No more SW communion/confirmation payments

April O Neill

McLoughlin wrote: »

Now make it compulsory to make it in school uniforms.

Glad the payment was scrapped but NO NO NO to this! I thoroughly enjoyed my princess day, and got it out of my system at age 7. (in a hand-me-down dress) :pac:

Czarcasm

Paddy this is such a misinformed post I'm surprised nobody else pulled you up on it.

paddy147 wrote: »

So 20-30 odd billion euro back in the state instead of going to a bunch of bondholders wouldnt improve anything then??

No, because they'd pìss it away down the drain like all the rest of the EU infrastructure grants they were given over the last 20 years. Like many of the children soon to be making their holy communion, politicians seem to have no clue about the value of money and how to save or spend it wisely.

It wouldnt ease up anything domesticly no??

It'd cover the cost of fixing a few roads, after that the rest would get pìssed down the drain.

No one is safe in this country any more.

Personal responsibility goes a long way towards minimizing risk to one's financial security (which is I presume what we're talking about here when you mean "safe").

Innocent kids looking forward to making their communion are being affected.

No, innocent kids are not being affected by the government being told to become financially responsible. The government is being affected, and parents who failed to understand financial and personal responsibility are being affected. The children are only affected by the decisions of the parents.

People with dissabilites are savaged and grants taken from them.

The whole area of healthcare and support for people with disabilities is a mess, and has been for some time, even during the celtic tiger years when it was thought throwing more and more money at the numerous problems would solve them. Now the money isn't there any more to disguise the problems. That's a whole multitude of threads on it's own.

Single parents get hammered.

Some single parents can manage personal and financial responsibility, some single parents can not. But this does not mean that they can not be taught to manage their personal and financial responsibilities.

Self employed people who bust their balls to make a living and then sadly have to fold due to lack of business are basicly told to fcuk off.

No they are not Paddy. They are entitled to state support-

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/self_employed_and_unemployment.html

Stop perpetuating that myth.

SMEs going under every day and no other jobs to be had for these people.

Well now that's not true. There are plenty of jobs to be had, just not plenty of people willing to do them.

Soup Kitchens have to be opened up because of all this austerity.

Better sit down for this one Paddy-

Soup kitchens have existed in Ireland since the Great Famine over 150 years ago!

Live register going up and predicted to go over 15% next year.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't double that figure myself tbh. In my opinion we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg at the moment.

But hey.lets keep paying the germans and give them their billions of euro every few months.

You borrow, you pay back. That's not even economics, that's just basic math.

Thats the way Enda,good man indeed.Pander to everyone else and just keep on fcuking your own people over..time and time again.Good man indeed.

I have no time whatsoever for politics, even less time for politicians, but on this one I'm afraid Enda has about as much say or influence as he does in whether or not a person qualifies for a mortgage.

rolliepoley

WileyCoyote wrote: »

About time, the state should not be subsidizing religion.

But it was ok to turn a blind eye to its seedy going ons.:rolleyes:

Marymoll

Had to add my own comment after reading all the tread.

I have an 8 yr old girl making her communion in a few weeks

18 months ago i lost my job,4 months after that, so did my hubby, he got a part time job last summer (and still there ) but we knew we were now counting every single penny & onto an even tighter budget,so in sept, i put her dress away (got it in sale from the previous years stock) dress + shoes = €120, deposit of €10 that day and every children's allowance i paid €20. dress now paid for, veil + bag + cardigan borrowed from my sis , €80 for a bouncy castle ( payed the man €30 deposit, rest on day ) and BBQ for our family members( 20ppl) in the evening. We wont be supplying drinks, my brother will take a family pic, i'll do my child's hair. I have a dress borrowed off my sister, the hubby wearing ( as he calls em) his christmas clothes, and my youngest is wearing a dress my mother picked up in penneys (€11) . We just can not afford the frills and to keep up with the ''Jone's'' . My daughter has her dress, and will still enjoy her day
Hearing other mothers talking at the school, i'm shocked. they have hairdressers coming to the house,kids are getting the nails done, so and so's dress cost €900+ , they even told me they paid extra money so their child is the only child with that dress in the whole school !!! hotels booked for sit down meals, D.J's playing and kids entertainers, all booked !! madness. I have to hold my tongue as i would love to know how they can afford this as i know a lot of them dont work either.
About 3 years ago, we heard the robes where being brought in, sadly this hasnt happened yet, but her dress will be put away when shes finished with it, and her younger sister will be wearing it in 3 years time whether i'm back working or not.

