No more SW communion/confirmation payments

Gatling

paddy147 wrote: »

And again you are painting every family/child in Ireland with the 1 brush.

Just the ones who's parents scream handout's despite having no problems paying big money to keep there kids in brand name's
And the latest gadgets

paddy147

Gatling wrote: »

Just the ones who's parents scream handout's despite having no problems paying big money to keep there kids in brand name's
And the latest gadgets

So every parent and family in Ireland does that??

Families dont shop wizely and shop with what money that have to work with??

Everyone just goes and buys big brand names no matter what??


Thats what you are saying.

westies4ever

paddy147 wrote: »

read the link above so.;)

what? the one about burning the bond holders? you think there would have been no tax increases if we did. how naive can you be?

and i fail to see the link between bond holders and communion/confirmation grants. this is getting increasingly silly.

Mick ah

paddy147 wrote: »

Last year was that moment for me.when Phil Hogan opened his gob on all these taxes on their way in.


I dont know how anyone can sit easy and take being taxed and taxed and taxed,over and over again.

Yet Mr Kenny and Mr Gilmore will hand over billions upon billions to bond holders and not even bat an eye lid.And hes still doing it..they are still getting their money.


Heres some interesting reading for you

We should have burnt the bondholders....says one of the IMFs own people.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0411/380836-too-much-austerity-in-bailout-imf-mission-chief/

Yeah, lets go burn the bondholders. In fact, why don't we just default on all of our debt. That way when we need to borrow money immediately after we default (you know, because we don't have enough income to cover expenditure) the money markets will definitely loan us more.

kylith

snubbleste wrote: »

Eh no, it was a maximum of €112 for communion events during 2012 and it was abolished completely in the budget in December 2012.
For some reason it was in all over the media this morning. Who knows how or why that happened?

I'd imagine it's because communion season is only kicking off now.

paddy147

westies4ever wrote: »

what? the one about burning the bond holders? you think there would have been no tax increases if we did. how naive can you be?

and i fail to see the link between bond holders and communion/confirmation grants. this is getting increasingly silly.

So 20-30 odd billion euro back in the state instead of going to a bunch of bondholders wouldnt improve anything then??

It wouldnt ease up anything domesticly no??



No one is safe in this country any more.

Innocent kids looking forward to making their communion are being affected.

People with dissabilites are savaged and grants taken from them.

Single parents get hammered.

Self employed people who bust their balls to make a living and then sadly have to fold due to lack of business are basicly told to fcuk off.

SMEs going under every day and no other jobs to be had for these people.

Soup Kitchens have to be opened up because of all this austerity.

Live register going up and predicted to go over 15% next year.


But hey.lets keep paying the germans and give them their billions of euro every few months.



Thats the way Enda,good man indeed.Pander to everyone else and just keep on fcuking your own people over..time and time again.Good man indeed.

Akrasia

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

In fairness, Communions and Confirmations have been so diluted at this stage there's very little religious significance to most families participating in it anyway.

I went to a confirmation 2 weeks ago, my wife's niece, and they forced me to sit through a boring mass and pay the child for the priviledge of doing so.

I'm an atheist, when my first born child is 7 years old, I'm going to force all his cousins to stand in a field in the dark for 2 hours looking through a telescope and they'll have to give my kid an envelope stuffed with cash.

I hate communions and confirmations. the one two weeks ago in a small village near limerick, they booked out the local pubs. All of them for the 'children's' party. The kids were fed as much coke cake and crisps as they could fit in them, while the adults drank their weight in booze.

It was an absolute disgrace, some of the children didn't leave the pub until almost 1am. At 8 or 9pm they put on a kareoke 'for the children' and the MC, a middle aged woman croaking into the microphone, on more than a few occasions made comments to the crowd to the effect of 'Get that drink into you, the drunker you are, the better you'll sound'
This was at a party allegedly put on for primary school children.

