his opponents in terms of intellect, drive and competence for the job at hand.

If I were to vote tomorrow for a party to lead Ireland, SF would have about as much chance of my support as any of the other main parties. That hardly suggests I'm a 'supporter'... not in the way you're inferring at least. It's hardly rocket-science.. but I get the impression that you have a picture in your head of anyone who has ever voted for Sinn Fein or any of its members.