lennyloulou

well done Marymoll- u are a practical, caring and good mother who is grounded and I know your children will be brought up appreciating what they are given and what they earn in life. u truly deserve a big hug! Even though ye are finding it tough moneywise you have your head screwed on. Best of luck.

Marymoll

lennyloulou wrote: »

well done Marymoll- u are a practical, caring and good mother who is grounded and I know your children will be brought up appreciating what they are given and what they earn in life. u truly deserve a big hug! Even though ye are finding it tough moneywise you have your head screwed on. Best of luck.

Thanks Lennyloulou, am just bringing my 2 up the same as my own parents brought up 8 of us in the 80's But even still, when we both worked full time, money was still always in one hand and out the other with bills, mortgage and the essentials to live, kids wont miss what they never had Thankfully i have a big family, so clothes are handed down and gratefully appreciated and i pass them onto my younger nieces, this has always been the case. You cant spend what you dont have

nozzferrahhtoo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We're not talking a definition here. I never definied anything

Oh but you did. Maybe unintentionally but you did. You said this:

"a" religion is a bit different from a hobby in that the reasons for participating in a hobby are different to those for participating in a religion

That for me is a definition. You defined a difference between the two.

It was the basis for the differentiation I was commenting on. That basis, if applied without equivocation, would leave pretty much nothing meeting the definition of "hobby".

Gatling

Marymoll wrote: »

Had to add my own comment after reading all the tread.

I have an 8 yr old girl making her communion in a few weeks

18 months ago i lost my job,4 months after that, so did my hubby, he got a part time job last summer (and still there ) but we knew we were now counting every single penny & onto an even tighter budget,so in sept, i put her dress away (got it in sale from the previous years stock) dress + shoes = €120, deposit of €10 that day and every children's allowance i paid €20. dress now paid for, veil + bag + cardigan borrowed from my sis , €80 for a bouncy castle ( payed the man €30 deposit, rest on day ) and BBQ for our family members( 20ppl) in the evening. We wont be supplying drinks, my brother will take a family pic, i'll do my child's hair. I have a dress borrowed off my sister, the hubby wearing ( as he calls em) his christmas clothes, and my youngest is wearing a dress my mother picked up in penneys (€11) . We just can not afford the frills and to keep up with the ''Jone's'' . My daughter has her dress, and will still enjoy her day
Hearing other mothers talking at the school, i'm shocked. they have hairdressers coming to the house,kids are getting the nails done, so and so's dress cost €900+ , they even told me they paid extra money so their child is the only child with that dress in the whole school !!! hotels booked for sit down meals, D.J's playing and kids entertainers, all booked !! madness. I have to hold my tongue as i would love to know how they can afford this as i know a lot of them dont work either.
About 3 years ago, we heard the robes where being brought in, sadly this hasnt happened yet, but her dress will be put away when shes finished with it, and her younger sister will be wearing it in 3 years time whether i'm back working or not.

I've so much respect for fellow parents's especially Marymoll above ,

Hope you all have a good day Mary

Electric Sheep

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I would see that as different, funerals cost a fortune even on the cheap! And we all die, that is something that we have to accept that. And we have to have something resembling a funeral. A grave can cost anything from 350-1500 pending where you live, then casket, headstone. Not sure what a cremation costs! Communions and Confirmations are elective ceremonies.