Oryx

The kids make a grand few bob from their communion. Let their parents tax that to cover what it cost.

Ray Palmer

I think people don't get the social issue on people with little money. They are actually bothered by not having a show of wealth. It isn't logical by any means but it is a social stigma.

Look at the runners on many homeless people and you will see they are quite expensive. A friend of mine works with them and they will go out of their way to get money to buy new runners over getting a bed in a hostel.

While to many people not in the situation it seems madness and we may think of junkies being rock bottom they actually have their own hierarchy and signs of poverty. The same applies to many groups and is no less applied in poorer groups. Nobody wants to be on the bottom rung of their social group.

BTW, it was not just for catholic ceremonies and other groups were paid too.

It is right it was removed.

Mick ah

paddy147 wrote: »

So 20-30 odd billion euro back in the state instead of going to a bunch of bondholders wouldnt improve anything then??

It wouldnt ease up anything domesticly no??



No one is safe in this country any more.

Innocent kids looking forward to making their communion are being affected.

People with dissabilites are savaged and grants taken from them.

Single parents get hammered.

Self employed people who bust their balls to make a living and then sadly have to fold due to lack of business are basicly told to fcuk off.

SMEs going under every day and no other jobs to be had for these people.

Soup Kitchens have to be opened up because of all this austerity.

Live register going up and predicted to go over 15% next year.


But hey.lets keep paying the germans and give them their billions of euro every few months.



Thats the way Enda,good man indeed.

Oh, and not making the payments will fix things? Get real. The bottom line is this: Play by the rules, or don't play at all.

We the people fúcked this country royally. How about we shut up moaning the situation and actually try and fix things. There are no magic bullets.

Getting rid of this payment for an expected expense is one step toward fixing the mess we're in. If the kids are really that upset by not getting a new dress for the occasion then things need to be examined. Is it about faith and spirituality or is it about spending money that isn't your's.

paddy147

Mick ah wrote: »

Oh, and not making the payments will fix things? Get real. The bottom line is this: Play by the rules, or don't play at all.

We the people fúcked this country royally. How about we shut up moaning the situation and actually try and fix things. There are no magic bullets.

Getting rid of this payment for an expected expense is one step toward fixing the mess we're in. If the kids are really that upset by not getting a new dress for the occasion then things need to be examined. Is it about faith and spirituality or is it about spending money that isn't your's.

Mr Kenny and Mr Gilmore should get real,and very very fast too.


Hang on though...didnt Mr Kenny tell us all live on TV that...."You are not to blame for this"????


Hhmmm I think he did.

Well if not our fault Enda,then stop making us all pay for it.

Grow a set of balls and tell the bondholders to fcuk off,that they aint getting their money back anynmore.

Thats what happens when you have a gamble and lose.


Oh no but wait though,you cant do that,can you......because you completely fcuked that up too.:rolleyes:







On that note,I,ll bid you all a good afternoon.


Thanks for a lively debate

donegal_road

my cousin over-heard this in Dublin a couple of years ago..

'.. we were running late at the hairdressers, so we skipped the church and went straight to the restaurant'

That was a woman referring to her daughter's confirmation day.



*I wonder will this latest cut mean less people making their first communion and confirmation?

westies4ever

Yeah because its all Enda's fault isnt it? Nothing to do with the previous governments or the banks. or the global econominc crises for that matter. :rolleyes:

I suspect you're not even all that bothered about the communion/confirmation grant and are just on here to have a rant about how unfair life is. well poor you.

kylith

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I think people don't get the social issue on people with little money. They are actually bothered by not having a show of wealth. It isn't logical by any means but it is a social stigma.

Look at the runners on many homeless people and you will see they are quite expensive. A friend of mine works with them and they will go out of their way to get money to buy new runners over getting a bed in a hostel.

While to many people not in the situation it seems madness and we may think of junkies being rock bottom they actually have their own hierarchy and signs of poverty. The same applies to many groups and is no less applied in poorer groups. Nobody wants to be on the bottom rung of their social group.