So is a funeral, actually.

Zebra3

Electric Sheep wrote: »

So is a funeral, actually.

Yep, get cremated.

Graveyards are a waste of land.

DebDynamite

April O Neill wrote: »

Glad the payment was scrapped but NO NO NO to this! I thoroughly enjoyed my princess day, and got it out of my system at age 7. (in a hand-me-down dress) :pac:

Me too April My mother mother revealed my dress one day and I was delighted, it was white and frilly! Didn't even know my neighbour had already worn it 2 years previously.

It's nice to give girls the opportunity to get dressed up in a nice dress, so I wouldn't like to change that, but some of the money spend on them is crazy. It's possible to get a dress for very little money, or in our case, free

mfceiling

paddy147 wrote: »

Well in some cases (Credit Union and SVP case studies)...YES-starving and NO-none or hardly any heat leccy,schoolbooks...due to lack of money at the end of each week.

110-120 euro is not a huge amount of money (well it is to alot of people nowadays) and will get you the entire kit in quite a good few of the communion shops.

Im not talking about paying hundreads of euros out on a white dress.I never once mentioned that at all

So why are you painting every family and child in Ireland wth the 1 brush?????:(

What is this mythical "entire kit"? As other posters have stated here it is a free service that you can do in your regular clothes or school uniform. Then go home after it and have your dinner - why would you need the state to provide you with a grant for that?

wolfpawnat

Electric Sheep wrote: »

So is a funeral, actually.

You have to dispose (for lack of a better word) of remains. Not everyone can be medical specimens. A religious funeral is elective, but bodies cannot be just left in mortuaries. But a burials/cremations are essential.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yep, get cremated.

Graveyards are a waste of land.

Often nowadays it is land in the middle of no where and out of the way. Not everyone wants to be cremated, and as long as the option is there for people to be buried, which may one day be taken away, they have the right to be. That is something that should be respected.

April O Neill

DebDynamite wrote: »

Me too April My mother mother revealed my dress one day and I was delighted, it was white and frilly! Didn't even know my neighbour had already worn it 2 years previously.

It's nice to give girls the opportunity to get dressed up in a nice dress, so I wouldn't like to change that, but some of the money spend on them is crazy. It's possible to get a dress for very little money, or in our case, free

Yeah, I don't think people should begrudge little girls their princess day. It's something many of us grow out of anyway. For example, a big white wedding would be my idea of a nightmare.

But a little girl's princess day doesn't have to involve loads of money. Hand-me-down dress, or a dress from a department store and hand-me-down accessories.

El Inho

Marymoll wrote: »

Had to add my own comment after reading all the tread.

I have an 8 yr old girl making her communion in a few weeks

18 months ago i lost my job,4 months after that, so did my hubby, he got a part time job last summer (and still there ) but we knew we were now counting every single penny & onto an even tighter budget,so in sept, i put her dress away (got it in sale from the previous years stock) dress + shoes = €120, deposit of €10 that day and every children's allowance i paid €20. dress now paid for, veil + bag + cardigan borrowed from my sis , €80 for a bouncy castle ( payed the man €30 deposit, rest on day ) and BBQ for our family members( 20ppl) in the evening. We wont be supplying drinks, my brother will take a family pic, i'll do my child's hair. I have a dress borrowed off my sister, the hubby wearing ( as he calls em) his christmas clothes, and my youngest is wearing a dress my mother picked up in penneys (€11) . We just can not afford the frills and to keep up with the ''Jone's'' . My daughter has her dress, and will still enjoy her day
Hearing other mothers talking at the school, i'm shocked. they have hairdressers coming to the house,kids are getting the nails done, so and so's dress cost €900+ , they even told me they paid extra money so their child is the only child with that dress in the whole school !!! hotels booked for sit down meals, D.J's playing and kids entertainers, all booked !! madness. I have to hold my tongue as i would love to know how they can afford this as i know a lot of them dont work either.
About 3 years ago, we heard the robes where being brought in, sadly this hasnt happened yet, but her dress will be put away when shes finished with it, and her younger sister will be wearing it in 3 years time whether i'm back working or not.

fantastic post. brilliant to hear. The robes would actually be a fantastic idea, thus bypassing the expenses and the keeping up with the jones'...people laugh at my big fat gypsie wedding but then they do it themselves!!!

but again fantastic post, and you are actually someone I would champion to Ireland right now. It's tough going, but you kept the head down and battled on and did it. You are the one of the best people I've heard in recent weeks!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Oh but you did. Maybe unintentionally but you did. You said this:

"a" religion is a bit different from a hobby in that the reasons for participating in a hobby are different to those for participating in a religion

That for me is a definition. You defined a difference between the two.

Yes. I defined a difference between the two. One difference. One aspect. That is all. It most certainly is NOT the same thing as defining what the word actualy means!

If you look up "hobby" in a dictionary, it says a bit more than "not a religion".

nozzferrahhtoo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Yes. I defined a difference between the two. One difference. One aspect. That is all. It most certainly is NOT the same thing as defining what the word actualy means!

The point I am making still appears not to be sinking in. I can but repeat it in simpler terms in the hope it might this time.

If you are excluding "religion" from the definition of "hobby" by some criteria X then you do not get to apply X when you like and reserve it when you do not. That criteria has to be applied to the entire set "hobby".

The criteria X you have chosen if applied to "hobby" as a whole would leave nothing being a hobby. Not just religion. Hence the distinction you have made is of no use at all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

The point I am making still appears not to be sinking in. I can but repeat it in simpler terms in the hope it might this time.

If you are excluding "religion" from the definition of "hobby" by some criteria X then you do not get to apply X when you like and reserve it when you do not. That criteria has to be applied to the entire set "hobby".

The criteria X you have chosen if applied to "hobby" as a whole would leave nothing being a hobby. Not just religion. Hence the distinction you have made is of no use at all.

Where, exactly, did I state a "criteria x"?

I never put forward a rule, I highlighed a difference - the difference to those who participate. A hobby is partaken in for pleasure or relaxation, a religion is partaken in (theoretically) because of a set of beliefs. Again, I did not define what the words actually meant. This is not a criterion - there is no rule or standard invovled that can be applied.

nozzferrahhtoo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Where, exactly, did I state a "criteria x"?

The criteria "X" you put forward in this case I have already reminded you of once in post #218. If I have to keep reminding your of your own words in every reply then this could get very long and difficult.

Again:

You were moderating whether "religion" would fit into the set "hobby" based on the criteria that the motivations for participating might differ.

I pointed out that the motivations for engaging in _any_ hobby different from person-to-person and hobby-to-hobby. Therefore making the distinction on THAT basis is useless.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

The criteria "X" you put forward in this case I have already reminded you of once in post #218. If I have to keep reminding your of your own words in every reply then this could get very long and difficult.

I did suspect it was that but your argument doesn;t make sense if it wsa, hence my request for clarification.

I pointed out that the motivations for engaging in _any_ hobby different from person-to-person and hobby-to-hobby. Therefore making the distinction on THAT basis is useless.

No they aren't. A person picks up a hobby because he finds it interesting and stimulating. The specifics may differ, but that constant remains the same.

A person adheres to a religion because of a feeling of worship and a belief in a set of practices.

While you could apply the first one to a religion, you can not apply the second one to the first. It's not a rule or a hard criterion, it's simply a distinction.

To give you a specific example: a person can become a catholic because they find it stimulating, but no one takes up fishing just because they see it is an act of worship or a belief.

nozzferrahhtoo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I did suspect it was that but your argument doesn;t make sense if it wsa, hence my request for clarification.