BTW, it was not just for catholic ceremonies and other groups were paid too.

It is right it was removed.

I get the social stigma of being obviously poor, but those homeless people are being stupid: I will not give money to a beggar who is wearing more expensive clothes or shoes than I am. I shop in Pennys, and I'm sure as hell not giving any of what little I have to subsidise someone else's social standing via spending a week's rent in Footlocker, and I'd imagine that a lot of people would feel the same way.

paddy147

westies4ever wrote: »

Yeah because its all Enda's fault isnt it? Nothing to do with the previous governments or the banks. or the global econominc crises for that matter. :rolleyes:

I suspect you're not even all that bothered about the communion/confirmation grant and are just on here to have a rant about how unfair life is. well poor you.

Yep,they all have to struggle by on their massively inflated salaries and pensions.

But yet even though "its not our fault"........the innocent people and kids of Ireland are being absolutely hammed for it.and forced to pay for it all now.



Ah well,sure maybe the funeral grant will be the next allowence to go......who knows...




:pac::D

VinLieger

donegal_road wrote: »

my cousin over-heard this in Dublin a couple of years ago..

'.. we were running late at the hairdressers, so we skipped the church and went straight to the restaurant'

That was a woman referring to her daughter's confirmation day.



*I wonder will this latest cut mean less people making their first communion and confirmation?

This is the attiutude that is the problem, now i dont think everyone like that was receving the grant but maybe the removal of the grant will push the church to take back control of the ceremony and stop the commercialisation of it, and if it means more kids dont make their communions/confirmations i have no problem with that either, but that last part is just me being a selfish agnostic

paddy147

Have a nice day folks

wolfpawnat

Though I do not agree with the SW having to pay for things like that. It will hit poorer families and will instill deep resentment in children. If ever there was a way to show class-ism among children. Uniforms should be mandatory now to prevent young children being made feel shíte for things beyond their control.

Skid X

paddy147 wrote: »

So when is it time to say we pay too much tax??

When do you stop and say feck it,Im not going to pay any more taxes to this country?

If I had known it existed before it was reduced and then scrapped, I would have said "When the Social Welfare is handing out grants for Communions and Confirmations"

wexie

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Though I do not agree with the SW having to pay for things like that. It will hit poorer families and will instill deep resentment in children. If ever there was a way to show class-ism among children. Uniforms should be mandatory now to prevent young children being made feel shíte for things beyond their control.

And yes...that sucks for the kids, but should it not be up to the parents to teach them to deal with this? Because you know what : Life ain't fair and if it's not communion dresses it'll be something else.

One family might go on holidays to the Burj Al Arab in Dubai every Easter while the other family can't afford to paint hard boiled eggs. How do you propose to deal with this?

Or the fact that some parents might collect their kids in a brand new Merc while the other family has to make do with a 18 year old Fiat. Do you really think that the communion dress is going to make the difference?

topper75

They should all be make take summer jobs down the mines like I had to. Slaved for months but it was worth it. I still take it out of the wardrobe and try it on from time to time. :pac: rocking out, Angus Young style.

Lots saying they are glad it's gone. I'm shocked such a grant ever existed.

wolfpawnat

wexie wrote: »

And yes...that sucks for the kids, but should it not be up to the parents to teach them to deal with this? Because you know what : Life ain't fair and if it's not communion dresses it'll be something else.

One family might go on holidays to the Burj Al Arab in Dubai every Easter while the other family can't afford to paint hard boiled eggs. How do you propose to deal with this?

Or the fact that some parents might collect their kids in a brand new Merc while the other family has to make do with a 18 year old Fiat. Do you really think that the communion dress is going to make the difference?

Children do not understand economics, salaries and the like, they will only know that a day where they are all supposed to be the same, some children will have lovely new dresses and they will have whatever their parents can afford. Hence why I said they should all do it in uniforms, so that they are all the same.

I remember never going on holidays as a child, I never thought it was economics, all I thought was it wasn't fair, I was just as good as them. I never realised their parents had more money. Kids don't think like that at 4-8 years old. A smart 9 year old may click it, but how is a young child supposed to know?

Menas

Kids know from a pretty early age where they stand socially. Every Birthday or Christmas will see the richer kids get better presents then most average poor kids.
Of course there are poor kids whose parents will try to spoil their kids at the cost of some other essentials.

So the state giving money to help poorer kids feel socially included at Communion time does not make sense to me.
Hopefully the stopping of this grant will be one small step towards the normalization of these occasions. They have gotten way out of hand over the last 2 decades.
I would love if we could get to the situation where going over the top on occasions like this was frowned upon by society and became socially unacceptable but somehow I fear this will never happen.

HondaSami

McLoughlin wrote: »

Now make it compulsory to make it in school uniforms.

Confirmation is made in school uniform, The Communion dress is part of the tradition which should not be stopped imo.

Ranicand

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Children do not understand economics, salaries and the like, they will only know that a day where they are all supposed to be the same, some children will have lovely new dresses and they will have whatever their parents can afford. Hence why I said they should all do it in uniforms, so that they are all the same.

I remember never going on holidays as a child, I never thought it was economics, all I thought was it wasn't fair, I was just as good as them. I never realised their parents had more money. Kids don't think like that at 4-8 years old. A smart 9 year old may click it, but how is a young child supposed to know?

Well if children can not understand the economics of it they sure as hell won't understand the religious part of it.

Being Catholic and Christian making our communion is suppose to be about becoming one with God and Jesus.

A conformation is suppose to be for older children who NOW UNDERSTAND the religion confirming they wish to be part of it.

As Christians we are suppose to believe that Jesus accepted a horrific death to pay for our sins so we would not burn in Hell for all eternity.

Now I know people will jump on my post say this is religious bunk.

My question back is why should the state fund fancy outfits for children to participate in a ceremony they either don't understand or think is bunk?

Lollipops23

HondaSami wrote: »

Confirmation is made in school uniform, The Communion dress is part of the tradition which should not be stopped imo.

Not in all schools it isn't. My principal had a thing about not letting us try to out-bling each other, so we had our uniforms on, but other schools in the area were let wear what they liked.

My cousin grew up in Bray and she made her communion in a robe, changing into her dress afterwards for visiting and dinner etc. At least gives people the option of how they want to deal with it.

wolfpawnat

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Children do not understand economics, salaries and the like, they will only know that a day where they are all supposed to be the same, some children will have lovely new dresses and they will have whatever their parents can afford. Hence why I said they should all do it in uniforms, so that they are all the same.

I remember never going on holidays as a child, I never thought it was economics, all I thought was it wasn't fair, I was just as good as them. I never realised their parents had more money. Kids don't think like that at 4-8 years old. A smart 9 year old may click it, but how is a young child supposed to know?

So your argument is that in order to prevent a little girl from being upstaged at a communion, the government should provide? For serious?

rainbow kirby

Good riddance tbh - if parents want little Jimmy or Jenny to go through religious ceremonies that's their problem, it shouldn't be on the state to pay for them, particularly when the payment favours members of one particular faith who have more ceremonies when their children are young than others.

phasers

My communion dress was so awesome. My Mam wouldnt let me have an umbrella though, she said they were common

Ranicand

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Good riddance tbh - if parents want little Jimmy or Jenny to go through religious ceremonies that's their problem, it shouldn't be on the state to pay for them, particularly when the payment favours members of one particular faith who have more ceremonies when their children are young than others.

Well this was founded as a Catholic state so I would vote for a compromise.

Half the grant and instead of giving it to the family the child could nominate the money to a charity of their choice.

This would instill the true meaning of Christianity and I am sure the little mites would be vary happy.:D:D