Thankfully you not understanding it does not automatically mean it does not make sense. These are two different things entirely.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

No they aren't. A person picks up a hobby because he finds it interesting and stimulating. The specifics may differ, but that constant remains the same.

Speak for yourself. That might be YOUR motivation. The motivations for choosing or partaking in any hobby differ massively across people however. For example (1 of a long long list) some people might take one up because although they are not interested in it, they wish to avail of some benefit of it. For example a doctor who suggests a patient take up painting in order to relax them. Or someone with no interest in Dance who joins a salsa class to meet women.

So by your criteria this would not be a "hobby" because the motivation for engaging in it does not fit YOUR preconceptions about what peoples motivations should be.

donegal_road

A family member of mine has been raising funds for less well off people in an Eastern European country which I wont name, for many years now.

10 years ago, one particular family in that country were given €2000 to put a new roof on their house. This family had a very good looking daughter, about 21 years old. They spent the money on her wedding instead of putting the roof over their heads.

Some of the stories in this thread remind me of this incident.

Hoop66

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Thankfully you not understanding it does not automatically mean it does not make sense. These are two different things entirely.



Speak for yourself. That might be YOUR motivation. The motivations for choosing or partaking in any hobby differ massively across people however. For example (1 of a long long list) some people might take one up because although they are not interested in it, they wish to avail of some benefit of it. For example a doctor who suggests a patient take up painting in order to relax them. Or someone with no interest in Dance who joins a salsa class to meet women.

So by your criteria this would not be a "hobby" because the motivation for engaging in it does not fit YOUR preconceptions about what peoples motivations should be.

Exactly. Some people may have been told by their doctor to be a pedant on the internet, and not just doing it for fun.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Thankfully you not understanding it does not automatically mean it does not make sense. These are two different things entirely.



Speak for yourself. That might be YOUR motivation. The motivations for choosing or partaking in any hobby differ massively across people however. For example (1 of a long long list) some people might take one up because although they are not interested in it, they wish to avail of some benefit of it. For example a doctor who suggests a patient take up painting in order to relax them. Or someone with no interest in Dance who joins a salsa class to meet women.

So by your criteria this would not be a "hobby" because the motivation for engaging in it does not fit YOUR preconceptions about what peoples motivations should be.

Oh ffs, come on! No doctor says it MUST be painting and there are other ways of meeting people - the people in your examples will pick somethign they do find interesting that meets the same goals.

Summing up: the motives generally differ. Unless you want to really nitpick and pedantic you must be able to see that. If not, you'll just keep on throwning unlikley exapmples like the ones above until one of them just might stick in the belief that that resolves everything, QED.

Either way, we're done here.

nozzferrahhtoo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

No doctor says it MUST be painting and there are other ways of meeting people

Of course there are. These were examples. You do know what examples are right? They are not descriptions of the way things always are, but the way things can be. Just because I gave two examples does not mean that list is exhaustive. Far from it. The point was that there are many reasons to take up a hobby or past time other than simple interest in the pursuit itself.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Summing up: the motives generally differ. Unless you want to really nitpick and pedantic you must be able to see that.

Of course I see it, given that that is my point exactly and you are now making it for me. Yes, motive differ, so excluding "religion" from the set "hobby" based on the motive being different was the reason this pointless tangent began in the first place.

The one being pedantic here however is you not me. My original point was clear, it was you that made an issue out of use of the word "hobby".

To repeat the original point I made before you derailed it therefore: If these people can not afford their little hobby/club/pasttime/engagement/whatever (use whatever word least sets your pedantry off) then they simply should not be engaging in it.

If I can not afford golf balls, I simply would not play golf. If they can not afford their overpriced costumes for attending their little clubhouse, then that is their problem not mine.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Either way, we're done here.

Unlikely given that nozz's first rule of internet forums states that "The likelihood of a user posting again on any thread increases in proportion to the number of times they have indicated they are done with doing so."